H & R 586 Strength?

[Newtire]

Just wondering if anyone has any idea about the relative strength of the H & R solid frame revolvers like the model (s) 504 or 586. It seems like a pretty beefy chunk of steel but realize that alone can be deceptive as a guide for strength. What I am trying to get at is how does it compare to a Ruger or a Smith?

[Harry O]

It doesn't compare with a Colt or a S&W. I own or have owned all of them at one time or another.

The .32 H&R Magnum was designed around the H&R guns. The factory decided to limit the pressure to the low 20,000psi range (I don't have any books here, but I seem to remember it was in the 21,000-23,000psi range) instead of the mid-30,000psi range that many Colts and S&W's are designed for. I would assume that they would have run tests before making that decision.

There are many guns for the .32 H&R Magnum that have different pressure levels. I place ALL the H&R's at the factory load pressure as maximum. Same for a J-frame S&W I have. A Ruger Single-Six, SP-101, and K-frame S&W can go higher. The large frame Ruger can go still higher (probably up to the limit of the brass).

I loaded and shot an H&R in .32 S&W Long for many years. The loads were hot-rodded. I don't know the pressure, but it was probably pretty close to (but under) the .32 Magnum. I never had a problem with it.

[9.3X62AL]

S&W K-frame and Ruger SSM are the limits of my experience in 32 H&R Magnum. I suspect that both of these have a pretty substantial reserve of strength that I don't tap into with the RCBS 98 SWC or Lyman #313631 at 1250-1300 FPS. Most of my shooting involves velocities of 900-1100 FPS with this caliber, which is a substantial boost from standard 32 S&W Long power--shooting flatter and hitting harder at longer ranges than its ancestor. The 32 S&W Long is no slouch on small game either--the RCBS 98 or Hornady 90 SWC's at 800 FPS do a fine job on jackrabbits, and take cottontails without shredding the hasenpfeffer.

Even at extended velocities, the 32 Magnum is at its best with critters at or under the size of coyotes, and the larger species should be pretty close up and taken with heavier boolits. Now that I'm getting some accuracy out of the 115-120 grainers, coyotes are a bit less "iffy" than before. No real world shots with that mixture yet, though--just jackrabbits so far, and they keel right over.

[Harry O]

I managed to find some more information about pushing the pressure up on the .32 H&R Magnum.

Back in 1985, Skeeter Skelton published a load that he used in his Ruger Single Six. He retracted it a few months later. Seems that Federal asked for some of his handloads and tested them at 38,820psi. He said that he would continue using it in his gun, but could not recommend it for anyone else. Federal also tested some other handloads he had. The 38,820psi load gave 1,502fps with an 85gr bullet. A 30,940psi load gave 1,263fps with a 100gr cast bullet. A 21,500psi factory load gave 1,038fps with a 95gr lead bullet. Accuracy was good with all of them.

About 10 years later, Ed Harris did some tests with an Oehler pressure testing system. He said that the pressure limit was established at 20,000psi for the H&R handguns (I have also heard that and 21,000 and 22,000psi). However, he tested a number of loads in a Ruger SP101 and a Ruger Single Six that went up to 37,846psi which gave 1,180fps with a 100gr bullet (this seems awfully low velocity and is not in line with the other info he gives -- could be a mistake in printing). He also tried loads at 32,851psi, and 27,882psi.

Harris' conclusion was that you could go up to 30,000psi with any of the Rugers without any problems at all. When pushing 40,000psi, there was sometimes sticky extraction. He polished the chambers of the SP101 and that cured its problem. No one (including him) knows what that will do long term, of course. He did not mention the large-frame Ruger 32-20/32 Magnum revolver. I believe that that one is only limited by the strength of the brass (even higher pressure).

I personally put the J-frame S&W strength at the same limit as the H&R -- 20,000psi. I used a heavier load in it (about 30,000psi -- an estimate since I do not have any pressure testing equipment) and found that I could not open the cylinder afterward. A gunsmith got it back into working order. I tried the same loads in a K-frame S&W and had absolutely NO problems of any kind. I don't think I would go any higher in it though.

This may not be what you are looking for, but it seems that no one has advocated going higher than factory pressure with any of the original H&R handguns.

[Bodydoc447]

Harry,

Can you point to the articles you mentioned. While I have no intention of pushing the envelope with my single six, I would like to have the data. A PM would be fine if you'd rather.

Thanks,
Doc

[Harry O]

PM on the way.

[MT Gianni]

Skeeter's load may have been with the bisley model blackhawk. Same frame as the 44 and 45 in 32 H&R. Rumors were you could really push things fast. gianni.

[Newtire]

Thanks you guys for all the great info. That's enough to answer my question. I might run into one of those stornger revolvers one of these days & pick it up but until then, will go on the low end. I notice all the loads are shorter OAL than what I am using so oughta be extra safe. Mine are right at 1.370" out to the end of the cylinder almost. So far, haven't had any of them bind up on me but have been using a tight taper crimp and there really isn't that much recoil with the 98 gr. RCBS. I have shot the 118 gr. 311316 HP in it but believe the bullet is too small for the cylinder. It lets you know you are shooting something more than just a pop.

[Harry O]

Skeeter's load may have been with the bisley model blackhawk. Same frame as the 44 and 45 in 32 H&R. Rumors were you could really push things fast. gianni.

Nope. The gun was a Ruger Single Six. It said that in the article and showed a picture of it. If I am going by memory, I say "from memory". Otherwise, it is from a copy of the article -- as this one was.

[Harry O]

For those who PM'ed me, the copies went out today. No charge. Use the info wisely.

[Bodydoc447]

Appreciate the information and the articles.

Much obliged,

Doc