Hornady gaschecks

[Swagerman]

A fellow forum member, RayinNH, sent me a packet of Hornady .45 caliber gaschecks to experiment with. Thanks, Ray, for your generous kindness to do that.

The Hornady gaschecks are the answer to my attempt to use Lyman brass ones in .44 caliber. The Lyman GC are about 20 or 30 years old and measure out at .426 diameter. They would spring back from being sized .430 to .4295 diameter and nothing I could do would change that.

Well, if I change brands to Hornady I don't think I'm going to have that problem anymore.

Just for fun I seated a Hornady .45 GC to a Lyman #429360 cast boolit and it locked on like a lobster on your little pinky when seated in the .430 lube die...and the good news was it measured out at .430 diameter.

However, this is not a practical solution to my problem, as the base of the bullet GC formed a dome like effect much like a heat shield on a returning space capsul.

But it proved to me that Hornady GC's are superior in fastening and forming the correct diameter when sized. I fully expect that the Hornady GC in .44 caliber will work equally well when run through the .430 sizer.

Thanks to RayinNH, I will be ordering a box of .44 and .45 caliber GCs from Hornady in the near future.

The guys on this forum are the best.

Jim

[C1PNR]

Did you try annealing those old Lymans? Might be you could salvage them if you took the "spring back" out of them.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used lyman 41s on 44s in a pinch too. They fit the .44s pretty well.

[Swagerman]

I've never done any annealing, how do you do it?

do you use a propane torch, how long do you apply the torch, is there a color change to the brass that lets you know when its annealed?

As to using .41 caliber GC on a .44 bullet, I doubt that would work well for me trying to have an end result be .430 diameter where the GC is seated...its presently coming out at .4295 using Lyman .426 GC...which is undersized to the lead bullets shank of .430.

Jim

[454PB]

I anneal the jackets I make for my Corbin dies in a Lyman casting pot. I put about 400 in the pot, a metal cover to hold the heat in better, then set the whole works on an electric hot plate. I guess you could use an empty bean can and a Coleman stove if you wanted. You might have to experiment to get the softness you want, I use my infrared heat gun and bring the pot up to 400 degrees, then shut it off and let everything cool.

[Cayoot]

I anneal the jackets I make for my Corbin dies in a Lyman casting pot. I put about 400 in the pot, a metal cover to hold the heat in better, then set the whole works on an electric hot plate. I guess you could use an empty bean can and a Coleman stove if you wanted. You might have to experiment to get the softness you want, I use my infrared heat gun and bring the pot up to 400 degrees, then shut it off and let everything cool.


Excellent idea!!!

I wonder if this method would work for brass too? Probably have to raise the temp a bit, but I wonder if it would be a way to more uniformly anneal rifle brass?

What do you guys think?

[Dale53]

Brass is differentially heat treated and work hardened. This leaves the mouth relatively malleable (to seal the gases behind the bullet) and the head hard to hold the pressure. I can't imagine a more dangerous practice than to anneal the "whole" case.

Dale53

[Cayoot]

Brass is differentially heat treated and work hardened. This leaves the mouth relatively malleable (to seal the gases behind the bullet) and the head hard to hold the pressure. I can't imagine a more dangerous practice than to anneal the "whole" case.

Dale53


Ouch!!! Good point Dale....thanks! There I go not thinking things through again!:roll:

[imashooter2]

I've never done any annealing, how do you do it?

do you use a propane torch, how long do you apply the torch, is there a color change to the brass that lets you know when its annealed?

As to using .41 caliber GC on a .44 bullet, I doubt that would work well for me trying to have an end result be .430 diameter where the GC is seated...its presently coming out at .4295 using Lyman .426 GC...which is undersized to the lead bullets shank of .430.

Jim

I anneal by putting the checks in a 1.5 inch close nipple with a bit of white paper and then screw the caps on loosely by hand. The whole thing gets tossed in the fireplace and when the ashes are cool I fish it out and remove the checks. The paper chars and uses up all the air in the pipe so the checks don't get corroded.

