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View Full Version : .358 105 Grain Wad Cutter - Interested?



garandsrus
04-02-2006, 06:21 PM
Hi,

Would anyone be interested in participating in a group buy of a Lee 6 cavity mould for a 100 or 105 gr full wad cutter? My thoughts are that the mold would be a tumble lube design with a flat base, designed to drop from wheel weights at .358. I don't have a preference as to whether or not there is a "nub" on the front of the bullet.

I would like these to shoot PPC with. I have the Lee semi wad cutter version of this bullet (358-105-SWC) and really like it, but it rips the paper too much for accurate scoring of targets.

I have shot commercially made wad cutters in both 100 and 105 gr. They shot well and produce much less recoil than a 148 gr wad cutter.

If there is interest, I would be willing to run the group buy. I would need help with a drawing to send Lee though.

Your comments would be appreciated...

Thanks,
John

castalott
04-02-2006, 07:48 PM
Hi John! Yep, I'm interested.

I'd like a symetrical design so it could be loaded 'up' or 'down'. Tumble lube is good. A bevel base on each end would be good too.

Dale

Buckshot
04-03-2006, 11:37 PM
..............I'd go for one. You dont have to have a tumble lube design to simply use TL. Just in case you didn't know). I use the Lee 358-148WC in my K38 and M&P TL'd over target loads and they work great.

Heck, for a hundred grainer you could just put one smallish LG smack in the middle and call it good. Especially if aimed at the plinker target crowd.

Whatever you decide is fine with me, I'm in. Can't have enough wadcutters I suspect :-)

.................Buckshot

Lloyd Smale
04-04-2006, 04:15 AM
Im another big fan of that lee 105 swc its probably the most accurate 38 bullet ive found but its doesnt work real well for me for ppc shooting because its hard to load with speed loaders. I would think a full wad cutter would be worse. Id still be up to try it though if it wasnt a tumble lube design. Like was said if you cut it convetionaly you can still tumble lube it if you want. Thats what i do with the swc most of the time anyway.

Willbird
04-04-2006, 05:33 AM
I think TL would be a bad thing, it may be faster for some to lube them, but they would be slower to load because you would have to clean the noses or have the seating depth change drastically. I'd buy one if it had a single lube groove.

Bill

garandsrus
04-04-2006, 09:13 AM
All,

A single lube groove in the middle would be fine.... That's how the commercial bullets I have used were designed.

Any other comments about whether or not to have the "button" on the front of the bullet or a symettrical design? It doesn't matter to me.

I don't have any trouble using a speed loader with full wad cutters in PPC. I think part of the trick is that the cylinder of a "tuned" PPC pistol commonly has a little bit of a radius or chamfer cut into it to allow for easier loading. All of the people I shoot PPC with that use revolvers are using full wad cutters.

It looks like we have five people interested so far. Can someone draw up the bullet so we can make this official?

Thanks!
John

redneckdan
04-04-2006, 09:40 AM
to make chambering easier, seat the boolit slightly below flush and apply a heavier crimp, like slightly radius the case mouth. I do this and they drop right in.

45 2.1
04-04-2006, 04:38 PM
Maybe one of these would be of interest.

Willbird
04-04-2006, 08:40 PM
The only thing I could see the button being needed for is possibly collating the bullets ?? which I don't do anyway. Does the button fitting in a recess in the seating punch help line things up when seating ??

Bill

garandsrus
04-05-2006, 12:04 AM
45 2.1,

Thank you! I think folks would like either of the left hand molds, probably the top one. I have attached a picture of a commercial 105 gr wad cutter I have used next to a 148 gr wad cutter with the "button". I would like the end of the bullet (at least the front) to be a little more square/sharp than what the 105 gr picture shows, if possible, so that it produces a cleaner cut in the target.

If we get enough interest, would you be willing to make a dimensioned drawing that is suitable to Lee?

Willbird - I don't think the button does anything...

