Lube Choices??

[ANeat]

Hello everyone, Ive been getting back into casting again and trying to decide on a lube. Lots of choices out there:confused: to either or make my own. I want a hard lube just for general ease of handling and loading. I see some folks advertise there lube smokes less that others, what ingredient in the lube will make it smoke more or less?? Im looking at mostly handgun loads, 9 , 40, and 45 but im not ruling out the posibility of a rifle load in the future. It would be nice if I had my lube/sizer loaded up with lube that I could use it on both. Ill be using a Star sizer with heat.

Ive been doing a lot of research here, great site:-D . I came across Lar45's stuff and it looks real good; as well as a few recipes where guys brew their own.

Thanks for any tips; Adam

[Bass Ackward]

I want a hard lube just for general ease of handling and loading. I see some folks advertise there lube smokes less that others, what ingredient in the lube will make it smoke more or less??

Im looking at mostly handgun loads, 9 , 40, and 45 but im not ruling out the posibility of a rifle load in the future. It would be nice if I had my lube/sizer loaded up with lube that I could use it on both. Ill be using a Star sizer with heat.

Ive been doing a lot of research here, great site:-D . I came across Lar45's stuff and it looks real good; as well as a few recipes where guys brew their own.

Thanks for any tips; Adam

Adam,

Welcome back and to the board. The most referred to component and smoking is Alox. I don't find it objectionable in it's reloading form, but it is a bit much unless your prevailing wind doesn't blow back in your face. Alox lubes work well up to about 40,000 psi level and probably are the "easiest" to achieve accuracy with. Felix lube recipe and instructions are posted at the top of this section of "Cast Boolits" for a purpose. But you have to make it. You can make it light or heavy with lanolin based on your intended purpose. We have guys here that sell, like Bullshop who has a full synthetic that is very good in cold weather or hot. So your lube choice must be determined across the temperature range and shooting style that YOU prefer. Without that information, it is going to be tough to make a recommendation. Or you can simply guy a stick of several and pan lube with it until you decide. Picking you a lube is akin to picking you a wife. Would help if we knew you better.

I shoot rifle very slow and at high velocities. I can be patient like Job until the barrel cools. But that handgun is for fun and by golly it is going to crank. Plus I shoot soft lead that I don't want to stick under those conditions. So I need a good high viscosity lube in both applications just in case. And most loads are taylored for an August climate here. Another easy lube to make is Lithium based. Which is auto store lithium grease and bees wax in a balance that produces the hardness you want.

You can "Search" using the function at the top of this board to find humteen threads on this issue. So you have your work ahead of you. I look forward to your feedback on your use and other issues.

[buck1]

Bass covered it very well. I have not used it but Bullshops Lube should serve you well ,as most everything he sells!
For the handgun cals you mention , just about anything will work to a point .
But I will second Bass once again on the lithium grease/ bees wax combo.
Off hand I would say ROUGHLY....4parts(or more) bees wax-1part grease and a little Gulf canning wax to harden to taste. This lube is quick and easy to make (OUTSIDE).
Dont over look the Johnsons paste wax for tumble lube, a search will give all needed info. Good luck & dont forget that its all flameable.....Buck

[44man]

A lot of good stuff for sale from the guys here. Don't overlook any. I like Felix lube, cheap and easy to make and it works. I would NOT use hard lubes for the handguns. You have to make a mess to get accuracy, don't look for easy handling stuff, look for what works.

[KTN]

Must agree with 44man.Soft lube is the way to go.I will be making my first batch of Felix lube soon.


Kaj

[seagiant]

Hi,
I'm going to put in my easy made favorite. This is a lube reciepe from Mr. Glenn Fryxell(if I remember correctly!) It's one part moly grease,Coastal, Exxon, ect. from an auto parts store and one part high quality beeswax and then you can add parrafin canning wax that you get at the grocery store to make it as hard as you want! This lube has worked excellently with my NEI 44.mag 350gr. bullet shot in my 12'' Contender with a healthy dose of surplus H110 pushing it along.Never had any leading and as this is probably as fast or powerful as I shoot,I've been happy with it. Good luck!

