Homemade bhn tester

[XWrench3]

i have been thinking about a bhn tester for a couple of weeks now, but i have spent so much money in the last few months on getting my casting going, i am tapped out (and then some). is there a way to make a homemade bhn tester untill my money replentishes itself? i was thinking about something like a ball peen hammer, a hinge, and a dial caliper (to see how much the bullet deforms). anyone tried something similar??? the biggest problem i see with this set up is i have no idea how much any of it will deform.

[HamGunner]

I think there is a good sized thread on the subject down on the Special Projects section.
"Hardness tester ------

[GP100man]

i want to know how ya get money to replentish "itself"????

LLOOLL!!!!

[cajun shooter]

Please send plans on your money replensher and I will forward plans for BHN tester. Then you might want to dig into the pile and extract enough to buy one of Gussy's tester. It will last for several generations and you will be running around looking for things to test.

[calaloo]

There is a method for determining the hardness of a lead alloy that is accurate, easy to do, and requires almost no money. First you need a sample of pure lead sometimes called chemical lead. This can be purchased from Midway and will be your major cash outlay. Next you need a ball bearing. The test is done by placing the ball between the piece of pure lead and the sample you want to test and squeeze in a vice untill both pieces are indented. If the sample being tested is harder than pure lead the diameter of the indents will be different. There is a formula that I don't have at my fingertips that will give you the BHN of your alloy. I'm sure you can easily find the formula online as well as a better discription of the test.

[XWrench3]

want to know how ya get money to replentish "itself"????


yep, i figured i would get a few comments on that one! LOL! it "replentishes itself" at the end of every month. whatever is left over after all the expenses, the other 1/2 and i divide. lately, with the kids out of school, there hasn't been much left. they get bored easily, and want to do things all of the time. go figure. of course, living where there isnt many kids to play with doesn't help that battle much. oh yeah, and every once in a while, a new $100.oo bill grows on the money tree out back. i get to keep those as i planted and water that tree.

[jonk]

I've often thought that a torque wrench could be used to this effect. Ratchet it down with a point at the end somehow and measure deformation against a known hardness.

I personally don't worry about hardness. If it's on paper and accurate and doesn't lead, good enough.

[HWooldridge]

The Lee tester is relatively inexpensive and gives easy-to-read results right out of the box. I have a side business doing machining and blacksmithing so I make a lot of my personal tools but some things are just easier to buy.

[shunka]

Try using graded pencils per Hellgates Easy Lead Tester:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9451.0.html

[bohokii]

it would be neat to rig up some kind torq wrench to of vice or press and use a bb (daisy steel) and caliper the mark but we need some info as to a proper squish pressure and deformation sizes

[lv2tinker]

Here is a couple of links that I used before I bought a Lee BHN tester. Worked very well. I compared it's results to the Lee and they were within one or two BHN.
Try different magifying glasses to see which one workes best for you when checking the ball indent. (I used a Daisy BB).

http://www.mountainmolds.com/bhn.htm

http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

I used a 20# weight on a Rockchucker Jr. and these are the numbers I entered into the "Brinell Hardness Number Calculator"
20#/9kg X 6.38 = 57.4
Ball size = 4.39" (Daisy BB) A larger BB may work better for you.
Indent = 3.38"
BHN =5.2 (Pure Lead)

Here is Link to the weight convereter I use:
http://www.unitconversion.org/unit_converter/weight-ex.html

Hope this helps...

[peter nap]

Here is a couple of links that I used before I bought a Lee BHN tester. Worked very well. I compared it's results to the Lee and they were within one or two BHN.
Try different magifying glasses to see which one workes best for you when checking the ball indent. (I used a Daisy BB).

http://www.mountainmolds.com/bhn.htm

http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

Cheers...

I've been wondering why you couldn't use a dial indicator like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/33600-33699/33675.gif

Mounted on an arbor press.
Zero it on the the surface of the test lead and then place a known weight on the lever.

Compare the depth it penetrates the lead to a known standard...

Sounds too simple....what's the catch???????

[briang]

it would be neat to rig up some kind torq wrench to of vice or press and use a bb (daisy steel) and caliper the mark but we need some info as to a proper squish pressure and deformation sizes

You could probably use a c clamp with the foot popped off the end off the screw and a nut welded to the top.

[XWrench3]

i think i like the torque wrench idea the bast so far.

[mrbill2]

Sliding hammer. Measure the bullet length before and after. Bullet base must be flat so that the bullet stands parallel to the guide rod. I made this to see how much the bullet expands when hit, but it will also show how much the bullet is compressed.

[lv2tinker]

I've been wondering why you couldn't use a dial indicator like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/33600-33699/33675.gif

Mounted on an arbor press.
Zero it on the the surface of the test lead and then place a known weight on the lever.

Compare the depth it penetrates the lead to a known standard...

Sounds too simple....what's the catch???????

If you don't have one, you have to buy it: $20 and up...

Cheers.....

