Are HP's more accurate ? ?

[Ben]

I've been interested of late in HP cast rifle bullets. Beagle told me once that he'd never seen a bullet that once it was HP'd that didn't improve in accuracy.

I made a comparison test with my 358 Win. , Weatherby Vanguard that has been rebored from .308 Win. to 358 Win. by Jesse in OR.

Same distance, same load data, only variable was 1st target was shot with hollow pointed 358009's, the 2nd target was shot with solid 358009's.

This kind of " accuracy edge" ( in favor of the HP's) has also displayed itself in many of my .30 cal. rifles.

What has been your experience with solids and hollow points in the accuracy dept ?

Thanks,

Ben
__________________________________________________ ______

The 1st target was shot at 75 yards , 5 shots , with HP's
The Hp'ing on the mold was done by Erik in OR :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/DSCI0005-1.jpg

This 2nd target below is shot with the same load data substituting solids instead of the Hp's , 5 shots, 75 yards also :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/55-1.jpg

While neither target is anything I'm ashamed of, the HP'd bullet shot tighter groups all day long today.

The solid weighs 292 grs., the hp weighs 270 grs.

Ben

[AnthonyB]

Ben:
Please sell me that rifle and a lifetime supply of boolits. I shouldn't need more than 10k or so. I'll stand by to hear from you.
Tony

[Ben]

Tony:

I wouldn't want to stick you with this old junker rifle. We are too good of friends for that..........

Ben

[AnthonyB]

Ben:
Friends? I only sold you one clunker H&G mould; I'm willing to take a chance on that rifle.
My 35809 will be HP'd soon. I agree with you that HP moulds shoot better.
Tony

[AnthonyB]

Ben:
Realized after I hit send that my post could be taken differently from the way I intended it. We are friends and you should sell me that rifle!
Tony

[JeffinNZ]

Well, look at it this way. .22RF match ammo is all solid so...............

[Ben]

Tony :

We are both having some fun, that's what this is all about.

Best,
Ben

[felix]

Ben, are you ready to compete yet? That gun will qualify for Hunter Class if not more than 10.5 pounds. Should you win, you can bet they will weigh it. I can see it now: a cast boolit gun taking the Hunter class. 100 and 200 yards. ... felix

[Ben]

JeffinNZ :

That is 1 way of looking at it, but one of Sierra's most accurate .30 cal. jacketed bullets is their 168 gr. HP BT Match.....

Ben

[Ben]

felix :

I'm ready to compete against some of these big white tailed deer that we've got here in Alabama this fall / winter.

My 358 Win. and I will be spending many days with each other this winter.

Best,

Ben

[JIMinPHX]

The only boolits that I have HP'd were some Lyman's that I loaded in a .223. I drilled out the cavities on a lathe. Accuracy improved a little, but not a lot.

[cbrick]

Ben, fine shooting and really nice looking boolits.

I have several moulds altered by Erik @ Hollow Point Molds (http://www.hollowpointmold.com/) and every one of them are perfection. He does great work and his turn around time is exceptional.

All my life I have heard the theory that full length gas check HP's were more accurate but have never had the ambition to do the level and amount of testing that would prove it one way or the other. All kinds of theory why this may be.

How many groups did you shoot comparing the two boolits? Interesting comparison using HP cast, hhmmm, I have an old beater single shot 308 that shoots fairly impressive cast groups at 150 considering what it is, it couldn't really shoot much better?? I can see it now, more money to Erik and more toys to play with . . . Oh well.

Rick

[Ben]

cbrick :

How many groups did I fire today ?

I shot 5 round groups today. I fired about five - 5 shot groups with solids and another five - 5 shot groups with HP's.

Not a single group fired with the solids beat the accuracy of the groups fired with the HP's.

How scientific is all this.......that's all up to the reader of this thread. I was a biological science major in college, I understand the scientific method. Today, I tried to keep all variables constant with the exception of either shooting solids or substituting the HP's.

Should I have fired many hundreds of rounds before drawing any conclusions....maybe so....however the shooting I did today made a real believer out of me.


Ben

[Bret4207]

I'm no scientist, but what I have observed seems to support the idea that HPing- DONE PROPERLY- seems to help. I've also seem some of my ho' made HP experiments fly all over the paper. MAybe it's moving the CG rearward or maybe it's something to do with some other flight characteristic, but it seems to work.

[Shuz]

Ben--Excellent post and pictures! Are you planning on using the HP 358009 on your whitetails this fall? If you can harvest more than one deer, it might be interesting to see if there is any difference in penetration/expansion etc. Of course, the hardest part will be to try and hit both deer in the same place!

[Edubya]

First of all, I wished that I could shoot that well.
Ben, there is a difference in the load data; the bullet weight. "Same distance, same load data" [...] "The solid weighs 292 grs., the hp weighs 270 grs." That 22grs. might be what's making the difference. I don't think I would worry about it either way.

[1Shirt]

Ben, I agree with Beagle, and now have 8 or 9 molds HP'd. A couple are factory, the rest done by Buckshot. May just be me, but I think that the HP versions are more accurate than the solids. My smallest is 225438, my largest is 375449 and both have improved MY accuracy with 223 and 375H&H. Might just be between the ears rational, but don't think so.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Ben]

1Shirt:

I'll have to say that I'm with you.

May be in my head also, but to me they certainly seem more accurate.

Ben

[wallenba]

Ben:
Please sell me that rifle and a lifetime supply of boolits. I shouldn't need more than 10k or so. I'll stand by to hear from you.
Tony
Someone give him a comfy chair and a pile of books while he's waitin'.:-D

[mike in co]

I'm no scientist, MAybe it's moving the CG rearward .


bingo.......


mike in co

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. Ive found some instances that a poor shooting bullet was improved by hollow pointing. Some even drasticaly but ive also seen good shooting bullets that didnt shoot as well hollow pointed. Hps are also harder to cast well and im never one to sort by weight but when i do hollow points i usually do.

[UweJ]

It does move the center of gravity backward and therfore stabelizing the boolit a bit better in flight. Good for rifles but I couldn´t notice any improvement in .45 acp in 25 Meters. Since I mostly do target shooting ,in such short range it doesn´t really effect it that much.
Uwe

[deltaenterprizes]

JeffinNZ :

That is 1 way of looking at it, but one of Sierra's most accurate .30 cal. jacketed bullets is their 168 gr. HP BT Match.....

Ben

The reason for hollow points with match bullets is to have a perfectly formed base, the edges of the nose are not uniform.
Match cast bullets are nose pour for the same reason.

[BAGTIC]

Here is a link to a fellow that has designed and built several .375 caliber wildcats based on the .308 case and he has a reamer he will lend. Search for "375-08 Jaguar"


http://shootersforum.com/printthread.htm?t=7919&pp=40

Many years ago I had a .308 Winchester M100 rebored to .358 and it worked fine.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with Bret; "I'm no scientist, but what I have observed seems to support the idea that HPing- DONE PROPERLY- seems to help.

I believe the reason is the HP shifts the center of gravity of the bullet rearward and the HP area also eliminates any potential for defects there shifting any farther from the center of spin where they have less adverse affect.

Larry Gibson