crimping question

[XWrench3]

i just got a couple of boxes of gas checks today. i have lee sizers. do you guys run the bullet through the sizer nose up (which seems like that is the wrong way as far as the gas check is concerned), or base first? base first seems like it would secure the gas check better, but on pointed rifle bullets, it may mess up the point. 2 of the three that i will be doing are flat nose boolits, so the nose won't be damaged on those. the 30 cal rifle boolit, is a different story.

[jdgabbard]

Always nose first. That is the way it was designed to size boolits. Just seat the checks on the base of the boolit first, then sit them on the ram and push right on thru. It will work wonderfullly.

[docone31]

I agree, from my experience, it works well.

[XWrench3]

also, should i have to tap the checks on with a small hammer? if i just set it on the bottom, and push it through, it does not seat all of the way. there is a noticable difference between the ones i tap on, and the ones i just set in place.

[peter nap]

Does it matter if I lube before adding the GC?

[XWrench3]

when using the lee sizer, they want you to tumble lube them with lee liquid alox. then let them dry before sizing. which is what i did on my 44 pistol boolits. my .30 cal rifle boolits, i thined out the lla 25% so there was a lighter coating, once they have chex, i will lube them again, which you have to do anyway.

[peter nap]

when using the lee sizer, they want you to tumble lube them with lee liquid alox. then let them dry before sizing. which is what i did on my 44 pistol boolits. my .30 cal rifle boolits, i thined out the lla 25% so there was a lighter coating, once they have chex, i will lube them again, which you have to do anyway.

What about pan lubing?

[atr]

some of my boolits dont seat the gas check well so I have to tap them on first,,,this is only for certain boolits the others seat the gas check without have to tap them on first

[lurch]

also, should i have to tap the checks on with a small hammer? if i just set it on the bottom, and push it through, it does not seat all of the way. there is a noticable difference between the ones i tap on, and the ones i just set in place.

For decent accuracy, you want the checks seated uniformly. If they are not getting uniformly seated and crimped by the action of pushing them through the sizer die, you need to seat them before sizing. I'm not sure I'd use a hammer but if you're careful it should work. Try standing the boolit with a check on the bottom on a solid surface. Push down on the boolit to seat the check. If they are pretty stubborn, take a small wood block and push down on the nose until the check seats. Then size.

Your checks may be hard as well and could benefit from annealing. I spread them out on a tray and stick them in a toaster oven set as high as it will go for a few minutes and then let them cool. If you do anneal, try seating them as you size again to see if that will work with the softer check.

[peter nap]

Your checks may be hard as well and could benefit from annealing. I spread them out on a tray and stick them in a toaster oven set as high as it will go for a few minutes and then let them cool. If you do anneal, try seating them as you size again to see if that will work with the softer check.

I thought you had to quench to anneal copper (The opposite of steel)?

[outdoorfan]

I have a few Lee sizers, and I can't get any of them to seat/crimp gas checks uniformally when running the boolits through nose-first. I tried a honing out the taper of the die a bit to make it smoother, but they still don't work worth a darn. So...., I end up running the boolits through nose-first first to size them. Then I run them back through base-first to seat the checks, and then nose-first again after smearing some lube on them. If pan lubing, then size before pan lubing. I've only been doing this 2-3 months, and I'm already looking for a real lube/sizer. The Lee sizers have their place, though.

[geargnasher]

I thought you had to quench to anneal copper (The opposite of steel)?

That's true.

Use a 7/8" -14tpi bolt threaded into the top of the press to seat the checks against. May blunt the nose if not a fn style, use a top punch or seating punch on the boolit's nose, put check on base of boolit, put boolit on sizing die bottom punch, press whole assembly against the bolt to firmly and SQUARELY seat the check.

Hornady checks tend to "crimp" when sized, so after seating all your checks, just switch the bolt to the sizer die and ram 'em through.

Gear.

[Nora]

I've only used Hornady checks. Once in a wile I get a stubborn one that won't seat by just pushing. My method is to just give it a slight rap on my bench, holding it by the nose.

Defiantly nose first.

Nora

[lurch]

I thought you had to quench to anneal copper (The opposite of steel)?

No, you don't have to. You can, but it's not necessary. Try google for "anneal copper" and if you read enough, you'll see. Cases are the same - quench or not, heating the neck/mouth up is what does the softening.

[snaggdit]

Well, if you look at the periodic table you will see that copper is in the same column as silver and gold. I had a class in jewelry making in college and we worked silver (and bronze) a lot. If it got hard (from work hardening) we heated it dull red with the torch and let it cool. Back to dead soft. I would assume copper is the same.

http://www.elementsdatabase.com/

[dromia]

If you have consistent problems seating checks then you should look to your mould.