[peter nap]

If you don't have one, you have to buy it: $20 and up...

Cheers.....

$9.98 at Harbor Freight.

[lv2tinker]

$9.98 at Harbor Freight.

Sweet.... I'll check out my local Harbor Freight...

[UweJ]

1 old Screwdriver, 5mm ball bearing ( usually found in the steering colum of bicycle) , drill, 2 comp.glue.
Cut the tip of the screwdriver and drill a slight dent into it. Take the 5mm ball bearing and glue it into the dent, just so it doesn´t slip out.
If you take your lead and place it on a normal bathroom scale press down on it untill it reaches 30 Kilo´s . Keep it there for 15 sec.
Measure the diameter of the dent and it will give you the bhn .
2.5 mm = 5 bhn ( soft lead for muzzle loading) black powder
2.4 mm = 6 bhn
2.3 mm = 7 bhn
2.2 mm = 7,5 bhn
2.1 mm = 8 bhn ( ACP,45 Colt,44-40 )
2.0 mm = 9 bhn
1.9 mm= 10 bhn
1.8 mm = 11.5 bhn ( .357, 44 mediums )
1.7 mm = 13 bhn ( 30-30 and such )
1.6 mm = 14.5 bhn
1.5 mm = 16.5 bhn
1.4 mm = 19 bhn

[lv2tinker]

A screwdriver with a BB on the end and a bathroom scale. How simple can you get.
"Love it".
30 kilograms = 66.1386787 pounds

[XWrench3]

now that is what i call shade tree engineering at it's finest!! also, a good example of the k.i.s.s. method (keep it simple, stupid!). i am going out to the garage right now 2 make one!
T H A N X ! ! !

[zxcvbob]

I don't know how you'd calibrate it, but a spring-loaded center punch ought to make a good hardness tester. Polish the point to round it over a little.

(I usually just use my thumbnail for a hardness tester)

[redbear705]

I don't know how you'd calibrate it, but a spring-loaded center punch ought to make a good hardness tester. Polish the point to round it over a little.

(I usually just use my thumbnail for a hardness tester)

I use a center punch as above and a dial caliper like the one in a previous post.

I try to get the same stroke for every test (not hard to do) and then measure the depth of the dent.

I use this method and only know the hardness by doing the test to known bhn from a good quality boolit.

For example a hard boolit the depth of dent would be about .012" (hard), the softest I have ever tested was .019" deep.

I made a set of v blocks but can be purchased cheap enough. and center the dial then make my mark and measure.

I did make a stand for my dial caliper but again one can be had for pretty cheap.

It works for me!

I am a cheap son of a gun, but I still get things done! :)

Hey maybe I should use that line in my sig!

JR

[Marlin Hunter]

I don't know how you'd calibrate it, but a spring-loaded center punch ought to make a good hardness tester. Polish the point to round it over a little.

(I usually just use my thumbnail for a hardness tester)

He might have got the info from the Lee tester. It may have a 5mm ball and he could have pressed it against a scale to see how much weight it took to raise the indicator to the flush position.

I think a spring loaded punch is not 100% repeatable. At least the ones I had never were.

[KAF]

Buy the book:

The Art of Bullet Casting and there is a article on making a hardness tester using a scale, ball bearing and drill press. It has all the info needed.

[UweJ]

Take a look at this site, it may be of help.
Uwe
http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

[klcarroll]

@Uwej;

Very Cool!! .......Thanks for all the good information!

......When I get home, I'm going to dig through my Junk Box!! .....I know I have a couple of small air cylinders; ....And I'm envisioning a little three inch wide "H" frame tester with a 1.5" air cylinder providing the "push".

God I love tinkering!! (LOL)

Kent

[XWrench3]

i have 4 different automatic center punches, 2 of them are snap-on. there is no way to get anything even resembling close repeatability out of any of them. heck, half of the time i have to work them 2 or 3 times just to get them to punch!
UweJ, that IS COOL! i created a shortcut , placed it on my desktop. i WILL be using that in the future!

[lylejb]

Ok, i just set up to try this. I set up like the mountianmolds link, and used the gordonengland link to do the math.
I used a 1/4" / 6.3mm ball, on a RCBS RS3 press. I measured and calculated the leverage as mountianmolds shows. I wasn't able to get the handle perfectly level (ingot was too thick) but i did calculate the leverage AT THE POINT I WAS USING IT. so i think it will work. it came out to 5.2:1 i used a 40lb bucket of ingots for the weight, for 30 seconds.

I tested an ingot of "pure" i smelted from stick on weights it was at BNH 8

i tested an ingot of WW, air cooled, it came out to BNH 15.

i tested a commercial "hard cast" .358 158 swc it came out to BNH 18

I think these numbers are all a little high???

i repeated the test with the same ingots, but applied the weight for 60 sec.

"pure" stick on ingot BNH 6.7
WW ingot BNH 13.5

that sounds more like it!

what do you think?

