Winchester primers

[ETG]

I normally use CCI primers but due to lack of availability I used some Winchester small rifle. I was loading LC 5.56 cases and the primers were seating well below the base of the cartrige (too deep). I've never had this issue with CCI. Has anybody else ran across this before?

[3006guns]

I've used nothing but CCI's myself and no experience with Winchester. Do you have a micrometer? Assuming you've used the same cases with nothing like this before, measure the thickness of both primers. If the difference is really glaring, a call to Winchester might be in order. Could be faulty cups, anvils or perfectly normal for that brand.

I'm only guessing, but with the massive rush to fill primer orders it could be possible that the cups were punched slightly undersized. That's really stretching it though as quality controls are pretty rigid in ammunition manufacture.

[mroliver77]

Just loaded some 5.56 yesterday with older(white box) WSR primers and seen nothing out of the ordinary.
Jay

[Johnw...ski]

I am using Remington 6 1/2 and 7 1/2 primers in my .223 cases.
The primers in LC 08 cases are about .005 below the base, in Remington cases the primers are about .006 below the base. I see no problem with this.
The LC cases were once fired and the primer pockets cleaned, the Remington cases are new.

John

[jonk]

I've used Winchester, CCI, Wolf, Remington, PMC, and S&B primers. I've never seen a primer seat so far below the case that it would be an issue.

[atr]

I use CCI , Winchester and Remington,,,,never had an issue such as yours...however I have miked the primer thicknesses and there is a difference however slight
atr

[GabbyM]

You sure that box does'nt say small pistol on it.

[BABore]

You sure that box does'nt say small pistol on it.

It wouldn't matter. Small rifle and small pistol primers are the same O.D. and height. Large rifle and large pistol primers are the same O.D., but different heights. Cup thickness, between rifle and pistol primers, are also different.

[StarMetal]

Primers are among one the most controlled components during manufacturing. I highly doubt the Winchester primers being off size. I think you have something going on with your priming system AND CCI's are generally harder and larger diameter them other brands....so maybe they just aren't getting seated as deep because of resistance of the mentioned. As an aside Wolf primers seem to fit tighter and when I use my presses priming system I get high primers, whereas with my RCBS hand primer they seat perfect.

Joe

[runfiverun]

does the rifle fire them?
if so they aren't too deep.
i always thought cci's sat too high.

[9.3X62AL]

Most reloading manuals/data recommends that primers be seated slightly below flush with the case head "deck height". WSR primers seat about .003" deeper than this height in my LC 98 cases, and a couple thou deeper in WW commercial cases. All works well in a Mini-14, a bolter 223, and in other rifles past and present. Give your loads a test drive, and in absence of failures to fire or erratic ballistics--I'd say you're good to go.

[johnly]

It wouldn't matter. Small rifle and small pistol primers are the same O.D. and height. Large rifle and large pistol primers are the same O.D., but different heights. Cup thickness, between rifle and pistol primers, are also different.

Are you sure? I think pistol primers are about .005" shorter than rifle primers.

John

[Shiloh]

Just loaded some 5.56 yesterday with older(white box) WSR primers and seen nothing out of the ordinary.
Jay

You still have some of these as well? Mine are from the "Great Klinton Primer Scare"

Shiloh

[mroliver77]

You still have some of these as well? Mine are from the "Great Klinton Primer Scare"

Shiloh

Mine too have been stashed for some years. ;) Makes me cry when I read some of the prices on stuff I have stashed.
Jay

[9.3X62AL]

I told my 18 year old daughter that she was more than 2 Primer Scares old. She understood what that meant, smiled, and asked "Did Carter cause one, too?"

[ETG]

They are small rifle primers. I found an old box with a dozen CCI small rifle primers. Measured them and the Winchester. CCI = .120", Win = .117". I'm reloading LC brass. Haven't had a chance to run out in the desert and try them out yet.

