does the lube melt [Archive]

Nate1778

08-08-2009, 11:52 PM

Tried my hand at pan lubing. This would be the wax, jelly, stp lube. First, is it supposed to be this slimy at room temperature. Second, what keeps the lube from melting in a warm chamber and run back to the powder. Third is it ok to have a slimy base on the bullet when loading or will it hurt the powder.

mooman76

08-09-2009, 12:13 AM

I don't pan lube but it should not be runny at room temp. If you mixed it yourself, it sounds like you need to add more something to make it stiffer like wax maybe. If you are talking alox you need to let it dry for a day. I use the aid of a fan to dry quicker.

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 01:14 AM

Jelly? Strawberry or grape? I made some of my own awhile back. Used the search function to find and compile a bunch of recipies. I had some beeswax so I concentrated on recipies with that as a component. Settled on 50/50 with vasoline for ease of mixing. Added just a little red wax from cheese and colored it green with a crayon (giant ones from the dollar store). It firms up just fine at room temp. I have not noticed any softening in the heat, but we have only seen upper 80s a few times this summer. I usually whipe the bases off on a cloth before loading them if there is a lot stuck on it, but don't know if the mix I have would do any harm if it did get in the powder. After pan lubing three or four casting sessions (6-800 at a time), I went back to LLA for all my pistol boolits. Just too much work until I get a lube/sizer. I still pan lube my 30-06 and SKS rifle boolits.

geargnasher

08-09-2009, 01:26 AM

That's funny, Eric. We see the 80s here in south Texas by about 10:00pm. 106 in the shade at 2:00 pm. Alox runs out of the crimps if you leave them in the sun for 15 minutes, currently working with FWFL to see if it can handle the heat, so far, so good.

Nate, you might do better to pan lube with FWFL, it's not difficult to make.

Gear

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 01:36 AM

I have thought about making some felix lube. BTW, I cannot imagine why someone would puinish themselves by living in a furnace! :mrgreen: Actually, we usually get a few 100s and a lot of 90s in July and August but you know with global warming we haven't seen them in these here parts this year...Hmmm...

geargnasher

08-09-2009, 02:17 AM

Nate, just thought of something else, if you DO decide to try the Felix lube, leave out the lanolin and go to 50-50 mineral/castor oil, in my small experience that will reduce the stickiness, or just leave 'em in the freezer a few minutes longer before punching out.

I choose to live in a furnace because (I swear) there was a chihuahua in the woodshed somewhere along the way and my skinny ass freezes below 50 degrees. I wasn't complainin' about ME being hot, just that some things designed for "normal" climates don't work so good here, kinda like things don't work when there's 10 feet of snow on the ground, just the opposite extreme!

Gear

Echo

08-09-2009, 02:18 AM

Snaggdit, I will check with you next January. I wash my car in my bathing suit in January...

(Scary thought, isn't it?)

shotman

08-09-2009, 02:37 AM

Gooy thats NOT pan lube. You pour it hot around the boolits and let it cool then cut or push them out. Those flexy pans that the dollar stores have are good

Marlin Hunter

08-09-2009, 02:53 AM

why are you using STP? That stuff does very little for the bullet. You might get some ZDDP on the bullet, but most (99.9%) of STP is gooo.

qajaq59

08-09-2009, 07:27 AM

I cannot imagine why someone would punish themselves by living in a furnace! Mainly cause it don't snow in furnaces. :-D

Rockchucker

08-09-2009, 08:28 AM

It's so hot down here in Florida that I don't have to use the heater on my lube/sizer with Carnauba Red or Orange magic lubes. It makes a mess if I turn it on for even a little while.

armyrat1970

08-09-2009, 08:45 AM

It's so hot down here in Florida that I don't have to use the heater on my lube/sizer with Carnauba Red or Orange magic lubes. It makes a mess if I turn it on for even a little while.

Heat? Oh yeah. Here in SouthEast Louisiana it is really hot around these times. Only times we have it a little cool is when it rains or have heavy cloud cover. Mid 90's with heat index well over. But I would rather sweat than freeze.:)

Nate1778

08-09-2009, 09:12 AM

Petroleum Jelly, not jam, and maybe I didn't word it correctly, when its hard it still leaves an oil on the fingers and bullets, just checking to see if its normal. What is FWFL?

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 09:22 AM

Well in my defence, I have found that a person can always wear warmer clothes but can only take so many off and then sweat to death. My FIL is currently working on a project in Tyler Tx and I have seen firsthand what you guys are talking about regarding carrying your ammo to the range in coolers. Anyway, just to try and help Nate1778 a little (and other newer guys) here are some recipies I compiled off the site. I cannot vouch for any specific one.

