LEOs comments welcomed

[theperfessor]

Maybe this ought to go in another section, and if so I apologize, but with the number of LEOs we have as members I just wanted to get a little feedback.

A statement that I read somewhere recently said that most street cops enforce the peace, while most prosecutors enforce the law. Given the number of laws on the books that could get almost anybody in trouble as a "lawbreaker" of some sort it seemed to make a certain amount of sense to me.

I would be interested in knowing how our LEO members feel about this. Comments?

[gasboffer]

20 year cop here. That's exactly right! Main job of the police is to keep ;the peace! Prosecutors and judges enforce the law (most of the time.) However, some of them are so incompetant that they make you wonder if it is all worth-while.
IHMSA70L

[wiljen]

Not an LEO but my .02 is.

You have to do something that breaks the peace before anyone notices that you are doing something illegal most of the time. Matter of fact, others may decide you are violating the law (smelting in your driveway) even if no such law actually exists.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, what they've done with that statement is boil down some complexities into something simple. Basically, it is right on, but you have to be in the field and experience it's glory from several angles to appreciate that there are many nuances to that statement.

I've been in LE for 20 years now. I've worn 4 badges during my career, and currently possess two. I've done everything from patrol to serving papers to death investigation and community corrections. I've worked for traditional LE agencies, autonomous investigatory agency, and the Courts.

To be honest, I don't find anyone in the Courts who feels we "enforce the law." It's more complex than that. The current thinking is "Restorative Justice" which is to restore victims and offenders to gainful society by healing the victims and fixing the wrong-headedness of the offenders. This is actually not all bad, but it's not all good either.

Depending on the situation, a lot of the time, police are there to settle disputes. (Think 90% of what Andy Griffith did in Mayberry.) A lot of the time they are there to investigate and try to solve a crime. (To catch the bad guys.) Some of the time they're there to prevent problems (directing traffic, presence at demonstrations, etc.) In many ways, much of what we do IS enforcing the law, but we'd prefer to do it by keeping the peace, rather than throwing on the cuffs, unless it's a crime that deserves that kind of reaction.

[RU shooter]

14 yrs with 3 different small rural departments here. There is alot to be said about keeping the peace as that is what the majority of the people wanted done! If they knew that every federal,State,County,Township or Boro law or ord. was going to be strictly inforced ,Well that dept would shortly fail to exist due to public outcry. I stayed busy enough as a patrolman without searching for violators.

[Bret4207]

Retired after 22 years as a rural State Trooper. Keeping the peace? No, IME that's too intrusive and proactive for what people want form the police these days. What they want is someone to clean up their problems and stay the heck out of their lives at any other time. To keep the peace, IMO, would require a much more proactive, in your business type of policing than people will stand for these days. We used to do a bit of that and it almost always ended up with me holding the dirty end of the stick.

So, we wait until a law is broken instead of acting first. It's not the way I'd prefer to do things, but in my State that seemed to be what everyone wanted.


As for the court system, I think justice is the last thing on their minds. I would make some major changes that would not be popular with probably 75% of the citizenry at first, but it would work.

The problem with the "Andy and Barney" type of law enforcement everyone seems to want is that good ol' Andy was always giving someone a break, or bending a law here or ignoring a law there. It worked out for Andy because he was';t real, didn't have to deal with real people and real problems. People need to separate TV from reality and they can't seem to do it.

[theperfessor]

Brett -

I'd be interested in knowing what would be considered "too intrusive and proactive" from your point of view. When I hear the phrase proactive I think about cops working with kids or something like that. It seems to me the local city and county police are always doing something - coaching an inner city kids basketball team, having a law enforcement summer camp (P.A.L.), working with the local food bank or the women's shelter. That seems proactive to me, and more success to them. But that is just my point of view.

I realize that law enforcement covers a wide range of activities and so far people from different departments who perform different tasks have chimed in here. I know I made a simplistic statement and I admit that I probably had in mind the role and feelings of the officers that walk/ride bicycles/drive patrol cars in my neighborhood. But the responses from all have been interesting and appreciated.

[Beekeeper]

I don't know if I should be getting involved in this conversation as I am not now and never have been a LEO.
I have lived here for 4 years and have never seen a LEO in my neighborhood except when they came to check me out when they received a call saying I was a domestic terroriost as I owned a gun and the BBT kept coming to my door.
The only other time I have seen one is giving tickets in a parking lot (uninvited) as He didn't feel like going out on the street( i found out later).
When I called about a problem with one of my Native American neighbors having a drunken , naked party in the middle of the street the dispatcher told me "they are your neighbors do you really want to do this" . They came at 0900 the next day. Is that proactive?