[felix]

When the Gator checks arrive, don't anneal unless you have to. Try them out first with each lead/mold/die combo. They all are typically are soft enough as determined by last years order of several calibers. ... felix

[454PB]

To anneal cases, I hold them by the head, then play the flame from a propane torch over the neck/shoulder area. Once the temperature rises to the point that it's uncomfortable to hold, it's done. You can either quench or just drop the case onto a piece of plywood. It sounds kind of weird, but it works well and avoids the old "tip over in water" part. You don't have to dry them, there ready for use in a minute or so.

[C1PNR]

I anneal by putting the checks in a 1.5 inch close nipple with a bit of white paper and then screw the caps on loosely by hand. The whole thing gets tossed in the fireplace and when the ashes are cool I fish it out and remove the checks. The paper chars and uses up all the air in the pipe so the checks don't get corroded.
If you don't have a fireplace, put the pipe in your barbecue grill, either when you're heating it up or when you're burning off the grease afterwards (gas grill).

I turn mine on high for about 5 minutes (I used to do 10, but propane is just too danged expensive these days) after the cooking is done to turn the grease, meat bits that stuck, etc., into ash.

I suppose if Bush and Cheney weren't in office Halliburton and the rest of the Oil Patch would be making a heck of a lot less money, and we would be paying $1.50 a gallon for gas and $5.00 to refill out propane tanks. Ah, well. So much for politics.:confused:

[Hairtrigger]

When annealing case necks the object is to cool them quickly....correct?

[Randy in Arizona]

IIRC the only reason to cool quickly is to limit the amount of oxidation.

imashooter2 has an excellent, cheap solution!


However, this is not a practical solution to my problem, as the base of the bullet GC formed a dome like effect much like a heat shield on a returning space capsul.

Don't worry the pressure of firing will flatten them out very nicely!

I have dug them out with them nicely formed around the sprue nub, or if I cut it too quickly, into the cavity where part of the boolit tore out with the sprue when it was cut off.

[Bullshop]

I have a question about the annealing thing. In my view the gas check is more than just an insulating disck between boolit and powder. It is also a mechanical means to increase the shear strength of the bullet, which should enable the bullet to be used at a higher pressure enabling higher potencial velocity.
For this reason I have always felt the check should be as hard as possible. I understand that many of you are not pushing your checked boolits to thier limit of pressure/velocity so it may not matter, but in that case are checks realy neccessary?
So this brings me to the question has anyone compaired annealed checks to unannealed checks with high pressure loads to find out if the softer annealed check does in fact lower the pressure/velocity potential .
Seam's to me the softer check would begin to degrade in accuracy at a lower pressure/velocity than the harder one. This is the reason I have never annealed gas checks. For boolit shanks that are too large to allow an easy fit I make a punch to open the check. In most cases the belling stem from a straight wall die set can be used for this also. If you have available an assortment of dies usualy a caliber or so larger works good. The rounded edge of the belling stem opens the check just enough as the flat end bottoms out in the check. For small calibers the neck expanding assembly with the primer punch removed works good. I use them with a small wooden hammer. For checks that dont crimp on tightly I have always felt that when compressed by the lands in the barrel and under the same pressure all arround they will be crimped tightly enough to the boolit to have the added mechanical strength to achieve the highest possible velocity with any given alloy.
Maybe not so, but these are just the thoughts that drift the empty caverns of my mind.
Remember I am not making boolits for a specific intention that I will load and shoot, but am making them for all the possible conditions they may be used or abused in by a customer that may have not the foggiest clue there is any difference between a cast or jacketed boolit/bullet and will invariably only see the red column of thier load book.
Anyone else have the same concern about softening checks?
BIC/BS

[454PB]