I have been using a Lithium - beeswax recipe provided by a professional caster for years in all my pistol bullets. Since Adrian Pittfield gave me the recipe I call it Adrian's Goo. it's soft, works fine with all pistol and makes MUCH less smoke than beeswax-alox :
1 lb Beeswax
1 tube Lithium grease (1 lb)
melt together not exceeding 275 dF (Flash point)

For rifle I use John Paul Jones' Saeco Green recipe ":
1# STP
1# Paraffin
1 # Beeswax
add all the green candle or crayons you need to color it green

hardern' nails, needs heat, works excellent for SKS

Felix Lube formula

2 Tablespoons mineral oil
1 Tablespoon castor oil
1 Tablespoon Ivory, or homemade soap (grated)
1 Tablespoon Lanolin
Beeswax - Piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1 "

Heat mineral (baby) oil until it starts to smoke.

Add castor oil, and stir continuously for 1/2 hour.

Sliver the soap, and stir into the mixture a little at a time, until melted.

Add the beeswax before the lanolin, and then when that is melted, reduce or remove the heat and add the lanolin, thus not running any risk of burning or scorching the lanolin.

1 teaspoon of carnuba wax can be added to give a shiny bore. This can be found on the seal of Makers Mark whiskey, or the red wax on cheese from the supermarket.

Once made, let cool. This can be remelted in a microwave, and poured into the lubrisizer.

Beeswax and Bullplate.
The mix is by weight 3 to 1, 3 beeswax to 1 bull plate.

Bullplate can be purchased from http://bullshop.gunloads.com/

Good thread to refer to:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ht=speed+green
Warf's Pistol Lube:

Beeswax & Virgin Olive oil.

Melt 8 oz. of bees wax then add 8oz. of Olive oil. Stir for apox. 2mins on low heat.

This mix runs threw a Star without a heat supply.
You can also use this mix as lip balm.

"California Saeco Green"
2 lbs Beeswax
2 lbs Paraffin
1 lb STP Oil Treatment
------------------------------------------------------------
Old NRA lube formula
1 part Beeswax
1 part Paraffin
1 part Vaseline
All parts by volume
------------------------------------------------------------
In a post by Chargar 071219:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ight=comprendo
60% Beeswax
40% Vaseline
"Has worked for almost 50 years in handgun and rifle loads up to 1,9 or 2k fps".
-----------------------------------------------------------
Barry Darr’s Lube
1 lb Paraffin
1 lb Vaseline
2 tablespoons (30 ml) STP Oil Treatment
-----------------------------------------------------------
Modified Barry Darr lube
1 lb. Paraffin
1 lb. Vaselin
No STP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lube Formula - Colorado Shooters

1/3 Candle Wax (140 Degree F Melting Point)
1/3 Cosmoline
1/3 Bowl Wax
4 oz. Olive Oil added per pound of lube

Ratio's are approximate and are non-critical. A little more or a little less of any
component seems to make no difference in performance. Candle wax is available at any
hobby store, which sells candle-making supplies. Cosmoline is available in small
quantities from suppliers such as Midway, USA, Inc. 1-800-243-3220 or
http://www.midwayusa.com . Bowl wax is available in any Home Depot or similar store.

************************************************** ****************************************

Buck Emmert's Lube Formula (for black powder)

1750 grains Beeswax
1368 grains Crisco Shortening (White)
328 grains Crisco or Wesson Vegatable Oil

This recipe makes 1/2 pound lubricant. If you tray lube as I do, you'll probably
want to double the recipe.

BPCR LUBE
1 pound Bees Wax

1 pound Citronella Candle

2 Tablespoons shortening

************************************************** *******************************************

Pistol Lube
1 part Beeswax

.75 parts petroleum jelly

.25 parts parafin (candle wax)

Rifle Lube
1 part Beeswax

.75 parts petroleum jelly

.25 parts parafin (candle wax)

I use the above recipe , doubled , then I add four tablespoons of automatic transmisson
fluid a four ounce bottle of LEEs liquid alox and a extra half pound of candle wax. I
adjust the amount of candle wax for winter and summer shooting......., a little softer
for winter and a little stiffer for summer.

I know, yall were expecting the "eye of newt" thing right? Sorry, its just not that big
of a deal.I use the lube with everything I shoot and I never have any leading problems.
I shoot a 170 gr cast bullet in a Model 94 over 29 grains of IMR 4895 with a magnum primer
useing this lube and never have I had any lead left in the barrel. Thats a jacketed bullet
load guys!As soon as I get the chrony in Ill get yall some numbers for that load .