I am told they do a lot of stuff for the kids around here but have never seen them do it !

I hear all of the time about the wonderful things they do in this town but have also heard if you call them they come the next day. Something about not being put in harms way.
This town is total democrat and I think they think they never will need the LEO's.

I hope I haven't stepped on the toes of the good LEO's out there as good friends here on the forum should not be wasted.



Jim

beekeeper

[Dframe]

20 year cop here. That's exactly right! Main job of the police is to keep ;the peace! Prosecutors and judges enforce the law (most of the time.) However, some of them are so incompetant that they make you wonder if it is all worth-while.
IHMSA70L
What he said. I spent 23 years doing just that.

[Recluse]

So, we wait until a law is broken instead of acting first. It's not the way I'd prefer to do things, but in my State that seemed to be what everyone wanted.


We were taught at FLETC that police are reactive rather than proactive per the Constitution.

To be otherwise would have us being the Speech Police, Thought Police, Imagination Police and the Possibility Police (possibility a crime might get committed).

Having been a fed, I worked with entirely too many badges that would've had zero problem stomping all over the entire citizenry's rights under the guise of "enforcing the law."

That's why I have huge problems with vice squads--especially those that dress up a female cop like a prostitute and then stick her on a street corner, and then bust the would-be johns that she strikes up conversations with. Same as with local cops who do reverse drug-stings--ie, the cop is the "dealer" and when somebody comes up to buy a rock, gets busted.

The way we were taught, if a crime originates in the mind of law enforcement, it becomes entrapment. But this statute has been bent, twisted and prostituted until virtually anything goes.

We have enough crime going on in this country without having to resort to making our cops pseudo-criminals in order to CREATE a criminal, and then call the whole thing a "sting operation."

But if you eliminate that, BATF would be disbanded within hours for lack of cases. And since they can get away with it, it trickles down to state and local mentalities.

The result is the inherent distrust the public has for the institution of law enforcement.

:coffee:

[725]

Keeping the peace comes from the English common law "...to keep the King's peace." It has devolved into enforceing the law vis-a-vis doing the Andy & Barney thing. There is a time and place for both and a good cop knows when. A lazy, stupid, or chicken cop will use the mechanism to (his/her) advantage to get out of doing work, or confronting danger / or fear of being not politically correct. Thanks goodness those are the rarest of all cops, but they are out there. Problem is that it's subjective and thus lends itself to not being fair or consistant. Just my opinion.

[wallenba]

Two words, officers discretion. (not a LEO)

[Bret4207]

Here is a perfect example of what trying to be helpful and proactive gets you-

The posts I'm referencing are a ways down.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60059

I shouldn't have bothered.

[Bret4207]

Brett -

I'd be interested in knowing what would be considered "too intrusive and proactive" from your point of view. When I hear the phrase proactive I think about cops working with kids or something like that. It seems to me the local city and county police are always doing something - coaching an inner city kids basketball team, having a law enforcement summer camp (P.A.L.), working with the local food bank or the women's shelter. That seems proactive to me, and more success to them. But that is just my point of view.

I realize that law enforcement covers a wide range of activities and so far people from different departments who perform different tasks have chimed in here. I know I made a simplistic statement and I admit that I probably had in mind the role and feelings of the officers that walk/ride bicycles/drive patrol cars in my neighborhood. But the responses from all have been interesting and appreciated.

If I see a kid hanging with the wrong crowd or catch him doing something he shouldn't and do the Andy and Barn thing- go to the parent and advise them- in 9 out of 10 cases today I'd be accused of picking on the kid, infringing on his rights, etc. Happened to me all the time. If I see a potential problem cropping up and stop and advise someone- in my last job I did this all the time- in 8 out of 10 cases I'd be given the bums rush out the door and badmouthed all over the county. Of course when I caught the clown doing what I told him he couldn't and ticketed him or arrested him then I was the worlds biggest prick. That's part of what wears you out and burns you out. After a while you just shake your head and let them do as they please and write them up later.

Sad, ain't it?

[Mumblypeg]

With 34+ years LE experince, here's my rule of thumb. Try to settel disagreements between individuals in the simplest manner possible and in the best intrest to all involved. If someone has to go to jail then so be it. Other wise let them go their merry way. Some things can't be egnored, for example: You stop a guy that has no driver's license or is is under suspension. You have to get him off the road cause if you give a break for that and he has a wreck and hurts of kills someone, you're screwed because you could have prevented it. Being a cop is not always about how many people you can put in jail.
Forgive me if my spelling sucks, I said I was a cop not an English Teacher...