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/garandsrus/105grwadcutter2.jpg

Thanks again,
John

Buckshot
04-05-2006, 04:10 AM
...............I think the button is merely a means to determine 'This end up'. Then again, it DOES increase the BC by a solid .00537% :-)

...............Buckshot

David R
04-05-2006, 06:51 AM
Just a .359 piece of lead with a lube groove in it. Think LEE would get it right?

David

45 2.1
04-05-2006, 08:08 AM
Pictured commercial 105 gr wad cutter.
Please measure the length of the commercial 105 gr. wadcutter to the thousandth and post it for me.

I would like the end of the bullet (at least the front) to be a little more square/sharp than what the 105 gr picture shows, if possible, so that it produces a cleaner cut in the target.
It already is.

If we get enough interest, would you be willing to make a dimensioned drawing that is suitable to Lee?
Yes

Bucks Owin
04-05-2006, 05:29 PM
These little "tuna can" boolits can shoot quite well. I ran across an old Lee 358-82 gr mould at a second hand store last summer. They shoot quite well even in .357 cases. I use a cork wad behind them and drive them with Green Dot about 1000 fps...

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I'd be interested in a 105 gr mould.

Dennis

357maximum
04-05-2006, 06:28 PM
Got my eye on this one, wanna see the finished drawing first, but sounds like a winner to me. I like the looks of the upper left drawing alot.

Willbird
04-05-2006, 07:51 PM
Nothing says a guy has to shoot them one at a time either ;-)

Bill

krag35
04-05-2006, 09:10 PM
here we go again :-) I'm in for one. Like the one in the upper left.
krag35

trk
04-05-2006, 09:46 PM
I have a single cavity 358495 Lyman which is about 105-110 gr. Trying it out this weekend in the Wheelen. If it shoots, it'll be great for small critters.

garandsrus
04-05-2006, 11:31 PM
It looks like we have eight folks interested so far, not bad for a couple days... This might just happen!

The light bullets are really nice when you shoot 6 shots in 12 seconds (50 ft) and 12 shots in 20 seconds, with a reload (21 ft). The muzzle doesn't jump much, making it a lot faster to get the sights back on the target.

45 2.1 - The length of the 105 gr bullet varies from .398 to .409 but most of the bullets are .400. It sounds like the concensus is the top left design. Would you suggest a .358 or .359 diameter? I have used both without problems.

John

CSH
04-06-2006, 07:52 AM
I would be in for one of these if it's the upper left design. I would definitely not want a TL design.

45 2.1
04-06-2006, 08:42 AM
Would you suggest a .358 or .359 diameter? I have used both without problems.John

Spec'd at 0.359", we would get that or 0.358" in all probability from LEE.

Bucks Owin
04-06-2006, 12:32 PM
Nothing says a guy has to shoot them one at a time either ;-)

Bill

:-D I hear ya pal! I've played around with stacking two of those 82 gr pills in a .357 case as a short range defense load but haven't been able to get much dispersion even at 25 yds. Another angle I've thought of is one of these tuna cans with a charge of #8 shot in front as a snake load....

FWIW,

Dennis :Fire:

slug
04-06-2006, 06:06 PM
I'd be interested in the upper left design.
It looks like the Saeco 348.

GLL
04-06-2006, 09:35 PM
The two on the right have worked well for me in .38 Special.
Lyman 358101 (right) is 75 grain and Lyman 358425 (second from right) is 110 grain. The little 358101 is great around here for shooting rats out of palm trees.

Jerry


http://fototime.com/FA2B670ED7680C1/standard.jpg

45 2.1
04-08-2006, 09:18 AM
Heres your boolit

45 2.1
04-16-2006, 04:57 PM
Has It Died?

David R
04-16-2006, 07:11 PM
Dunno 452.1, but if my gun would shoot it, it would be a blast. Just a little bullseye and PoP goes the frog (or squirrel). I would like a nice light load for play. this would do it. In otherwords I'm in!
David

Bucks Owin
04-16-2006, 07:14 PM
How many guys does it take to make the idea feasible?
(I'm kinda new here and haven't gotten in on a custom mould before....)