LB

[bkbville]

I played with a spring-loaded center punch; figuring I could measure the depth of the holes with my digital calipers and come up with some numbers. (I have the depth end of the slide dremeled very narrow.)

I compared some water dropped and un-dropped boolits, but didn't see a difference.

That wasn't sufficient evidence to kill the idea, but I figured I'll have to wait until I have some known hardness samples to compare.

[vinceb]

Using a dial indicator for hardness testing works pretty good . This tester uses a .125 ball at 100 psi . You need a few samples of known hardness to get started .

[ghh3rd]

An old thread, but interesting topic.

This was posted by qajaq59 last February, as a result of my question about making my own hardness tester:


fecmech put this in one of the forums a while back.....

There is a fairly easy way to measure lead hardness if you can get some pure lead to start with. Take your sample of pure lead, a small ball bearing and the unknown lead sample. Place the ball bearing between the 2 samples and squeeze this sandwich in a vise.

Remove the sandwich and measure the diameter of the 2 dents with a caliper and write down the readings. Square each reading (multiply times themselves). Divide the square of the unknown sample into the square of the pure lead sample and you will get a number larger than 1. (If you don't you went the wrong way).

When you get a number larger than 1 multiply it times 5 and that will give you the Brinnell hardness of your sample.

The reason you use the number 5 is because that is the Brinnell hardness of lead. The key is the pure sample and your ability to measure the dents but it is not difficult to do and is accurate.


I would imagine that the larger the ball bearing, the bigger the dent, and the easier to measure.

[kbstenberg]

Tonight i was re-attaching some loose mold handles with Gorilla glue. I found out that the glue foams as it cures. After whipping off the excess that expanded out of the handles, I got to thinking. Ya it hurt a little! I had the steel ball Uwej had described for his BHN tester. Also there was a quarter inch bolt on the table. I noticed there was a dimple on the thread end. I put just a dab of the glue on the end of the bolt then i placed the bearing in the glue. I will let it cure for a couple of days an report back if the bearing stays put on the bolt
" One small step for casters. One large step for mankind"
Kevin

[qajaq59]

Quite a while ago someone in here put me on to using a ball bearing and a known block of pure lead to test BHN. I scrounged a 3/4 inch ball bearing from a local garage and it's worked fine for me ever since. Plus it makes a good size dent, so I don't have trouble trying to measure it.

[Wireman134]

Lead Hardness Test
Here is a simple way to test the Bhn number of unknown lead samples: all you need is a caliper, two bottle caps, a vise, a 7-8mm diameter approx. size, paint can, ball bearing, and a known pure sample of lead.
1. Melt enough lead to fill one bottle cap with unknown sample, and the other with known pure lead. Make sure the surface is smooth and flat when the lead hardens and cools.
2. When the lead is cold, put the ball bearing between the two lead surfaces and squeeze this "sandwich" in the vise until the ball is driven partly into both surfaces (just enough to make a fair sized dent, but not past the middle of the ball).
3. Remove the sandwich and measure the two dent diameters. First measure the known pure lead dent and write down this number. Then measure the dent diameter in the unknown lead sample and write it down. Square both numbers (multiply times themselves). Then divide the resulting square of the unknown lead dent diameter into the square of the known pure lead dent diameter. This could be written as (L times L) divided by (X times X) where L is the pure Lead dent diameter, and X is the unknown lead dent diameter.
4. The answer should be a number of 1 or greater. If it is a fraction, or less than 1 in value, you have inverted the two dents and divided the wrong way. In that case, try again. When you get an answer that is 1 or greater, multiply it by 5. This is the actual Brinnell Hardness Number of the unknown sample.
The reason that you will always get a number of 1 or greater is that the ball will always go further into soft material (pure lead) than it will into hard material (any alloy of lead with tin, bismuth, antimony, etc.). Therefore, the diameter of the dent will always be smaller in the unknown sample, if it is harder than pure lead, or the same as the known pure sample, if it is also pure lead. When you divide a smaller number into a larger one, you always get something greater than one for an answer. Brinnell numbers are all greater than one. You must multiply the answer by 5 because this is the adjusting constant for pure lead, which is Bhn 5 hardness.
This method is as accurate as your sample purity and your ability to read the diameter of the dent. A smooth surface is necessary so you can get a clean diameter to measure. A rough surface will throw off the answer because you may not get a true diameter to measure, if one side of the lead surface is higher or wavy. But in general, this is as accurate a method as any that uses tools which cost less than $500. A reading with an accuracy of only Bhn plus or minus 0.5 will be more than sufficient for purposes of swaging. When the Bhn number actually increases from 5 to 10, or doubles, the pressure goes up by a factor of four, or the square of the increase in hardness. A number of 5-6 Bhn is close enough to be called pure for swaging purposes.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f96/Wireman134/BHNtest.jpg

[rayg]

See if Lee would sell their hardness tester with out the microscope which is probably the most expensive part of the kit. Then use their die to create the impression and measure it with calipers. In fact the calipers are even easier to use then the scope. Ray