EMF Hartford 92

[Dogg]

Just got my Hartford 92, .38/.357 this morning, 24" heavy octagon barrel and caseharden action. I was surprised at the quality, with the exception of a small spot on one flat of the barrel that wasn't polished out like the rest it is really nice. A bit forward heavy but I actially like the feel. Don't have things set up for punching paper right now but do have a 10"x10" heavy steel plate set up on a log out back. Found some old 158gr. swc that I have had for the last 15years, with the exception of loading through the loading gate which is my problem because of really big hands and fingers, it cycled every one smoothly without a hicup. Can't say I really like the buckhorn rear sight but easily popped the steel plate from about 50yds. I am definetly going to have fun with this rifle! :drinks:
To hot to mold bullets here in Louisiana right now so will work on that this Fall, untill then will have to use some lead swc that I have left over from years past. Need to find a heavy175gr rnf mold for it.
I am hoping that the Hartford part of Rossi will produce this rifle in .44mag, cause I think I like it better than the Marlin 1894. :roll:

[cajun shooter]

I have two of the 92's at this time and have owned others. They are good sound rifles and the action will hold up to any common sense load. If you really want to better your sights there are several to chose from. Steve Young of Stevez guns aka Nate Kiowa Jones in Port Authur Texas is the 92 guru. His number is 409-984-5473. If your rifle has the barrel band front sight he can make it better with a large gold post or what ever you chose. I have the Marble's tang sights on mine with the front by Steve. Look in the Brownells catalog for different sights also. The factory sights are pretty much useless if you are over 50. What part of this oven do you live in? I have been putting up with the summers for 62 years now, too late to go anywhere else.

[Dogg]

Hey Cajun Shooter, thanks for the sight info, at 61 I am definetly having trouble with the buckhorh sights. I was looking at Skinner Sights who is a sponsor on the Marlin forum, not sure if they will work but the barrel mounted peep sight looks interesting
I am in the country south of Shreveport, and since I came from the mountains of Montana and Carson City, NV I am definetly having a hard time with the heat, I dream of snow.... most of the time it is way to hot for me to really do much outside in the summer.
:Fire:

[fecmech]

You can put one of the Taurus tang sights on , your tang is already drilled and tapped for it. You can get the sight here for $38. and the screws from Brownells. http://www.taurususa.com/accesories-tangsight.cfm?

[cajun shooter]

Dogg, If you call Steve tell him his twin, Fairshake gave you the number. That is my cowboy name and everyone tells us we look alike. I'm not sure that the info about the Taurus site is correct as that sight fits the 22's. Maybe fecmech has more. The new Marble's that is sold by Buffalo Arms is a nice one to install as you can change out the center post to shoot different distance and they are marked for windage change. With the tang you learn in short order to look through the rear and only at the front sight. It makes the gun very fast for our old eyes. I use them in CAS.

[timkelley]

"fecmech" is right about the Tarus sight, I have one of them on my LSI 92 and it works really well for 64 year old eyes.

[fecmech]

There are 2 screws in the EMF tang, one goes through to hold the stock and the other is just a plug screw. The Taurus sight fits that hole spacing but you need a slightly longer screw due to sight base thickness. The Brownells number for the Rossi 92 is http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=49516/pid=8835/sku/Tang_Sight_Screw_Set. If you get those screws and the Taurus sight it's a simple screw on addition.

[Dogg]

fecmech, which of the sights listed on the Taurus tang sights fit the 92, since the 92 is not listed????????????

[fecmech]

They all do as far as I can tell because they are all the same order number. I ordered the one for the model 62 for my Rossi and it fit just fine. I also put one on a friends EMF Rossi 92.

[cajun shooter]

The front screw is a 10-32 and the rear is metric. Brownells also sells the screws. The tang sights are able to fit a lot of models . I needed one for a H&R BC Classic and after measuring the center to center found it to be the same as a Browning 1885. Measure the center to center and if the same it will work.

[Pepe Ray]

Actually you can get a long tang screw at your local hardware store.
Tolerances are such that an American standard can be found to work.
I ground the head to an oval screw head config., colored it with a Magic Marker
and your home free. Well, almost free.
'Course,--I'm cheep.
Pepe Ray

[pietro]

The Rossi 92's are fairly easy to peep, with a low line-of-sight peep that will readily zero using the issue height front sight.