[Mumblypeg]

Oh, and another thing, Always, always be able to explain your actions.

[wallenba]

Bret, the message parents give their kids by reacting that way is A: what they did was OK. B: If the police detain you, Mom and Dad will fix it...again. They are just paving the way to jail for them. Since corporal punishment in schools was abolished and parents get in trouble for disciplining their kids, it gets worse and worse each generation. The good book says what...spare the rod, spoil the child.

[theperfessor]

Bret -

Thanks for explaining what you meant by proactive. I agree that there has been a decline in respect by many people for law enforcement efforts. There's a lot of reasons we could probably agree on that cause this - unrealistic TV shows, the enaction and unsuccessful enforcement of stupid laws, outright bad behavior by a small but highly visible number of law enforcement officers and agencies among them. I can understand how you would feel after taking the time to give somebody a warning and then have to nail them for the same stupid behavior.

Personally, my encounters with LEOs have been a mixed bag of experiences, most of them good. I won't go into them here. I guess its just my nature to ask questions as a way to learn and understand other people views.

[cajun shooter]

I was on the job for 15 years before turning in my paper work. I 'm speaking from my own experience and not what I think it should be. When you first become a cop you hit the streets ready to be that knight in white amour that will save the world. You then see all the veterans around you with the It's Us against Them attitude and you wonder why they are like that. You soon find out. For the most part people are in contact with police in traffic stops and that is where their impression of police comes from. Sad but true. I know traffic cops who would write their own family a ticket, they have a bad morning with the wife before leaving for work and guess who they can take it out on. Not Right but true. For your own good when stopped just say yes sir and no sir and be honest and you might be surprised when leaving without that ticket. I worked the nice rich section of town and the people would wave and say thank you when you went by their home. Do the same in the poor neighbor hood and they close the door when they see you. Why, because they don't trust you to be fair with them. I also worked 6 years in Narcotics Division. Could write a book on that. As far as the Da's office goes you have two types of attorney's. Those who will make a case because they want to be the DA one day and those who believe in doing it in a correct way no matter the out come. One more type that also considers the cop as being the same as the suspect. They dislike both. If you are LEO you will understand my next statement. Who do you huddle with at any function? When I tried to be proactive I was sued and taken before IA or given time off. When I tried to follow the rules I was come down on by the guys sitting behind the desk and forgetting what it meant to be a street cop. So in the end you have a well meaning person who turns into the US Against Them Cop. Even cops who have never did anything but patrol understand. Just like when I first came to this forum and saw every morning Bret4207 posting. I said I bet he is or was a cop. He still has that I can help attitude. I quit that somewhat as I realized that some on this forum don't like cops. Bret, just let them screw up you can't save the world.

[GLynn41]

try to be not weary in well doing- never had a problem with LO --they human like every one and they tend to see people at their worst-- no doubt the job takes a toll on you guys but where would we be with out you //when ever children are made to do at least some of what is right they rebel --being an adult changes nothing--so it is not always a lack of trust -- as to this forum - everyo0ne is a name and an attitude- we will likely know only what you show- if some do not like LO that is their problem-- I am glad your are around.-it is after all not a perfect world

[DLCTEX]

Our town had a town hall meeting to discuss the problem of teen age drinking. The majority of the adults wanted no enforcement. The consensus was "we really don't have a problem". The reason the meeting was called was that a number of youths had been ticketed, or the sheriff dept. had to visit with the parents after catching the teens with booze. Unlicensed driving is rampant here, with kids as young as 13 driving. When they have a wreck, no ticket, just let the insurance company handle it. Adults with suspended license have to be falling down drunk to get ticketed or taken to jail. The sheriff told me that that's the way the citizens want it and if he enforces the law he won't be sheriff very long, and the next guy won't either until they get one who does it their way. This is the same explanation I got from a game warden in SE Oklahoma in the 60's about the people hunting game year round, only the people there would have shot him in the woods. There was free range grazing there for cattle and hogs and the locals handled their disputes and the law only made an arrest if there were charges and the offender came to town. The first year I lived there there were 7 unsolved murders over cattle/hogs. Probably hasn't changed much. In the end, you get whatever enforcement the majority of the people demand. Too many times it matters more who you know more than anything else.