One hint, if you can get your hands on a quanity of carnuba wax, use that in place of the
regular candle wax. I dont know what it is about that stuff but it will polish your bore
better than anything Ive ever seen , and a smooth bore is probably the single greatest
mechanical factor affecting lead bullet performance.

************************************************** *****************************************

I've had better luck with my Emmert's with lanolin than I have with SPG. Emmert's is,
as I understand it, an old Schuetzen lube, and it's simple and easy to make - always a
plus. It's

50% beeswax,
40% white Crisco (like Mama used to make biscuits with) and
10% canola cooking oil.

To that I've added about 6-7% anhydrous lanolin. The lanolin is a
good high temp, high pressure lube and it's sticky. It helps the lube stick to the
bullets, and helps make it better for pan lubing. Sure has seemed to keep the fouling
softer than the SPG seemed to, or at least in my gun it has.
The anhydrous lanolin can be ordered from your local pharmacy, but it'll probably be
cheaper to order it. Try a search for Majestic Mountain Sage. Can't remember the url
at the moment. It'll probably save you some money. The beeswax can also be had there,
if you have trouble finding a local bee keeper to get it from. The Crisco and canola
oil are at your local grocery.

This is an old lube but still has a following and has never failed me when using it
for Black Powder. I understand it can be used for smokeless if you are using
low-pressure loads.

50% bees wax
40% Crisco or lard
10% canola oil

I heat this in a dbl boiler to mix. Do not heat in a micro wave as it offers too much
heat usually. I fill my lubasizer with the lube while it is hot and it works well. I
have also pan lubed with good success.

cajun shooter

08-09-2009, 09:53 AM

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 12:24 PM

MN91311

08-09-2009, 12:26 PM

Snaggdit, Every place has it's + and - but you don't have crawfish stew, jambalaya, or shrimp etouffee. On and when the heat becomes unbearable as it was on Saturday you move to the AC. Now lets see what happens when you have a blizzard, oh yeah you don't do anything because you are stuck. Never heard of any snowbird retiring and moving to the north. If you took them all out of Florida it would regress to a swamp as it once was. Good posting on the lubes by the way, it should help any newbees.

I am a northeast Pennsylvania resident all my life. I am of Russian and Polish extraction. I think the Russian is dominant, I can't prove it. Remember that the Russian winter defeated Napoleon and Hitler when nothing else could. It's in the DNA, enjoy and prosper during the colder seasons, suffer the summer. I have suffered every one of my 62 summers here during the part when we get tropical weather fronts moving through. Anything above 90% in heat and humidity both, and I am laid low without hiding in AC. And I do field work for the power company outside mostly. I spent a week in the Bahamas recently, and enjoyed it, using the time of day to do what I wanted to do. But it was all funsies, I wasn't working outside.

Lots of retirees here move to Florida, saying they can't take the cold anymore. It turns out they can't take the Fla heat either. Without AC in their houses, cars, workplaces, or country clubs, they can't function.

What is the difference between hiding in the heated places here in the winter, and hiding in the AC places there in the summer ? Costs a lot to run ac, same as heating. What's the difference between paying for heat or ac ?

Why live and work in the north, retire, and move south ? When you retire here, you do not have to get up early, warm up the car anymore. You have all day or all week or all month to go to the market, doctor, etc. Schedule it away from the snow and icy weather. The bad roads are all clear by the afternoon. Stay inside in the AM, do everything in the off-peak afternoon hours.

A person disliking the cold and liking the heat should move south early in their lives, instead of waiting until retirement. After retiring, there is no more need to be exposed to the worst of the extremes of heat and cold. A person in the deep south whose house, car, workplace, stores, recreation are all AC, and does not have to mandatorily do things outside, will probably be ok. Most people are not able to have all that.

I believe that if modern AC, affordable by the working classes, was still not available, then Florida and all the deep southeast would still be sparsely populated. The south was explored long before the north by the early European explorers, so why then did Boston, NY, Philly, etc. all have huge populations when the south was still mostly wilderness ? Answer: high heat and humidity when most work was hard physical labor before machinery was developed. Look at the stats, the southeast population stayed very low until the post-WW2 advent of affordable AC.

As for me, I will be here in the NE as long as I live. And if I change my mind, I will move further north to escape the hot-humid part of our typical summers.

geargnasher

08-09-2009, 12:54 PM

Petroleum Jelly, not jam, and maybe I didn't word it correctly, when its hard it still leaves an oil on the fingers and bullets, just checking to see if its normal. What is FWFL?