It's even easier, if it's one with the bolt-top safety.

The ones below have a Williams top-mount peep, meant for a Winchester 94AE; and a Skinner Lo-Pro mounted in a shaved bolt safety or replacement plug.

Steve makes/sells an entire safety replacement peep, that's on much the same idea.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0473.jpg

.

[Dogg]

Pietro, how does that Skinner low mount work in the bolt safety hole? Did the hole require threading? I like that arrangement a lot.

And since I just ordered another Hartford 24" 92 in .44mag I need to get the skinny on these peeps cause my old eyes aint working to well with the buckhorns.

And for anyone interested: the EMF Hartford model 92 are no longer being manufactured, there are a limited number available from EMF, I spent a bit of time on the phone with Tanya at EMF and must say I was impressed with the professionalism and patients she had with me. So anyone wanting a Hartford model better be looking to get real soon, cause Rossi isn't going to make them any more. If you are interested their #800 430-1310 talk to Tanya she is real helpful. Tell her Wade sent you cause she was so helpful...
Dogg

[pietro]

The bolt safety came out after drifting it's retainer crosspin out of the bolt (in the locking lug recess) - AND I almost lost the teensy spring driven detent ball lurking in it's side just below the bolt top. :shock:

Anyway, when I got it out, I could see that there wasn't a whole lot of usable safety/plug diameter I could work with, considering Dr.Skinner advertizes his sights as fitting the somewhat larger Marlin factory D/T'ing.

So, I emailed Dr.Tim, and asked him IF, & how much $$$ it would be, he could/would make me a special-order Lo-Pro with a 6-48 stem (like standard scope mounts).
Dr.Tim said he would make one in any size I wanted (6-48, 8-40, 10-32, etc) at the same $$$ - so I ordered one and D/T'd the safety body 6-48 after grinding off the "ears" and the lower 1/8" of the safety body (the half-diameter section), which interferes with the firing pin when/if rotated.

The same retainer crosspin holds it in place, but I thinned & cold blued Dr.Tim's locking wheel so I could lower the sight even more.

I suppose I could have used a much larger threaded stem and D/T the safety hole in the bolt - but then , if I ever sold the rifle, it would have been hard to restore it to issue condition.
This way, All I have to do for restoration is to obtain another safety, and re-install the rear barrel sight.

It happens to be on a .45 Rossi, and zeroed perfectly with the issue front sight blade - to which I applied a drop of orange sight paint, for EZ pickup.
The chambering doesn't seem to make much difference, though - since I've also gotten similar results on .357 & .44 Rossi's.

Any windage adjustments must be made via the front sight - but the ones I've done required less than 1/16" of front sight movement, most likely because the safety is on the FP/bore centerline.

BTW - I believe Rossi has discontinued ALL Model 92 production !
If you go to the various disrtibutor/partner's websites, like Taurus, the "Rossi rifle" and "lever action rifle" links kick you back to the Rossi website, where there's none to be found any more.

.

[Dogg]

Well as much as I like that set up, it is a bit to complicated for someone like me to do but it sure does look nice. Guess I need to take an evening course in machine shop or something.

Another question, do you have to dismantle the bolt to get the safety off or can the pin just be drifted out with the bolt in the gun? If nothing else I am going to scrap that safety and see if I can get a plug for the hole. Makes no sense having a safety on a hammer gun!

By chance has anyone used the Skinner barrel mounted peep on a 92?

[cajun shooter]

Dogg, Use that info that I posted and told you about. Stevezguns can do the safety for you. The bolt has to be reblued after his removal of the safety. He does have a plug. Call and he does not charge for questions. Best time is after 6:30 pm There will be no more Hartford 92's but Taurus bought all the rights and will be selling them. They have been made in the same factory for over 35 years. It's just different importers. Puma, Navy Arms, Legacy, EMF and now Taurus. EMF wanted Taurus to sell them the guns and Taurus Refused.