[mike in co]

i kinda agree with bret. police have to be reactive..its how our constition is written. there can be generic commuity involvement, but if you get too specific,,,,,ur butt ends up in court.

as a side note...bret and i disagree on some stuff, but i think we both still respect each other.

it is possible to disagree without being a jerk.

thanks
mike in co

[Ron]

Cajun Shooter got it right with his experience of Them & Us syndrome. I served for 34 years in my department and it took about three years for the shiny buttons feeling to disappear and realised that this is just a job that has to be done and that all times you were under the microscope and whatever you did you made damned sure that your rear end was covered and that despite some rear ends intentions, you were going home at the end of the shift and he was going inside.

The law here in Victoria is basically a mix of old English Common Law and Statute Law which thankfully police officers have a lot of discretion as to whether to charge or not. Most domestic disputes between neighbours/businesses, I tried to settle without resource to charging someone and I found that this generally was accepted by the parties involved, however if the evidence was there and I couldn't settle it then off to court we went. Domsetic violence issues between husband and wife are a different situation entirely and probably one of the most dangerous situations a copper can find himself in. We usually ended up locking one or both parties up.

I am glad that I don't/didn't work as a copper in the USA, I don't think I could have handled the legal system you have., what with DA's and continual appeals et6c it would drive a person to drink.

Here, the charging/arresting officer compiled the brief of evidence. Had it authorised for prosecution by his OC, then issued the summonses after fixing a court date at the Magistrates Court that suited him. On court day, if you were lucky, a member of the Prosecutions Branch (A Police Department Branch) would act as the prosecutor. If not then you did as I did for about 5 years, sit at the bar table as prosecutor, get in the witness box, swear yourself in and give evidence in chief. Take cross examination if required, leave the box and start calling your witnesses and then if the defendant decided to give evidence, get stuck into him and hopefully knock his defence over. The Stipendary Magistrate would then make his/her decision which could be anything from a fine, a term of community service, probation or jail. These were hard days and it was common for me to front court with an armfull of briefs to deal with.

More serious fellonies, serious assaults/rape/armed robbery etc were heard before a Judge in the County or Supreme Courts with juries. The Director of Public Prosecutions staff prosecuted these cases and the police involved were witnesses. All of the case preparation was done by the DPP Office.

I spent two years as a detective working under cover in our Crime Intel Group and learned to deal with all types, mostly bad. I hate shotguns but during that two years I carried one in my car along with two hand guns. Got my gray hair then as well.

Policing is a job worth doing as most who have been there will testify but you have just got to remember that most people don't have any contact with police until such time as they need them. Unfortunately that is usually when they have committed or witnessed an offence and then they realise that they do not know **** about the law or how it works. They don't know what it is like to pull a body from a wrecked car or, the worst job, attending at an addressd and telling someone that their loved one is not coming home because he/she has been killed in an accident or by foul play. I never did get used to that.

Having been reired for nearly nine years, I am nearly back to becoming my old self, just joe citizen and I go about my daily life accordingly. Still have my contacts in the job and keep in touch with some of them. Friends sometimes ask me for advice and I always refer them to talk to someone at the local police station, time for me to relax and watch the clouds glide by.

[Beekeeper]

Having spent most of my life in the Military or out in the boondocks working with my bees the only times I saw LO was reactive and sometimes a little too reactive.
I agree with Brett in that the LEO has to decide what is proper in each case.

My favorite is having a young officer stop me coming out of a field one night and was going to give me a ticket for theft of private property( the only reason he could think of for me being in the field to start with).

When he asked me to uncover the load so he could inspect it he was stung about 15 times before he could get to his car.(They like to crawl at night and being agitated from the bouncing in the field were quite mad) . He used his loud speaker to tell me to go ahead and leave.

Saw him a couple of days later all swollen up. Wanted to know why I didn't tell him I had Bees on board. Answer you wouldn't believe me if I had.

We had coffee and he left. After that he would always blink his lights when he saw me at night.


Jim

beekeeper

[oksmle]

Dale .... The only thing that has changed in SE Oklahoma is we no longer have open range.

Bret.... If a couple of "hard nosed" cops hadn't taken the initative & trouble to be proactive instead of reactive I would probably have spent a bunch of time in jail as a teenager. Instead I was warned repeatedly, roughed up occasionally & watched closely. My son is a cop today & I hope he does the same to those he thinks deserve it. One of those cops died earlier this summer & I drove all the way back to Maryland just to say goodby. At the funeral there were half a dozen or so guys I grew up with attending out of gratitude.
So don't think it's not worth it. You never know who or how you will affect a person's life.