[mroliver77]

Al,
that's funny!!
Jay

[Fugowii]

Primers are among one the most controlled components during manufacturing. I highly doubt the Winchester primers being off size. I think you have something going on with your priming system AND CCI's are generally harder and larger diameter them other brands....so maybe they just aren't getting seated as deep because of resistance of the mentioned. As an aside Wolf primers seem to fit tighter and when I use my presses priming system I get high primers, whereas with my RCBS hand primer they seat perfect.

Joe

Winchester small rifle and small pistol primers are smaller (length) than Remington.

My primer pickup tube barely fits 100 Rem primers whereas there is plenty of space
left when using Winchester. How much? I didn't care, so I didn't measure.

[sabot_round]

That's the reason why I single load!!

[BruceB]

" I highly doubt the Winchester primers being off size." -Joe

Maybe five years ago I bought about 8,000 Winchester Large Rifle primers from Miwall, a large vendor at the Big Reno Show.

These primers were so badly undersize that they wouldn't even stay in NEW cases of some manufactures. I could tap the case-heads against a solid object and the primers would just drop out.

Even in new Winchester-brand brass, they were so loose that there was almost no "feel" whatever when seating the primers. I managed to use these up, but was VERY glad to see the end of them. This batch must have caught the quality-control guy while he was ogling the blonde two aisles over in the plant.

[StarMetal]

As far as primers stacking in a primer tube differently there may be an explanation. I've noticed with different brands that the anvils stick up different heights. The cups are the same sizes. That would explain why you get more Remingtons in the tube then Winchesters.

Joe

[felix]

There are absolutely no guarantees, Joe. Different lots are just that, no matter the product. All primers should be seated by pressure, and you know that. Those that are loose, might imply a different anvil, a different mixture thickness, a different cup material, and on and on. ... felix

[StarMetal]

There are absolutely no guarantees, Joe. Different lots are just that, no matter the product. All primers should be seated by pressure, and you know that. Those that are loose, might imply a different anvil, a different mixture thickness, a different cup material, and on and on. ... felix

Exactly Felix. I'm not sure I would use a primer that fits loose. A gas leak from between the primer and the case, although may not wreck the gun, can cut a pit in the face of your bolt.

Joe

[Texasflyboy]

A gas leak from between the primer and the case, although may not wreck the gun, can cut a pit in the face of your bolt.

You betcha.

Someone in my pile o' interesting things I have a couple of AR-15 bolts from a pal's rifle. Hands down, he's shot more ammo in his lifetime than any 50 of my shooting friends. He's a regular addict. But, reloading is not his "forte" shall we say.

He has some 10,000 5.56 cases, many of which date from the Vietnam era (I see a lot of TW headstamps, that's one you don't see to often anymore). No one can figure out how many times those cases have been loaded. But, the primer pockets are getting sloppy. So sloppy in fact that he gets gas blow-by to the point where it's eroded a crater surrounding the firing pin hole on those two AR bolts I have. The depth of the erosion is quite spectacular.

I may dig those out a post a photo to the thread.

[StarMetal]

You betcha.

Someone in my pile o' interesting things I have a couple of AR-15 bolts from a pal's rifle. Hands down, he's shot more ammo in his lifetime than any 50 of my shooting friends. He's a regular addict. But, reloading is not his "forte" shall we say.

He has some 10,000 5.56 cases, many of which date from the Vietnam era (I see a lot of TW headstamps, that's one you don't see to often anymore). No one can figure out how many times those cases have been loaded. But, the primer pockets are getting sloppy. So sloppy in fact that he gets gas blow-by to the point where it's eroded a crater surrounding the firing pin hole on those two AR bolts I have. The depth of the erosion is quite spectacular.

I may dig those out a post a photo to the thread.

Not long ago I got a truck load, literally, of once fired military 5.56 brass and quite a bit of it is newer TW. Yes there is LC and Win in with it.

Yes seens some AR 15 bolts pitted because of loose primers.

Joe