[Dogg]

Hey Cajun Shooter do these 24" Hartfords have a plug in the magazine? They look like they should hold more than 10 rounds but when I look at the parts diagram there is no plug listed. I assume the screw going through the magazine tube into the barrel goes through the plug right. IS there anything unconventional that happens when the end cap is removed other than relieving the spring tension. I really need to get that dvd from Steves Gunz

[Treeman]

Cajun, FWIW, The Legacy info says that their Puma is now being made in Italy. I just got one and was pleasantly surprised at how smooth it is out of the box. It makes me wonder if someone has ben paying attention to the "fix" issues regarding burrs and springs and at least tamed the springs.

[cajun shooter]

That's now and my posting was referring to the past. The 92's have been made and are still being made in South America also. I have not had any of the Italian made guns in my hands. It depends on which company is making them. If it's Armi Sports then I would not buy one and stick with the South American gun. Some one who has been making the gun that long has a better fix on it. I have owned 4 of the ones made in SA and they all were great guns. The rest of the Italian gun makers have tried to have Armi Sports do a better job and have failed. Do you have any information on which maker has the contract? I saw the $1000 price tags which are twice what a SA gun cost.

[pietro]

The issue safety is easily removed via drifting out it's retaining crosspin with the bolt fully open.

Although Steve will sell you a plug for $20 (he says it's a drop-in), I made my own for another Rossi.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0331.jpg

NO bolt work, or rebluing was needed - except for a bit of cold blue in the "S"/"F" colored stampings next to the safety hole after I removed the green/red paint with a toothpick.

BTW - I am NOT a gunsmith or machinist, nor do I have any tools that almost any homeowner should have - like a hand drill, a bench grinder, and a selection of hand files.
I'm not advising someone to get into a job that's over their head.
I seem to be comfortable, over the last 50 years with doing my own gun repair/mods - but if anyone isn't/can't, a decent gunsmith usually charges about $10-$20 per hole for a D/T job.
The Skinner Lo-Pro mounted in the issue safety, requires only one hole be D/T'd after the safety is filed or ground flat.
Simple pimple.

.

[Dogg]

Thanks for the info Pietro, I will pop that safety myself. Just on the cautious side since I have never even seen the insides of a leveraction gun before and am not sure what little pins, screws and springs can go flying out never to be found again.
By chance can you tell me if there is a plug in the magazine to limit it to 10 rounds since I haven't got an answer to that yet.
I just don't want to do something stupid like I have in the past with my motorcycle and take something apart that I can't get back together. Then I fell like a stupid !?!ss and the wife never lets me forget.
Definetly need another rear sight though. Tried to rough bench the .357 yesterday using the fence for a rest and at 25yds it is shooting about 4" high and no adjustmet available on the stock rear sight.
I got a lot of work ahead of me, need to come up with a decent bench for shooting. Going to get some 55gal drums and fill with dirt to use for a back stops so I can recover my lead every so often. And need to set up my old Dillons so I can start running off ammo. Big problem here is there is no lead available for molding. Seems the State and Feds or making the tire dealers send their wheel weights back in for re-smelting, so they aren't available.

Again thanks everyone for your input and advice it is greatly appreciated.

[pietro]

[The 92's have been made and are still being made in South America also.]

No longer true - Rossi has removed all leverguns from their website, and levergun links at their importer/partners, like Taurus, send you back to the Rossi website.

Dogg - Leverguns don't generally come from the factory with magazine plugs, AFAIK - but I suppose one could have been inserted for whatever reason.

None of mine do - but they're all short-barreled, w/8-round mags.

It's easy enough to check - After ensuring the chamber's empty, remove the vertical screw from the bottom of the front end of the mag tube.
Work out the mag tube end plug, controling it with the hands - since it's under a bit of pressure from the mag spring.
Withdraw the spring and any capacity limitation plug (rod/dowel).
The follower will drop out the front with a little tapping - many change theirs from plastic to metal. I made mine from brass, but one can be made from a .40S&W empty case with a bumped up case mouth ( for a .357).

After the follower's replaced, install the mag spring, gradually working the forward loose end into the tube a coil at a time while a finger holds what's already inside in there - until it's all inside enough to grab the end plug and pop it in/re-install the screw.

.

[Dogg]

There is a plug in the 24" barrel Hartford magazine, 5.5" of plastic. Now removed.