[johnho]

I notice that no one ever mentions Magma lube. I've been using it since I started casting no long ago and have had no problems with it and it's pretty reasonably priced at about $1 per stick. It's hard so you need a heater. I load 45 and 38 and am now getting into 308 rifle, maybe it won't work as well in the rifle but for now I'm trying it.

[LAH]

I've used the Magma lube some. Never tried it in rifles though. It seemed to work fine in sixguns but one stick is all I had........Creeker

[buck1]

Creeker!! I have been missing your posts!! Its good to hear from ya!! ....Buck

[ANeat]

I would NOT use hard lubes for the handguns. You have to make a mess to get accuracy, don't look for easy handling stuff, look for what works.

Thanks for all the replys and info everyone:drinks:

So 44man; Im curious as what you mean by making a mess to get accuracy??

One thing I do is shoot bullseye, so accuracy is very important. Ive shot some comercially available cast bullets with hard lube that are very accurate. If I can duplicate that I would be very satisfied.
At times we have to stand out in the sun shooting timed and rapid fire and Im not sure what would happen with the soft lubes sitting out in the sun for a couple of hours.

Back to more searching...........

[44man]

Well, I make my Felix soft and sticky. Then I don't size so I put it on the boolits by hand and run them through either a home made tube or an oversize Lee size die to remove excess lube. Then when I seat them, lube gets in the seat and crimp dies and on the cases. Have to wipe cases and clean the dies once in a while.
Makes a mess, but on the average the stuff is more accurate in more guns then any lube I have used. I've had some luck with a few harder lubes in certain calibers but across the board, I don't like them. LBT Blue works real good because it is not brittle. Any lube that becomes brittle and falls out of the grease grooves or gets thrown out in chunks when shot, is no good for handguns. I am very leery of any lube that needs a heater.
I was sent a box of boolits and when I opened the box, half the lube was in the bottom. I picked it out and softened it so I could get it back in the boolits. I shot a nice 4" to 6" shotgun pattern with them. Before blaming the boolits, I removed the lube from the rest and put Felix in them. I then put 5 shots in an inch at 50 yd's.
The only way you will know if the lube is good is to shoot groups with each lube. Just going bang with reduced leading is only half the solution.
The lube is as important for accuracy as any other component.

[LAH]

Creeker!! I have been missing your posts!! Its good to hear from ya!! ....Buck

It's good to be here Buck. Just getting settled after the move. Hope to finish what work needs done and get back to shooting before summer's over. Bench needs built, presses mounted, casting pot & luber set up. So for now it's the Ruger Single Six, S&W K-22, Marlin 780, & Winchester 75. Guess a man could do worse.

[357maximum]

Heres my 4 cents worth


If you wanna make your own multi purpose lube start with felix and add NO parraffin, then adjust the bwax until it is what you want, a hard bwax lube will do it all if the balance of oils and wax are achieved to what your cannons like. This can only be done by playing with recipe ,/ shooting for groups. The dislike for many commercial hard lubes is due to the fact they add too much paraffin. Paraffin bad, beeswax good


If you want to buy a lube that has already been tweaked/tested for perfection contact LAR45 and buy some of his carnuba red blend.

[Dale53]

44man;
>>>The only way you will know if the lube is good is to shoot groups with each lube. Just going bang with reduced leading is only half the solution.<<<

AMEN!
I have always had a standard for handguns to break an inch at 25 yards (at least a full cylinder full or even better TWO cylinders full). Every lube that eliminates leading will not shoot that well. The problem is that it takes a pretty good shooter to shoot this well off sandbags. This is particularly true with iron sights. Scopes and dots make it a bit easier but it still requires a pretty good person behind the gun. Maybe that's why you see so many comments about "my lube doesn't lead" as if that were the only criteria.