Felix World Famous Lube.

Check out the sticky.

Eric, you're an overachiever:mrgreen: What a great list!

Gear

Recluse

08-09-2009, 01:40 PM

You yankees are a bunch of clueless chumps. :-D

Why live in a furnace?

When's the last time bikini season got extended in the frozen tundra of Minnesota?

To the original poster--check out the sticky on "Just the facts" http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=29683

Lots of good lube and lube recipe info there.

:coffee:

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 01:54 PM

I'm happily married! I don't even look anymore [smilie=1:

Tom W.

08-09-2009, 02:28 PM

I am a northeast Pennsylvania resident all my life. I am of Russian and Polish extraction. I think the Russian is dominant, I can't prove it.

It's gotta be the Russian part. My grandparents were from Poland and I love where I'm at...

Where I work, one of my tools is a thermometer, and if it's over 60 degrees inside the building, I start feeling uncomfortable.
It's just plain weird to see people coming out of 90+ degree heat wearing sweatshirts....but I tried it a time or two and now keep a spare in my truck...

Oh , I'm a Q.A. technician at a chicken processing plant...

mdi

08-09-2009, 02:29 PM

I've tried most of the home made lubes listed by snaggit and it is a lot of fun mixin' some up and shootin'. Lately I've been trying some load development in my .44s so I eliminited home brew lube in favor of a known good lube. I pan lube with Lar's Carnuba Red for my .44 Mag trials. I still have my "Old NRA Formula" that I customized waiting in the shed when I fine tune my loads.

Works for me!
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

As far as weather; I'm a sissy! Definately don't like hot. I delivered Dr. Pepper in Ennis Tx. one spring and summer a few years ago; 100+ degrees and 98% humidity. Never again! I'm headed for the Oregon coast where it gets all the way up to 75 degrees average, and 40s in winter w/no snow.

qajaq59

08-09-2009, 03:21 PM

We retired, sold our home up in New England and then spent 8 years traveling the beautiful USA in the motor home. Wherever you live we've probably spent a good chunk of time there. And everywhere in this country has something going for it. Note though, no one can beat the friendliness of the Cajuns or duplicate their wonderful food.

But we just settled way down in Florida a month ago and bought a house again. Why? Good fishing, I can shoot 12 months of the year without trudging thru the snow. And no cold weather to aggravate the arthritis in my spine.

On the minus side however, I have to admit that the lube melted off my cast bullets last week when I left them in the outside bin of the motor home. :mrgreen:

Nate1778

08-09-2009, 03:30 PM

I like where I live, we get all the seasons and they are all as advertised.

I guess what I was getting at is even though the lube is solid it leaves the bullet slick if you will. I am just wandering is anyone has had issues with powder contamination. Also when I shoot my Gp100 I can go through quite a few rounds in one session. It gets pretty warm, I am concerned that the lube will melt before the shot and run back to the powder.

I also noticed I am only getting about 25% fill in rate pan lubing. Last night I heated the bullets to 200F before adding the lube hopefully to aid in fill out. I am about to punch them out so we'll see if that helps. Anybody else have any advice for good fill out. Both times the cookie has been frozen.

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 07:13 PM

I also noticed I am only getting about 25% fill in rate pan lubing. Last night I heated the bullets to 200F before adding the lube hopefully to aid in fill out. I am about to punch them out so we'll see if that helps. Anybody else have any advice for good fill out. Both times the cookie has been frozen.
I had similar issues. I also ended up heating my boolits in a 200+ oven first then poured the lube around the bases. I found that if I lined the pan with waxed paper I could invert onto a cutting board as soon as the lube solidified. Then I placed a double layer of towel on the bases and placed a second cutting board over that and inverted the whole thing again. Then I could push on the tops of each boolit, with the towel allowing them to break loose from the block (while still warm). This kept the lube in the grooves really well. After running them through the Lee sizer(s) the lube was firmly pressed in place. Just how I found it to work. YMMV.

snaggdit

08-09-2009, 07:19 PM

Oh, I should say that many recommended using modified cases as cookie cutters (cut off the bases or drill out the primer pocket and install some kind of spring loaded punch). I tried it and it worked OK, but I found it to be a PITA. Way slower than my push them out warm procedure.