[9.3X62AL]

Ron hit the nail right on the head, as did several others above. Retired for a bit over 4 years, after almost 28 years as deputy sheriff and detective.

The curious thing about police/community relationships, and Ron touched on it tangentially--we seldom see most of the people we work for, and they seldom deal with us. 98% of our work deals with about 2% of the population--unless you work traffic and get your jollies citing Tupperware Moms and Soccer Dads.

Not my thing--at all.

I didn't sign on to play "Cops & Speeders". I didn't really sign on to play "Cops & Meth Cooks", either--but did a lot of that, which is why that third arm extends out from between my shoulders. (J/K) No, I signed on to play COPS AND ROBBERS--to pursue and capture people who hurt and/or killed other people. THAT was my core directive, and I was lucky enough to spend the bulk of my career doing exactly that. And there was nothing I enjoyed about police work more than I enjoyed hunting armed men. SWAT deputy, narc, intel officer, or robbery/homicide detective--taking armed predators off the street and out of the faces of the people I worked for was unalloyed pleasure. Total self-actualization, too. :) Most elements of cop work I do not miss--but the hunt, and the people I hunted with--you don't forget about.

[reddog]

whew! This here is a deep slippery place. I'm a ex cop (po-po) as my daughter sez, and I've seen a bit. Some folks have a job where they just can't win. A police officer might just be at the top of the list. I started out thinking I could help folks and just wanting to do something for folks that might make a difference. I hope the good Lord judges me as having been good to good folks and stopping the rest. I'll know at my time. I don't like to get in other folks business and I wished I knew that was what being a cop was all about before I started. Good folks look to you to fix things, and the law pretty much keeps you from doing it. I swear it seems like the folks that do wrong have it easier than those who try to do right. It seems like the idea is right and sound, but the workings are just not right. Anywho, I'm just an old country boy, I don't know the workings of the BIG machine. I know right and wrong and I'll deal with it in my life. As it is, if a Police Officer has reason to contact me, he's in charge. That there is just the way it is. If I aint done nothing wrong, and he does the right thing, we'll both be on our way: He has a job to do. If he wrongs me, then the law SHOULD work on my side. We all know good folks, and we all know bad. That's how we pick our friends. I don't hate everbody just cause I don't like you, and by the same token, all cops aint bad. Sorry for the old lady run, just my figgers. reddog.

[Thumbcocker]

Based on 20 years as a prosecutor; the very best thing for prosecutor LEO relations is for the LEO to sit at your table during a jury trial. It is a very eye opening experience for the LEO and helps build a good rapport. Most of the LEOs I work with are competnet professionals and I value their input. They don't get to run my cases but their opinions are valued and given great weight. When prosecutors and LEOs respect each other for their respective skill sets things go much better.

[Bret4207]

Based on 20 years as a prosecutor; the very best thing for prosecutor LEO relations is for the LEO to sit at your table during a jury trial. It is a very eye opening experience for the LEO and helps build a good rapport. Most of the LEOs I work with are competnet professionals and I value their input. They don't get to run my cases but their opinions are valued and given great weight. When prosecutors and LEOs respect each other for their respective skill sets things go much better.

I could only wish our DA's felt that way. We're treated as useful idiots and little better than the trash we bring to them.

I'd like to take (if I were still working) all the Da's and ADA's out for a few patrols and let them see first hand what our side is like.

[Mumblypeg]

+ 10 what Bret said. Ours just wanted to plea cases down so they didn't have to have a jury trial. Hell I think I've tried more cases in magistrate's court than the the DA did in general sessions court. That is, the ones that they didn't just throw out or never prosecute. It's amazing how many cases NEVER come to court.

[Mumblypeg]

Based on 20 years as a prosecutor; the very best thing for prosecutor LEO relations is for the LEO to sit at your table during a jury trial. It is a very eye opening experience for the LEO and helps build a good rapport. Most of the LEOs I work with are competnet professionals and I value their input. They don't get to run my cases but their opinions are valued and given great weight. When prosecutors and LEOs respect each other for their respective skill sets things go much better.

Thumbcocker, You must be one of the good ones. Sadly I never saw a good one in our district in all my 34+ years in LE. I guess we got what was paid for . Down here a lawyer can make so much more money in private practice that only a not so good one would want to be the Solicitor( our equivilent of your DA). I also know that all cases made by cops are not always that great so I understand your side as well.