Dennis

357maximum
04-16-2006, 07:38 PM
25 would be the first hurdle, ain't looking good is it?

Bucks Owin
04-16-2006, 08:29 PM
25 would be the first hurdle, ain't looking good is it?


Not especially...

Guess I'll have to stick with my 82 gr Lee for the time being,

Dennis

garandsrus
04-16-2006, 09:27 PM
I am still willing to honcho the deal. As 357maximum said, it would be great to get at least 25 molds so that Lee would waive the $100 setup fee.

There are 7 definites and 4 maybe's in the thread. If all 11 folks purchased a mold, we could still do the deal but it would be about an extra $9 per mold to cover the setup fee. To me it would be worth the extra $9 to get the mold, but I don't know what everyone else would like to do.

From other posts, the price per mold shipped would be $58 if we get 25 orders or $67 with 11 people. Any orders over 11 would reduce the $67 price a little.

The way I look at a mold like this is that after casting about 2000 bullets it's paid for itself since the retail price of the bullets is about $32/1000 (and going up). It doesn't take very long to get there with the casting rate of a 6 cavity mold!

Let me know what you want to do...

Thanks,
John

krag35
04-16-2006, 10:11 PM
I'd be in at $67.00.
krag35

castalott
04-16-2006, 10:27 PM
At $67 I am in for 1.....at $58 I would probably go for 2

Thanks, Dale

357maximum
04-16-2006, 10:37 PM
67 ain't all that bad, I would rather it be the 58, but even at 67 I am in as long as the upper left boolit is the decided one. 9 bucks ain't gonna hold me back.......

45 2.1
04-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Let it run until 25 or better, if it gets stuck before then, then you can introduce the higher option.

Catshooter
04-16-2006, 11:30 PM
This is a good idea. I'll take one for sure.

What about asking for .360 so we'd have room for some with guns with the larger bores? Lee'd probably give us either .360 or .359 then.


Cat

Buckshot
04-17-2006, 05:49 AM
............. I would like to see the slug drop no smaller then .359".

................Buckshot

slug
04-17-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm in & I'll pay the extra tariff & smile.

CSH
04-17-2006, 10:02 PM
I would kick in a few $ extra for this design, but I also would want it spec'ed to drop no smaller than 0.359". 0.360" would be even better.

krag35
04-17-2006, 11:03 PM
My present 38 shoots .358's pretty good, but most of the others I have had prefer .360". I'm still in on a .358", but would prefer .360"
krag35

Bucks Owin
04-18-2006, 01:22 AM
At present, I'm stretched too thin with my shootin' allowance but would buy one from someone this summer sometime....

Dennis

rebliss
04-19-2006, 06:31 PM
So fellas,

Does everyone plan on sizing this WC down from .359/.360, or will you tumble lube and shoot as-cast?

I've never seated a WC before. Someone mentioned cork behind the bullet? Does one have trouble with the boolit moving back and forth if it is seated below the case mouth and the roll-crimp is over the boolit?

I might be interested in getting in on the buy.

357maximum
04-19-2006, 09:31 PM
rebliss

I intent to just cast and tumble so I personally would want it no bigger than .359

I do not want a tl mold though just in case I wanna do it old school, and I have had better luck with tumbled traditional boolits than with tl designs in my SLOW stuff, like my cheifs special

garandsrus
04-19-2006, 09:55 PM
Rebliss,

I also intend to cast and tumble lube so bullets dropping at .359 sounds about right...

I have never had any trouble with a wadcutter moving around in the case. There should be plenty of case tension to hold it since the recoil will be very light. There is also a crimp groove in 45 2.1's design that you could use. I have crimped wad cutters in the groove also. I don't have any loading problems either singly or via a speedloader.

The recoil of the 115 truncated cone bullet loaded with 2.4 gr W231 is not much different than a .22 long rifle. It would make a great bullet for a young/new shooter. It will also be a great bullet for indoor PPC matches that are held at a maximum distance of 50 feet.

John

garandsrus
04-19-2006, 09:59 PM
Dennis,

I would be willing to order and hold a mold for you. I will ship it whenever you are ready....

