Winchester 1876 .45-60 WCF

[Cannoneer]

Since this is a big bore LEVER gun, it should fit right in here. This is for those Pards that have gotten or are getting the Chapparel 1876 Winchester in .45-60 WCF.

First, if you are modifying .45/70 cases, you have to shorten your .45-70 cases from 2.10 inches to 1.88 inches. I used a Lyman case trimmer with a .45 Caliber pilot and a dial caliper to shorten one case to 1.88 inch.

I had a .45 Colt case trimming die that is used by using an RCBS press, a hacksaw and fine cut file. Lubricating the shortened .45-70 case, I ran it into this trim die until it was flush with the top. I then gave it a couple of passes with the file to true up the mouth.

Once that was done, I made sure that the die's locking nut was tightened down so it would not move.

The rest of the 89 cases I lubed and ran into the trim die until they protruded through the top of the die. I then used the hack saw to cut off the excess and the file to true up the mouth.

After I had all the cases I wanted, I champhered the case mouths and opened the flash hole to 3/32 inch.

At this point in time, the cases are a bit bottle necked in shape. I then ran them up through a .45/70 Sizing Die, then through a .45/70 case mouth belling die to set them up for a .458 bullet.

After seating Remington Large Rifle Magnum Primers, I loaded the cases with a variety of .458 bullets and a 50 grain by volume Hogdon 777. An NEI 390 grain Gas Checked Model, a Rapine 405 grain Hollow Based bullet and a Lee 405 grain RNFP were used to fire form the cases. To crimp them I first ran them SLOWLY up a .45 Colt Taper Crimp die.

Knowing that I was going to have to have a real crimping die and a sizing die for the .45/60 I CALLED Lee Precision using their contact number from their web site. They had the dies on hand and I ordered a sizing die and a seating/crimping die.

This did not prove to be a practical solution as the crimp die would not crimp. I may have trimmed the cases to short, or their die was not as precise as they claim. Anyway, I had a Lee .45-70 factory crimp die that I was not using, so I filed the sliding collet shorter, trying to crimp every few strokes until it would crimp the cases as slick as a whistle.

After Firing the rifle with my modified cases, I reloaded with the same bullets and primers, but reduced the powder charge to 40 grains, by volume, of 777, and used the new sizing die and seating die and the modified FCD. I took it to the range again and had a blast as I made an old frying pan dance at 100 yards with those heavy bullets.

I've reloaded a batch using some smokeless loads and some Hornady 350 grain JSP's and some Montana Swaged 300 grain RNFP's in .458 diameter.

Recoil using 12 Grains of Unique was very mild, compared to the 777 loads. The Hornady 350 grain JSP's were as accurate as any of the lead bullets even when using 777 or Pinacle as the propellant.

I checked the rifling and it is faster than the originals. It came out to 1:22 inches.

All in all this 1876 Winchester clone is a great rifle for Cowboy Long Range matches.

[Freightman]

Good deal! Go to Harbor Freight and get the little mini chop saw $29.97 sure beats a hacksaw. I am a little jealous as the 1976 in 45/60 is a future must have rifle, have fun and be safe.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
I used a dremel with the thin cut off blade to do the first "chop" then finished on my rcbs case trimmer. I made a stem that "chucks" into my 1/2 " drill.
The books say to use .356 cast with the old Winney's... that may becuase after the first shot with BLACK a .458+ would not chamber. My winny will chamber .462 boolits and shoots those the best. I have settled on 22 grains of 5744 with the .462. I took a 350 grain Lee mold and lapped it out to .462.
Some years ago Lee ran a batch of 45-60 dies and that has made my shooting much easier.
The 45-60 lacks case capacity to load HEAVY boolits with BLACK and still have a 1000 fps. 400 grains is the heaviest I can see as viable. Plus the 1876 action (togles) is in the WEAK area of rifle actions so MUST be treated with soft loads. BUT I would tackle ANY critter east of BIG MUDDY as l;ond as I can get to 100 yards of the shot.Smartest thing Mr. Winchester did was BUY Mr. Brownings patents and build a REAL Powerhouse rifle.. the 1886.
But if you like all sorts of matalic clinks and clunks while working an action (reminds me of the racket the breechblock on the 105mm M60A1 made) then a 1876 is a fine HEAVY tool to lug around.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

You can also neck size and expand (bell) with 45 colt or acp dies, I don't often crimp 45-60 for a highwall clone so I don't recall if those pistol dieswill crimp the 45-60. BvT

[jnovotny]

I have one of these rifles and have yet to find a good shooting load. Would help if I had time to really work one up. But have embarked on the dreaded honeydew list. Am fixing up the 100+ year old house we currently live in.

[Grapeshot]

As Quoted from missionary 5155 --- "Good evening
The 45-60 lacks case capacity to load HEAVY boolits with BLACK and still have a 1000 fps. 400 grains is the heaviest I can see as viable. Plus the 1876 action (togles) is in the WEAK area of rifle actions so MUST be treated with soft loads. BUT I would tackle ANY critter east of BIG MUDDY as l;ond as I can get to 100 yards of the shot.Smartest thing Mr. Winchester did was BUY Mr. Brownings patents and build a REAL Powerhouse rifle.. the 1886.
But if you like all sorts of matalic clinks and clunks while working an action (reminds me of the racket the breechblock on the 105mm M60A1 made) then a 1876 is a fine HEAVY tool to lug around. "



I found this over in the 1876 forum in "CAS CITY" http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,17995.0.html


I don't know how many of you fellers have read this, but this excerpt from Bill Hockett's 2002 article on the Centennial Winchester explains the strength testing that Winchester performed on the new model. it is a bit of am eye opener.