243winxb

08-09-2009, 07:26 PM

50/50 bees wax/alox melts at 130 degrees. It remains sticky. $1.90 ea. here>http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

Nate1778

08-09-2009, 07:33 PM

Just a quick result as I just punched out 200 perfectly lubed bullets. Oven heated bullets, pour in lube and let set. Now I am using a metal tray as opposed to the silicon ones demonstrated elsewhere. Once the lube solidifies, place in the freezer for a half an hour or so. The whole mix shrinks up and falls right out of the pan. Punch them out and each one of them (100%) was well packed and ready to roll. These .357 bullets measure out to be .359-.360 but they chamber in my GP100, so I have loaded about 2 dozen of them and will see how they do tomorrow.

armyrat1970

08-10-2009, 07:41 AM

Ahhh, but we do have crawfish! Big 6" puppies that I get from the area lakes when scuba diving. And since global warming we don't get blizzards anymore! When occasionally the schools close (only a couple days a year) I can still get around fine in my Jeep. I think many older folks retire south to avoid shoveling... Oh, and we don't get ice storms. It's either snow or rain. OK, I do miss a good jambalaya... Tried growing some okra again this year and failed again. Takes too long for soil temp to get up there then too short of a season. I do get my hot peppers to work by starting them in the greenhouse.

Those 6" puppies are only steamed or boiled and then dipped in butter I bet. Nothing like the smaller Pearl River ones boiled with crab-boil and the pot filled with onions, potatoes, smoke sauasge, corn on the cob and lemons. Outstanding with a cold brewski.
Lived in NewHampshire for a couple of years back in the 70's. Did a lot of skiing in the White Mountains. You wouldn't believe for a southern boy I would like the cold but actually really did. Had a skiing trip at Jay Peak in northern NewHampshire one weekend when we got 20 inches of fresh powder. Been at the top of some mountains before with the wind chill around -50. COOOOLD but I love that skiing.
Was stationed in Ft. Leonard Wood Missouri in the winter of 71 after returning from Nam. Had a burial detail during the middle of a snow storm for a buck sargent that was kia and all I had was my Summer Greens. Not one of my better details to say the least.
And speaking of bikinis in the south. Took my grandkids to a waterpark called Blue Bayou for a three day vacation this summer. Cajun Shooter you know where I'm talking about. When we went back to the motel at night it seemed the sorest part of my body was my neck. Bikinis everywhere and filled out nicely I might add. Of course some not so nicely.[smilie=l:
snaggdit. Thanks for that list. I know it took a lot of your time putting it together all in one place. A lot of good info. I have never pan lubed and just go with the Lee Liquid Alox. Squirt a little in the bottom of a plastic bowl and just roll the boolits around until they are fully coated. Stand them on a piece of wax paper for a day and let them dry. The Lee Alox always seems a little sticky though, even after drying. Have heard the lube can contaminate the powder. I believe it was Lloyd that posted something about wiping the lube from the base of the boolit before seating to stop contamination. Makes sense.

cajun shooter

08-10-2009, 08:06 AM

Armyrat1970, had a few neck twist there myself. Was at S&W in Springfield,Mass for one of my schools in 89 or 90. Left after the school to go to Chester, VT. where John Contro lived. John was the lead instructor. We were headed to those same mountains when hit with a blizzard in March. We were to go to Boston also to look around. Ended up staying in Chester for 3 days before we could leave. Played in the sneaux all day every day. John's wife said she had never seen grown men act like such little boys, only came in when she called us to eat. I don't use the mule snot but heard what I thought was a good idea. One poster said to take a pair of forceps and just dip the bullets. Advised that he had much better control than the shake method.

mroliver77

08-10-2009, 12:02 PM

One great thing about fwfl is the oils do not sweat out if you make it properly. I had a small chunk of it laying in a southern facing window sill for a couple of months. It gets very hot there. No bleading or melting of the felix lube. I have no need of any other.
Jay

Nate1778

08-10-2009, 01:10 PM

Well I just gone testing 24 of these cast bullets for the first time in my GP100 6" BBl. I am used to shooting Berry's 158 grain bullet out of .38 special cases. I am happy to say they all went boom and not ka-boom and all seamed to group pretty good, or as good as I can get it. My question at this point is the later bullet shot at 6'oclock POA pretty reliably. These cast 125 grains shot at 3'oclock POA reliably. I am using red dot with the 158 grain and HP38 with the cast. Can there be that big of difference in POA between the two? There was no leading that I could tell but I have not put a light down the barrel. I did notice a considerable amount of smoke from the loads, unfortunately my indoor range puts their filter behind the shooter so it all comes back to the face. Is this lube, powder, or lead, or a little of all? Thus far I am very happy with the results and the cost savings should pay off in the end and its a cool hobby...............

armyrat1970

08-11-2009, 06:34 AM