Years ago I was instrumental in my club buying a Ransom Rest for handguns. Any member, after being "checked out" on operating the rest, could use it any time he or she wished. You would be surprised what we learned about crimps, lube, and cast bullets (as well as swaged and jacketed bullets). It is a great learning tool and it also is constantly on hand to prove or disprove load elements.

The major thing I found is pretty obvious - when the gun and load is better, so is your final score. It also works in the field. The better the gun shoots the more, cleanly killed, game you will have. It just flat inspires confidence and WE ALL KNOW SHOOTING IS A HEAD GAME...

Dale53

[44man]

Dale, I see you know how it all works and I appreciate your input because you are right on the money.
357, good idea to harden with beeswax. I never tried it because I never harden mine, I like soft and sticky.
Lar makes good lube from what I hear, someday I might get some to test. Same old problem of fixed income.

[ANeat]

The standard I try to get in my Bullseye gun is 2" or less with 10 shots at 50 yards from a Ransom rest. I can achieve that with some swaged and some cast bullets. That is what I want to get with my own cast bullets.

You can really tell when you get a hold of some bad bullets when using a Ransom rest at 50 yards. Most bad bullets Ive tried throw groups out in the 5 inch range.

I keep reading good things about Lar45's lube as well and that will be my first one to try. If all goes well it will be my last to try.:-D

Its nice getting on here and being able to make a more informed decision before buying.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Adam

[stocker]

I ordered and received 25 sticks of Lar45's red lube. Haven't tested anything with it yet but it looks purty and feels about right.

His price for 25 sticks was about the same as 5 - 6 sticks of the big name commercial lubes I have been using. I'll learn to love it for that reason alone and all reports say it's also very effective. It's a win-win situation.

[Bucks Owin]

ANeat, I'm in the same situation as you are in regard to deciding on a lube. I've bought a 2nd hand 450 and got it all cleaned up and painted and overhauled and am wondering what to "fill 'er up" with. I shoot .357 and .44 mags to 1500 fps as well as at 850 fps for my wife and daughter's target loads. I'll be loading .45 Colt soon and I also have a .45/70 that I want to play with this summer and have cast up a bunch of 405 gr boolits for it. Expetc to drive these at around 1800 fps. I've decided to try some $1 a stick "Lar's lube" to tee off with, mainly for the great price! (Also, the old NRA formula has worked for decades, I suppose it STILL works) The savings on lube will buy a lot of primers.... comprende?

FWIW,

Dennis

Check it out at www.lsstuff.com

[StarMetal]

Buck,

I'd like to try some of Lars lube too, but remember now this lube isn't the good old NRA lube of 50/50 Alox 2138F/Beeswax. It's Alox 350 and beeswax. Whether Alox 350 is close enough to 2138F remains be seen. Now Javelina claims that they are using 2138F and where they are getting it from is beyond me, unless they had a wareshouve full of 55 gal drums of Alox 2138F.

Joe

[Bucks Owin]

Buck,

I'd like to try some of Lars lube too, but remember now this lube isn't the good old NRA lube of 50/50 Alox 2138F/Beeswax. It's Alox 350 and beeswax. Whether Alox 350 is close enough to 2138F remains be seen. Now Javelina claims that they are using 2138F and where they are getting it from is beyond me, unless they had a wareshouve full of 55 gal drums of Alox 2138F.

Joe

What kind of alox does Lee use in their tumble lube? I've had good results with that stuff, but now that I'll be sizing I figure to do away with the hassle of lubing that way....

Thanks,

Dennis

BTW, summertime temps reach 100+ degrees here for a couple months, would the "Carnuba red" be better to use then than the "white" stuff I wonder?

[StarMetal]

Buck,

I believe that is 350 Alox.

Joe

[357maximum]

BUCKS OWEN

If you get LARS carnuba red blend hot enough to melt it I hope you aren't in that type of heat with it, we would become a member short.

It just plain works

[StarMetal]

Yeah the red would probably be better, but let me tell you that I lived in Tulsa, Ok for sometime and I got through the summers with Javelina and really didn't have a problem and I've seen summers that were 115 or so.