"The Model 1876 is the only repeating rifle that had successful, documented use in the northern plains buffalo slaughter. Earlier repeating rifles such as the Henry, Spencer, and Winchester Models of 1866 and 1873 may have seen limited use, but only the Model 1876 was considered by hunters as powerful enough to do the job against the big woolies. The strength of the Model 1876 rifle and the .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge was tested by Winchester in the late 1870s. The factory conducted tests on the strength and reliability of the action to answer concerns by customers. These tests will astound collectors and shooters who have stated the Model 1876's toggle link action is "weak." In response to a letter sent to the company by Charles Hallock, Esquire, of Forest & Stream magazine, Oliver Winchester responded by telling about the tests the factory accomplished on the 1876 rifle. He indicated that engineers first started the tests by removing one of the toggle links and fired 20 rounds (this was with .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge with 350 grain bullet) with no effect. They restored the missing link then went through 6 more trials starting with a charge of 105 grains of black powder, behind a 700 grain bullet! The comment "worked well" is noted. They then increased the charge of powder to 165 grains behind 3 bullets (1,150 grains) and that "worked well." From there, they increased the powder charge to 203 grains and added more bullets until they reached 1,750 grains of lead (five 350 grain bullets). This also "worked well." Finally, they added one more bullet, bringing the total weight to 2,100 grains, and things began to happen. The comment was, "Breech pin slightly bent. Arm working stiff." The seventh and final test was again 203 grains of powder but this time six Martini bullets weighing 480 grains each (2,880 grains) were used. "The charge bent the breech pin, blew out the side plates, split the frame and otherwise disabled the arm," was the comment. Oliver Winchester noted that in this seventh trial, the shell had burst into fragments and the escape of gas at the breech did the damage."

[missionary5155]

Good morning
That "Test" conducted by Winchester was about as much of a publicity hoopla as we see today when a new cartridge is introduced or a new shooting system is assembled.
Yes the 45-60 can kill a Buff but so can a .22 rimfire. I have read enough Buff Books to know the Buff Hunters did not prefer the 1876 winny to any available rifle... unless they were in the "Horse Running variety" who shot buff up close from that galloping horse.
Mr. Winchester started with NEW well inspected parts... my 120+ year old rifle does not benefit from that availability of NEW parts. And once you stress IRON to the forces involved of 120 years of shooting fatigue starts its action. So yes Winchester showed the nation his rifle could safely fire the 45-75 cartridge with a good safety margin built in. Would I take my 45-60 out to hunt griz or clean out a 400 animal buff heard ??? If it was all I had sure.... BUT I still would rather have a 1886 made of steel and loaded to its capabilities.

Thanks Grapeshot for including the article. What 1876 are you shooting ? They are a pack of fun and I still get a chuckle as the lifter on my 45-60 makes the drop to bottom position. I am headed out tommorrow to fire some 300 grain FN boolits I addapted from the Lyman 457122 HP and bumped to .462. So far they are the most accurate from my rifle BUT whether with Black or smokeless 6" at 50 yards just does not satisfy me.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

One thing left unsaid on the 45-60 in the form of both old rifles and the run of Italian clones is that the old bore/groove dimensions were said to vary, and I know that if you check the Cimarron site, where they give dimensions, the groove is listed as .450. Best to slug the barrel. BvT

[KirkD]

I started out making my own .45-60 brass from .45-70, but being short on time, ended up buying my brass. My recommendation is the new .45-60 brass that Chaparral is making in Europe. It can be purchased here http://www.marstar.ca/ammo-etc/new-brass.shtm The price is $48.95 in Canadian dollars, which is slightly cheaper in $US and even though it is a Canadian company, they ship anywhere in the world.

For dies, I use the Lyman .45-60 3-die set. It does an excellent job of crimping.

My favorite load is 26.2 grains of 5744 under a 300 grain cast GC bullet sized to .458, which gives 1,278 fps and a 5-shot group at 100 yards of 1 & 3/4" out of my original '76.

[Grapeshot]

Good morning
Thanks Grapeshot for including the article. What 1876 are you shooting ? They are a pack of fun and I still get a chuckle as the lifter on my 45-60 makes the drop to bottom position. I am headed out tommorrow to fire some 300 grain FN boolits I addapted from the Lyman 457122 HP and bumped to .462. So far they are the most accurate from my rifle BUT whether with Black or smokeless 6" at 50 yards just does not satisfy me.


I shoot a Chaparal I purchased three years ago. I've been having great results with bullets running .457 to .458 in diameter. My 1876 has a twist of 1:22 and will stabilize bullets from 300 grains to 405 grains. I have been getting real good results with 55 grains of 2Fg and a hollow based 405 grain .458 bullet.:cbpour:

[Four Fingers of Death]

While strength was an issue, I thought that cartridge overall length was the main problem. Where did they stick all the powder (almost 1/3 rd of a pound) during those tests?

[Grapeshot]

While strength was an issue, I thought that cartridge overall length was the main problem. Where did they stick all the powder (almost 1/3 rd of a pound) during those tests?


Winchester loaded a primed case and poured the powder down the muzzle along with the bullets. Sort of like an in line muzzle loader.

[missionary5155]

Greetings Grapeshot
I have one of those HB boolit molds. I will have to give it a try.
My Winny has a larger bore at .462 and maybe a snakes breath. So far my best load was 26 grains of 5744 under the 300gr FN unsized (.462). It shot into a nice round 2.5" hole 10 rounds. I tried a 350 grain earlier and the accuracy was dismal with 2F, 3F, Pyrodex, and 5744. was gonna try Unique but the 300g (Modified) was doing better and the flat nose fit the length restiction much better.
Going to up the 5744 load to 26 and if it gets better stay there. I just cannot see pushing a 120 year old rifle when I can get out a 45-70 anytime.