However, while doing this I notice I am missing a screw on the left side. A diagram I found on the internet say this is the Lever & Breech Block Pin Hole Plug Screw but I can't tell if there is anything attached to it internally. I finally found the screw but nothing else, the screw is loose in the thread and when tightened down locks the bolt. I don't want to locktite this screw in place till I know if there is something attached, Pietro, Cajun Shooter am I missing a part or do I just locktite it in? Do all these screws need to be locktited? Several were loose!

[pietro]

The bolt pin hole plug screw's threads should be a fairly good fit in it's hole threads, and should have a shoulder either on the screw or in the hole to tighten against so that it won't bind the bolt's travel.
If it doesn't - then it's been overlooked during production or deliberately short-cutted to save money.

If you have to, it may be locktited in place, since it's only removed to allow the pin connecting the lever tip to the bolt to be driven out from the right side during disassembly, through the tiny hole directly opposite the much larger plug screw hole.

If you do use Loc-tite, use only the blue-colored fluid (regardless of container color), as it's fairly easily removeable.
Red and/or green Loctite is MUCH harder to remove.

.

[Dogg]

Thanks Pietro, apparently this one didn't get what it was supposed to because the screw does not snug down without locking up the bolt. Guess I will locktite it in.
Thanks
Wade

[Dogg]

Made a magazine follower out of a 40s&w case this morning, cut the case about 1/2 off then flared it out using 500gr HOrnady solid for my .458, seems to work fine (so far) couldn't really come up with something to flare the case mouth nice and square, the case always collapsed. Guess if it fails I still have the little plastic follower. Pietro what did you use to flare the case mouths, did you end up with a nice squared stop on the case or did you just flare the case?
Also what did you use to make the safety replacement plug, think I will try to do that also.

Question to anyone who has one of the Taurus tang sights, do they marked for range? Did you change your front sight? My front sight needs to be replaced with something taller to get the buckhorn to zero at 25yds, shooting about 3.5 inches high. Was looking in the Brownell catalog at a Marble contour front sight, .375. The best I could do measurement wise with my limited skills was around .340 for the original front sight. Was also looking at the Lyman Target front sight with changeable inserts, anyone have any experience with one of these on a 92? I know i like them on my Ahshutez. Will still need trigger work it is way to heavy and has more creep than I like. Kinda waiting for my .44mag Hartford to come in this week before ordering, cause will probably need to order 2 of everything. So while I wait any suggestions on sights or things I can do my self would be appreciated,
Wade

[fecmech]

The taurus sight is not marked for range, I put a white dot on the elevation and windage knob once I got it sighted with my base load. I count clicks from there up or down depending on what I'm shooting. With my 20" bbl 3 clicks is about 1"@ 50 yds and it works fine with my stock front sight and my friends EMF 20" was fine with stock front sight. You will obviously need to remove the buckhorn sight from your barrel also. Make sure you mark your windage knob as the windage knob will occasionally move with flipping the sight up and down. No big deal as long as it's marked because you will see it immediately.
All of that said I may eventually drill and tap my receiver for a Williams Foolproof like I have on my 94 Winnie, the tang sight is a little disconcerting under my thumb when I'm shooting and handling the gun. Magnum loads hit my nose with my thumb if I forget and don't position it right. Again this is no big deal,just a minor annoyance but I wanted to give you the benefit of my experience with tang sights.
If you have ever done any trigger work the 92 trigger is an easy one. I used my .45 auto trigger sear jig to change the sear angle slightly and add a break away angle to it. That got rid of the creep and I have a nice 2 lb. trigger with the stock hammer spring. The main problem you are facing is the trigger return spring. It is a very heavy flat spring which you can grind it thinner or buy an after market spring. That will lighten your trigger considerably but will not get rid of the creep. Hope this helps.

[pietro]

I made a brass .357 follower, the same as in this tutorial:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,173608.0.html

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0342.jpg

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0343.jpg

And the safety plud from an old crossbolt safety button, the same as in this tutorial:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,173576.0.html

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0327.jpg

.