Let me say up front I've never annealed gas checks. My theory is similar to Bullshop's , but under the high pressures that call for a gas check, annealing might help form a better seal. I see gas checks as a "seal", rather than a scraper. When the boolit gets kinked in the butt with 20K of pressure, a softer check might conform better. Run the pressure up to 55K (as I do in my .454 Casulls) and it probably doesn't matter. There's a lot of information out there that tells us what alloy hardness we have to use for cetain pressure levels, but I use straight ACWW with a gas check in my .454's at what should be around 55K with very good results. Try that without a gas check and you have a real mess:roll:

[StarMetal]

Bullshop,

I've tested annealed gaschecks to high pressure. Full house loads in my 7mm-08. Some of the best shooting that caliber did too. My opinion is the annealed check is still harder then bullet alloy even though we think it's very soft. I've also used oversized gaschecks in my 8x56R, which has so very deep four groove rifling that recovered bullets looked almost square on the base and the gascheck was very cupped in too, yet that M95 Steyr shoots way better then it should. You can ask Buckshot and Oldfeller about how that recovered bullet looked as I posted pictures of if long time back before you came to the forum. As an aside my own homemade aluminum gaschecks are made of a very very soft aluminum and I've driven them pretty hard in various rifles without any problems. I haven't had the problem of unannealed gascheck not holding very hard bullet alloys, like linotype, and move like 44man says he has. I think gaschecks seal more then they scrape, but I do think being harder then bullet alloy they do sort of clean the bore some.

Joe

[Bucks Owin]

The Hornady GCs have an oversize "flare" around the rim that bites into the side of the boolit. I think that's why they work so well....

FWIW,

Dennis

[Swagerman]

I'm going for the Hornady copper GC, annealing just doesn't appeal to me...too labor intensive. I'd druther just use lead base bullets than get into annealing aspect.

So, hope the Hornadys GC will do the job.

Hey! Just found out that Widener's Reloading & Shooting Supply, Inc. has Hornady .44 caliber gaschecks for $20.50, and a Lee Lube-sizing kit in .430 diameter for a mere $11.50. But they are out of .45 caliber Hornady GC and don't know when they will get any more.

Jim

[Four Fingers of Death]

I anneal 308s and 3006 occasionally. I put five into a clip, hold them with a pair of multi grip piers and put the case mouths into the lead melt and hold them there for a short period. I than remove, ensure the lead has drained off and drop them into a bucket of water. I have seen a few guys anneal in the melt, but I thought why just do one at a time?

The most popular method I have seen is to place cases into a dosh with the water half way up the case, heat till red and then knock over into the water and move on to the next case. Never done it this way myself. I reckon the water would heat up quick and you would need an overflow and run new cool water continually through it.

[Lloyd Smale]

hornadys dont need to be annealed to stay on and in my experience even annealed the lyman checks dont stay on and like felix said gators are the class of the bunch and ive had absolutley no problem with them. As to what they do I know they help seal but theres not doubt in my mind that they scrape too. Just shoot a couple in a leaded up gun and see if they dont scrape some out.

[Swagerman]

My mail order came in today from Widener's Reloading and Shooters Supply, Inc. of TN.

Hornady .44 caliber copper .430 gaschecks, 1,000 of them to experiment with and I'm here to tell ya they work beautifully. No spring-back, they stay .430 when I lube size them in my Star lube doodad.

I just got off on the wrong foot with them dang blasted Lyman brass ones that were .426 diameter before sizing. I'm wondering if Lyman still makes them in that under size? Might be alright in .44-40 caliber, but not much good in .44 special or magnum.

Widener's also sent me a Lee lube sizer kit in .430 diameter, their prices are certainly reasonable as is their shipping rates.

Now, if they just get in some more .45 caliber gaschecks I'll be set for a year at least. :Fire:

Jim

[snowtigger]

Sportsman's Warehouse has Hornady gaschecks in stock here, in .44 and .45 caliber. Their prices are somewhat higher, but you don't have to wait.
Funny thing is; when they first opened, their prices were cheaper, but there is a local dealer that also has 'checks, and now they are real close to his prices....
Last time I looked, they were about $26.00 a thousand, that's 2.6 cents apiece:( .