[Thumbcocker]

I always reccomend that new ASA's or interns in the office go on a ride along with either the sheriff or a city pd. ( I did when I was a newby. I went out on a few search warrants too)

I have had my share of disagreements with LEO's. My personal bitch is the "go ahead and charge it and I will put it together later" mentality. I have done that a few times and had defense attorneys insert the case in a part of my anatomy that it was never meant to fit. I also despise old officers or even departments who tell new leo's fresh out of the academy to ignore what the prosecutor says he or she needs to make a case. I also can't stand the situations that arise when officers who know how to do it right but don't do it.


I have had to sell cases cheaply when things go wrong ( suppression issue, informant death, lost evidence, etc). I have given my share of breaks to defendants. Pleading down felonies to misdemeanors on young first offenders etc. I am a very firm believer in drug treatment and drug courts. The biggest problem in the criminal justice system is that the legislature takes action on a serious social problem by making it a serious offesne and dropping it into the laps of leo's, prosecutors, pd's, and the courts. No funding for training, manpower, or other resources but they can go home then and tell their constituates that they took strong action on the (insert current buzzword) problem.

Every competent prosecutor that I know loves good police work. Heck every good defense attorney that I know loves good police work. They can tell their client there is no suppression issue, there is no evidence issue, there is no witness issue. I will get you the best deal I can.

I am not perfect and I have made my share of screw ups. I do appreciate good leo's and good police work. If a leo has a bitch about what I did in a case my door or phone is open to them. By the same token if they cause me problems by screwing up they will hear from me. If one leo continues to mess up my cases his shift commander will eventually hear from me. Good leo's are just as much professionals as anyone else in the system and I respect them.



One war story. A few years ago another prosecutor and I were on the steps of the courtroom with the case officer. We had already picked the jury. This officer had only been on the job a few years and this was his first jury trial and it was a serious felony. He had done a very good job with the investigation and was a bit neverous. Just before we wnet in he asked "is there anything you need to tell me before we go in". I couldn't resist. I told him " yeah, don't pick your nose or talk to your gun at the table" It lightened the mood somewhat.

[JCherry]

Thumbcocker,

Prosecutors going for ride-alongs with LEO's is indeed one of the most important things they can do.

I had a dope smuggling case years ago and the young AUSA wanted to go to the site of the incident near a gate in the International Boundary fence with Mexico. I drove him to the area and we saw dust from a vehicle in Mexico headed in our direction. I backed my vehicle into the brush and via radio notified other Agents of the activity. I also advised the Agents that I had the ride-along and would be a "non-combatant" in whatever ensued.

Sure enough the vehicle crossed into the US, passed us by and was subsequently stopped by the other Agents. It turned out to only be a couple hundred pounds of marijuana, (a small load to me). That incident really opened the eyes of the young AUSA.

Another AUSA told me a month or so later that the incident had scared the bejeebers out of the young AUSA. I had not realized it had scared him at the time as other than observing and reporting we had no other involvement in the incident and in my eyes we were never even close to any danger no to mention I was as normal armed to the teeth with sidearm and a Steyer AUG (automatic rifle, .223, 40 rd mag).

That young AUSA was great to work with after that. I guess he saw his elephant.

I've been retired for five years now and do still miss the chase and takedowns but it is so nice not to be subject to 24/7 call outs, the paperwork and admin garbage any more.

Edit; I was case agent in several trials over the years in Federal Court and got to work with the AUSA during trial. I always got a kick out of jury selection. We always tried to get the Phd's and anyone with a beard off if possible. Really liked the jurist who had worked for a living for 15-20 years and had several kids.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[peter nap]

There's a lot of honesty on this board. It's kinda refreshing. I am not nor ever have been a LEO. I worked for Law enforcement agencies for 13 years including 5 with the Feds. In my opinion, every answer so far gives a large piece of the answer to the OP's question.

In short, IMHO, LE doesn't keep the peace...not anymore! The days of taking Johnnie Home when he's had too much to drink, are long forgotten. The lawyers and in general, peoples lack of attention to their own affairs, don't allow it anymore.

If an officer gets past his Standard issue street solder phase, and starts seeing it as just a job, he still has to face the reality that he's walking a tightrope between civil litigation for abuse of power and doing nothing.

Tough job! Unfortunately, that's why Departments are now forced to hire people that have no business in law enforcement. There are no other takers.

Just my 0.02