[Dogg]

Are you Rangr44? Those are really nice but can't say I have either items laying around. I may try flairing out another 40s&w case and see if I can get a plug that matches the original follower better. Guess I will buy the safety replacement.
Thanks Peitro for all the information I really appreciate it and it has given me insight into my new Hartford's

fecmech thanks for the info on the sights and the trigger. I may put the taurus on the .357 but think I will get a Skinner for the .44. I think I would find the Taurus sight a bit strange that close to my nose and also laying in the grip area of the rifle. I am pretty sure I am going to put a taller front sight on and see if I can leave the buckhorn or maybe see if I can find a take off fold down rear sight from a marlin and make it work. Really don't want the tang sight as the only sighting system.

Again I thank you both for your input

[Dogg]

Well, I got my .44 mag Hartford yesterday, and I love it. In fact I like it so much I don't think I will need the .357 which I got a week and a half ago. Anybody want a .357mag Hartford? I may get rid of my .44mag marlin 1894 also.
This new .44 is one of those rifles that 'just fits me right', I haven't run in to that in a long time. Did notice that the steel butt plate transfers more umph to the shoulder than the rubber pad on the marlin. Not complaining but maybe someday will put a butt cuff on it.
Also ordered a Skinner barrel mounted peep sight and a taller front sight. Will be curious to see how all these things work together. Now if I just had some 310gr lee rfn bullets to try in it I would be set.
One of these days I will get everything coordinated and hopefully the weather won't be so unbearably hot and I will actually get to bench everythig and see how they work, off hand just doesn't give me a good picture since I am getting old and unsteady.

[Old Ironsights]

Glad you like the 44.

FWIW, a crescent buttplate is not really designed to be "shouldered" like you do with a shotgun-style butt plate.

The steel crescent is supposed to fit snugly into the notch created by/between your bicep & shoulder joint rather than in the "shoulder pocket".

Try it. Makes a HUGE difference.

[Dogg]

Well I have willingly given my wife the check book as of this afternoon.
Bought a 1895 LTD V off GunBroker so will have to start getting info on this caliber now also. 4 leveractions in as many weeks is getting to look like I have an addiction. I must step away from them. Would like to sell my 1894 20" .44mag Marlin if anyone is interested. Also if anyone has a set of dies and more 45/70 brass than they need I have a lot of stuff to trade or if the price is right buy. Also need more .357mag and .44mag brass. I need a job I am spending way faster than my allowance can handle.

[pietro]

Wade - This is what an alternative peep sight looks like on an untapper/undrilled Model 92 - whether from Rossi, Miroku, whomever.

It's a Williams 5D-94AE ( a FoolProof FP-94AE is designed exactly the same) that's meant to fit the factory rear scope mount holes atop the rear portion of the Winchester Model 94 Angle Eject receiver side walls.

The subject M92 rifle needs to be D/T'd with one hole in each rail to accept it, of course - but there are advantages to it, over a side-mount peep.

Because this peep carries the horizontal sighting bar BEHIND the sight base ILO atop it, the line-of-sight is much lower, allowing EZ use of issue height front sight blades.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0385.jpg

As can be seen, just below the rear of the peep sighting bar, I've ditched the bolt top safety, and replaced it with a handmade plug that sets barely above flush with the bolt top.
"Flush" doesn't work, because the old safety's detent channels are exposed (ugly) - so a replacement plug with a top flange slightly larger than the hole hides the channels nicely.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0331.jpg

.

[Dogg]

Finally cooled off enough to get out this morning and sight both the .357 and .44 in. And I must say I am happy.
Had to put a taller front sight on the .357, with the stock front and the rear sight laying on the barrel it was shooting about 8" high. I had a Lyman that was a bit higher and still with the rear sight on the barrel finally got it to print dead on at 25yds. Using some olddddddd reloads that were 158cast over 11.2gr of AA#7. When all was said and done it would cut the same hole every shot. Must say though I don't care for shooting buckhorn sights.

The .44 did the same would hold all shots touching (240gr cast over 12.2gr AA#5) but was a bit easier since I had put a skinner barrel mounted peep sight on it and left the front sight tall that Dr. Skinner had sent me so I could get my cheek up off the stock and not irritate my TMJ. The .44 has a good trigger but could still be lighter.
The .357 trigger has creep and is heavy. I haven't shot open sight on a rifle other than my Anchutes for years and the eyes don't work so well anymore, but it sure was fun and it will be more fun when it really gets cool and can practice without sweating all over my guns.

Can't wait to see how the SS .45colts will shoot!