John

krag35
04-22-2006, 03:40 PM
TTT
I really want one of these
krag35

rebliss
04-22-2006, 09:02 PM
I too like the 45 2.1's upper left design. Please count me as a 'yes' for this mould. How many does that make now?

garandsrus
04-22-2006, 09:55 PM
Here's the bullet that everyone wants:

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/garandsrus/105gr.jpg


Here's the list of folks that would like one based on the thread. If anyone is mentioned incorrectly, please let me know:
Garandsrus
Castalott (If price doesn't include set up fee - 2)
Buckshot
Lloyd Smale
Willbird
Bucks Own - Maybe
357 Maximum
Krag 35
CSH
Slug
David R
Catshooter
Bucks Owin
Rebliss

This puts at 13 or 14 molds, with one maybe.

The $100 set up fee is currently at $7.70/mold (based on 13 molds) so we are making progress... This would bring the total cost to $58 + 7.70 or $65.70. The cost will keep going down towards $58 as additional molds are requested. At 25+ molds the cost will be $58.

John

Catshooter
04-22-2006, 09:57 PM
Garrands,

I'm not sure, but I believe that Lee's set up fee is $150 now. Not that I care, I'll pay my share of whatever. Also, if you PM Buckshot, he can sticky this thread and it won't take long to get 25 or better.


Cat

garandsrus
04-22-2006, 10:02 PM
Catshooter,

Thanks for the heads up... Here is what's on Lee's site as of today:

We need:

1. Payment ($100 set-up and tooling fee for flat based bullets plus the cost of the mold ) ($150 for hollow point or hollow based bullets, plus the cost of the mold)
2. Single or double cavity molds would be $24.98 each, six cavity would be $50.00 each. Hollow point or hollow base bullets can only be made in single cavity, and are $25.98 each.
3. Add $4.00 to your order for s&h

The above set-up and tooling fee will be waived on orders of 25 pieces or more. For orders over 100 pieces regular dealer/distributor prices apply to mold prices, in addition to elimination of the set-up and tooling fee

I would guess that the setup fee hasn't changed based on their web site.

John

Slowpoke
04-22-2006, 10:30 PM
If you will spec it a little bigger you can throw my name in the hat as well,. .360 or .361 would give more shooters more options!!!

Good luck

Catshooter
04-22-2006, 10:35 PM
Garands,

You're right about the set up fee, and I'm full o' crap. Sorry for the misdirection.

I still want one fer sure!


Cat

ebner glocken
04-22-2006, 11:37 PM
If you spec it to drop at .360" and get 25 people in....I'm in

357maximum
04-23-2006, 12:59 AM
Guys I hate to report this well kinda anyway, I just stumbled onto a H&G 10 cavity wadcutter mold and I don't see me needing any other mold for my 38 specials and 38 S&W toys. Plus it looks like alot of you want to go .360 and my j frame will not allow this to chamber unless I size down, which I don't want to have to do. I may have to do this with the H&G mold and if I do it will be placed up for sale here. I simply launch too many rounds with my little toys to have to be sizing them all with my schedule and all... I want a pour, tl, load, then shoot system. Just like i have with my RCBS 148 wc mold, I would be happy with that mold if it had more cavities...

grumble
04-23-2006, 01:39 AM
John, put me down for one, too. I'll kick myself for life if I don't get one.

This thing would be a LOT of fun in a 458 caliber, too.

Catshooter
04-27-2006, 08:46 PM
John,

Well, what do you think? I think there's plenty of intrest, do you? I'd really like one of these. It's a great idea you've got here.


Cat

357maximum
04-27-2006, 11:54 PM
If the size is no bigger than 359 I'm back in...The H&G did not pan out..So I am back.....

garandsrus
04-28-2006, 09:27 AM
357maximum,

Glad to have you back...

I will open a group buy thread.

John

Bucks Owin
05-08-2006, 02:12 AM
Dennis,

I would be willing to order and hold a mold for you. I will ship it whenever you are ready....

John

Greatly appreciated John!

Dennis