Firstly check the base of the boolit for flash, a fine rim of flash on the boolit base will stop checks from snapping on and is a sign of a poorly fitting sprue plate.

Secondly ensure that your boolits are round, unless you are specifically beagling, this could be sign of the mould blocks not quiet closing properly and increasing the diameter of the boolit thus the check not fitting.

When a mould is out of spec, read Lee here, I enlarge to checks by putting a suitable size ball bearing or ball pein hammer on the check and tapping with a hammer, that opens the check up enough to fit. Annealing helps with this.

[Bret4207]

Dromia tells it true. Your checks should fit the shank before you size. If they don't you need to address it. Sometimes simply scraping with your thumbnail will do it, other times you ahve to anneal, open the check and do all sorts of stuff.

I don;t lube mine before sizing all the time. You can run lots through dry, other just need a brief roll on the case lube pad, most respond well toa simple spray lube- soap and water, PAM cooking spray, WD-40, plain kerosene in a pressurized spray canister. All you need is a tiny bit.

[wallenba]

I tumble lube mine, then run them thru the sizer wet, then lube again and dry, works well and I don't have to wait a second time on the drying. It's a bit messier but it saves time. Best if you forego sitting them on the ram because they slip around while wet, and just hold them up in the mouth of the die with your fingertip, and raise the ram.

[runfiverun]

glad i got stars.
i just drop the boolit in, set a g/c on the base, and push down on the lever .the g/c is seated and the boolit is sized and lubed. if i want a nice square base with no dimples, i use a piece of copper rod or a screw with the head ground to the appropriate size to push the boolit all the way out. and do another.
the only g/c's that have given me any problems have been some 41's. and those i just push a little flair into ,with a rod i ground to the size necessary.

[blackthorn]

To aneal steel:---heat and let it air-cool. To harden steel:---heat and quench in cold water, oil etc.

To aneal brass/copper:---heat it and cool it. It makes no difference whether it is air-cooled or quenched. Brass is hardened by working it (fire, size, load, fire, size, load, fi---). The reason we heat brass cases after anealing is to imediately stop the process to prevent the lower body of the case from becoming soft! Once brass is anealed, the only way to harden it up again is to "work" it!

[XWrench3]

these are hornady chex. and both my 44 and 45's do it. i haven't tried my 30's yet, as i forgot to order a sizer for that caliber *DOH!* anyway, i figured out that a quick little slap with a remnant from my sprue taping dowel works pretty well to seat them onto the boolits. with a much less chance of boggering up the nose of the boolit. i will have to look at both of (maybe all 3) my gas chex molds, to see if there is something peculiar about them. also, i tried a small peice of aluminum between the nose of the boolit, and the bottom of the sizer when it was installed in the press. that works pretty good as well. if these were not flat nose boolits, i would be worried about the point doing that. maybe a peice of wood, if i can not find something with the molds. if anything, i am happy they are tight, and not loose. i have read about that, better tight than loose and falling off!

[qajaq59]

I thought you had to quench to anneal copper (The opposite of steel)? As far as I know it's the heating, not the cooling that anneals them.

[Bret4207]

these are hornady chex. and both my 44 and 45's do it. i haven't tried my 30's yet, as i forgot to order a sizer for that caliber *DOH!* anyway, i figured out that a quick little slap with a remnant from my sprue taping dowel works pretty well to seat them onto the boolits. with a much less chance of boggering up the nose of the boolit. i will have to look at both of (maybe all 3) my gas chex molds, to see if there is something peculiar about them. also, i tried a small peice of aluminum between the nose of the boolit, and the bottom of the sizer when it was installed in the press. that works pretty good as well. if these were not flat nose boolits, i would be worried about the point doing that. maybe a peice of wood, if i can not find something with the molds. if anything, i am happy they are tight, and not loose. i have read about that, better tight than loose and falling off!

Take a good look at the GC shank, use a magnifier. See if there aren't bits of flash or maybe a "rim" around the shank. The "rim" comes from the sprue plate not fitting right and the flash comes from the mould not always closing right. In a perfect the world the GC shank is clean and round, it doesn't always happen that way. I suppose you could make a tool to uniform the GC shank. One of the guys have a pic of one he made that would work.

Also take a good magnified look at you checks You'll see how they fit and why the above interferes with them fitting right.

[44man]

My RD boolit has a tight fit to the checks. I use a Lee boolit sizer base punch in the press and made a seat plug to fit the nose with epoxy in an RCBS seat die. Set the boolit in the gas check and press it on the boolit.
I then hand lube with Felix and push it through a Lee die.