Joe

[44man]

If it ever got that hot here, my lube would never melt anyway. I would not go outside to shoot and would stay in the basement working on stuff to shoot in the cooler weather.

[Dale53]

I have mentioned before that I have used NRA/Alox for years with excellent results (I also use Emmert's Home Mix for certain things). I had ONE failure. I spent a week at a shooting school in Columbia, Missouri (The Ray Chapman Academy). It was a terrific week. However, it AVERAGED 106 degrees for that week. The range (outdoors) was covered with crushed white limestone. I felt, along with the others, like we were being "Turned on a spit". My .45 ACP ammo (#68 cast semi wadcutters) was lubed with alox/beeswax. I had the ammo in a .50 caliber G.I. ammo can (original O.D. color). I made the error of letting the can sit in the sun no more than TWENTY minutes (after being there several days with no problems). Thereafter, I was plagued with misfires. The lube had melted and migrated to the primer and powder. I got a LOT of experience in "Clearing a .45 auto" however, so all was not lost:( .

If you keep your ammo in the shade you will be unlikely to have any problems. This was an extremely unusual circumstance (I was only out in it because I was at the school and had spent good money to get there). I met some extremely nice people and got to shoot with the likes of Mike Plaxco and Ray Chapman (a true gentleman) amongst others so it was definitely worth it. Never before or since have I had problems with lube.

I DO take precautions. When I am at a match, I keep the ammo in a cooler. No ice or anything, just the cooler. It cools down at nights (leave it in the van) and stays decent all day in hot weather. I do NOT let ammo sit out in the sun - I do NOT let ammo sit out in the sun,,,

Dale53

[buck1]

Yeah the red would probably be better, but let me tell you that I lived in Tulsa, Ok for sometime and I got through the summers with Javelina and really didn't have a problem and I've seen summers that were 115 or so.

Joe
Joe,
Your slick 50 lube (well my vershion of it, + a little more grease -atf) seems to handle the New Mexico summers ok. And I bet it would handle the tasks at hand also..........Buck

[StarMetal]

Buck,

Yeah, actually my Slick 50 One lube is a tad harder then the NRA 50/50 stuff, but I make it that way. Still soft enough to work through my luber/sizer without heat. I'm glad it's working for you.

Joe

[Old Jim]

My best homemade is a molygrease/beeswax recipe that I got off of this site. Decided I didn't like it because of the color. Went back to it because of the performance. Flows nicely thru my RCBS sizer and stays put on the bullets.

[Bucks Owin]

Yep, that's something one learns in a hurry when you live in a hot climate. Not just because of melting lube but high pressures too! When I'm out varminting with a "hotrod" jacketed load, they don't sit in the sun! (Or the chamber for very long...)

Think I'll just go with some of the "NRA formula" and see how it goes. Thanks for the input guys....

Dennis

[Doggonekid]

I just got several tubes of Thompson's blue lube from Midway. I thought it would be easier to work with. I haven't given it much thought as to soft sticky lube (like RCBS cold lube) would be any more accurate than a harder lube. I don't shoot in competition so I am not it it would make a big difference to me. Sometimes working with something that is easier is good. I really believe that you guys know more about this subject than me and so now I feel the need to experiment and see for my self. Thanks for everyones two bits on the subject.

[osteodoc08]

Look up RandyRat here. Get his tac1 and call it done.

[randyrat]

Wow! osteodoc08 I appreciate that a lot.

Many enjoy using TAC1 and it is a very successful lube, but it does have it's limitations for heat, I mean real hot weather. So I worked on a second lube TAC X for warmer weather. It ain't perfect but it works for 99% of applications you need in hot weather.
If your in 100+ Deg F weather, your in the oven and you better protect your ammo or have a very high melt temp lube.

Chances are your "very high melt lube" won't be worth a darn in cooler temps or at the minimum it won't hold the same zero. Just ask the guys working on the Lube quest, I gotta give em credit, it's a tough challenge and they have given a lot of info out here on their time and dime.

One more thing, the lube has to be easy and affordable to make with ingredients you can find.