A little help with 45/70

[peter nap]

I asked about the Lee HB bullet mold on lever actions and phrased the question poorly.

I have the Lee 350 gr mold and they shoot pretty well in my Guide gun.

I still like heavy bullets at moderate velocity though.
I'm trying to decide between the Lee HB 405 GR
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/bullets/459405hb.gif
459-405-HB

It seems the HB will fill out the Microgroove barrel better, but I may be wrong.

I really like the 500 grainer...
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/bullets/c457500f.gif
C457-500-F

But I'm not sure it will stabalize in the Marlin.

Any thoughts on this and suggestions?

[2Tite]

Just one thought..............Will the 500 gr feed through the Marlin?
It would be a real thumper.......on both ends, if it does feed.

[canuck4570]

I have a ruger no 1 in 4570
the twist if not mistaken is 1 in 20
it stabilize the sacoe 545 gr... at low and high velocity

[peter nap]

Just one thought..............Will the 500 gr feed through the Marlin?
It would be a real thumper.......on both ends, if it does feed.

At the risk of assuming....I think it will feed 2tite. Beartooth has a 525 grainer that they claim to be the max that will feed through the Marlin.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/images/bullets/BTB-45R-525gWLNGC2.jpg

[canuck4570]

the saeco 540 gr wont feed in the marlin my friend has one and no go
and your cf 457 look's very similar in shape....

[peter nap]

the saeco 540 gr wont feed in the marlin my friend has one and no go
and your cf 457 look's very similar in shape....

Might be a moot question anyway. I just PM'ed Buckshot to see if he could open the meplat up on the 405.

That might keep me happy...for a week or two when I come up with another hairbrained idea:roll:

[BABore]

The BT 525 grain boolit feeds because the nose length is correct for the Marlin. The Lee boolit depicted is not. To get it to feed you will have to seat it deeply. Most likely you will be well above the top band and onto the BR nose. It can be used if you use a Lee FC die to secure it so recoil doesn't drive it forward. Most likely it will be sitting on a compressed charge, so you won't have to worry about it getting pushed into the case. Your biggest concern will be if the Lee mold drops a big enough diameter boolit for you gun. Most of the GG's do best with a 0.460 to 0.462 boolit.

I have shot several of the 550ish, lever gun boolits through my guide guns and regular 45-70's. H-322 and H335 both shine with these heavies. The recoil impulse changes when you get above 450 or so grains. Instead of a hard, fast whack, you get into more of a shotgun-like, hard push. Kinda gave up on boolits this heavy. IMO they are more a novelty or boutique boolit. They impress your friends and are fun to shoot ocassionally, but they have limited hunting value. While they penetrate to no end, they loose velocity quickly. You can usually get them up to 1,450 to 1,550 out of the GG. The 405 to 430 grain boolits give you the most bang for the buck in terms of velocity, penetration, and drop. I've got several in that range on my site. I will be soon adding a 460 grain GC design for leverguns too.

[peter nap]

The BT 525 grain boolit feeds because the nose length is correct for the Marlin. The Lee boolit depicted is not. To get it to feed you will have to seat it deeply. Most likely you will be well above the top band and onto the BR nose. It can be used if you use a Lee FC die to secure it so recoil doesn't drive it forward. Most likely it will be sitting on a compressed charge, so you won't have to worry about it getting pushed into the case. Your biggest concern will be if the Lee mold drops a big enough diameter boolit for you gun. Most of the GG's do best with a 0.460 to 0.462 boolit.

I have shot several of the 550ish, lever gun boolits through my guide guns and regular 45-70's. H-322 and H335 both shine with these heavies. The recoil impulse changes when you get above 450 or so grains. Instead of a hard, fast whack, you get into more of a shotgun-like, hard push. Kinda gave up on boolits this heavy. IMO they are more a novelty or boutique boolit. They impress your friends and are fun to shoot ocassionally, but they have limited hunting value. While they penetrate to no end, they loose velocity quickly. You can usually get them up to 1,450 to 1,550 out of the GG. The 405 to 430 grain boolits give you the most bang for the buck in terms of velocity, penetration, and drop. I've got several in that range on my site. I will be soon adding a 460 grain GC design for leverguns too.

Thanks Babore. I was looking at your site the other day and reading about a bullet you were working on. I'm getting CB overload and CRS to boot, and forgot where you were.:???:

I'll bookmark it this time.

[canuck4570]

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/458-440-GC.jpghttp://http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/458-440-GC.jpg
this a nei bullet
I have that mold may be someone on the site knows if it will feed in the marlin
has a big meplat and short nose
it cast at 475 with gaz check
shot a deer with it at 1100 fps..... very good dropped on the spot was 75 yards away

[JesterGrin_1]

What are you going to hunt with that 45-70 and at what range. These two things will tell you what BOOLIT you need to use.

I have found the RD460-350Gr FPRN GC to be all I would ever need and the drop is not real bad. I did shoot some RD460-425Gr FPRN GC and the drop over the 350 at 100 yards was more than I would like. But then again my shooting range is up to 150 yards.

But I will say you can use any weight BOOLIT you wish and once you decide on a load you can give all of that info to Leopold Scope Company and they can make you a scope with the boolit drop made into it.

No I do not have one too much coin for me lol. :)

[peter nap]

What are you going to hunt with that 45-70 and at what range. These two things will tell you what BOOLIT you need to use.

I have found the RD460-350Gr FPRN GC to be all I would ever need and the drop is not real bad. I did shoot some RD460-425Gr FPRN GC and the drop over the 350 at 100 yards was more than I would like. But then again my shooting range is up to 150 yards.

But I will say you can use any weight BOOLIT you wish and once you decide on a load you can give all of that info to Leopold Scope Company and they can make you a scope with the boolit drop made into it.

No I do not have one too much coin for me lol. :)

Jester, I hunt Whitetail Deer and Black Bear. The 350 is adequate for both but I like larger bullets. Given the shot, I'm a bone buster. I always like to break the shoulder so I don't have to chase it as far.

Range around here is a non issue. a hundred yard shot is extremely rare with most 15 to 40.

I have a peep site on the GG and the only scopes I own are Luepolds. One on my crossbow and one on my .308. Everything else has open sights or peeps.

[GabbyM]

The hollow based bullets are designed for black powder guns where you shoot a smaller bullet than bore diameter. In order to give a loose fit for powder fowling. in a smokeless gun they don't give you much except a pressure limit. After all where is that bullet going to expand to if it's already larger than bore diameter?

Over on Benefit Auctions/Sales thier's a 45-405 grain six cavity up for a site benifit. 462420-GC RE-RUN 405 Grain 45-70 Molds. If'n I were you I'd be all over that. It's a gas check so you can shoot soft lead with stout loads for dramatic terminal effect. You already have a plain based bullet.

[Leftoverdj]

Lee 459-405-HB is an extremely accurate bullet in microgroove barrels. It casts large enough, which some of the other Lee moulds don't. The hollow is quite small and does not lower the pressure limit as far as I can tell. It may allow the base of the bullet to conform to the variations in the barrel if it does anything. Like any other plain base bullet, it does have a pressure limit. 31 grains of either 4198 is the most robust charge I use.

I don't think the meplat matters on deer at 100 yards and under. If it bothers you, either hollow point the bullets after they are cast, or cast soft nose bullets. A fired .380 case holds about the right amount of pure lead. Working very hot and very quickly, pour a case full of lead into the mould and complete the cast with your normal alloy.