4895 pull down contaminated

[emptyhead]

Hey guys I have a question reguarding a 8 pound container that I got from jeff about 2-3 years ago. When I was throwing charges on my chargemaster I noticed that there was some different powder mixed in with it. It looks to be wc820. Out of a 46 grain charge it looks to be about a 1/2 grain or less mixed in. Is it fertilizer or should i be just burn through it. Charges are about 2 grain below max. Have any of you had this problem.

[Jumptrap]

Hey guys I have a question reguarding a 8 pound container that I got from jeff about 2-3 years ago. When I was throwing charges on my chargemaster I noticed that there was some different powder mixed in with it. It looks to be wc820. Out of a 46 grain charge it looks to be about a 1/2 grain or less mixed in. Is it fertilizer or should i be just burn through it. Charges are about 2 grain below max. Have any of you had this problem.

Hehe....yeah, you need to send that fertilizer to me.....I've got a bunch of stunted cartridges that can use a good dose of that stuff:).

Hell no, don't throw it away. Seems as if you have already discovered what loading modifications you need to use it........continue on your merry way.

[Junior1942]

One of my jugs was exactly like yours. It loads and shoots just fine.

[JCherry]

I had some of the same. No problems either.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[emptyhead]

Thanks guys I thought that I was going to have to trash it

[redneckdan]

I would just be sure to mix the power very well and don't try to hot rod it.

[hamour]

I have several jugs of the 4895 from Jeff and find that 4064 data is closer to what this powder does for me than 4895. It is great powder.

I have not seen what you describe though, it looks like regular IMR type powder.

[StarMetal]

I have several jugs of the 4895 from Jeff and find that 4064 data is closer to what this powder does for me than 4895. It is great powder.

I have not seen what you describe though, it looks like regular IMR type powder.

I find that hard to believe. I'm not calling you a lair, but 4064 is quite a bunch of powders slower. 4320 is even inbetween 4895 and 4064. I've worked a lot with all the 4895's, that is H4895, IMR 4895, Surplus 4895, and Accurate 2495. Those powders are all so close, the further away one being H4895. I've also had a lengthy discussion with the Hodgdon powder tech about all those. I'd be careful if I were you, I'd never use 4064 data to load any 4895 powder.

Joe

[USSR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamour View Post
I have several jugs of the 4895 from Jeff and find that 4064 data is closer to what this powder does for me than 4895. It is great powder.

I have not seen what you describe though, it looks like regular IMR type powder.


I find that hard to believe. I'm not calling you a lair, but 4064 is quite a bunch of powders slower. 4320 is even inbetween 4895 and 4064. I've worked a lot with all the 4895's, that is H4895, IMR 4895, Surplus 4895, and Accurate 2495. Those powders are all so close, the further away one being H4895. I've also had a lengthy discussion with the Hodgdon powder tech about all those. I'd be careful if I were you, I'd never use 4064 data to load any 4895 powder.

Joe

Surplus IMR4895 can vary greatly in burn rate. That's why LC M72 Match ammo used varying amounts of it over the years while generating the same velocity. Personally, I've got 3 different lots: one fast, one medium, and one slower burn rate.

Don

[hamour]

I find that hard to believe. I'm not calling you a lair, but 4064 is quite a bunch of powders slower. 4320 is even inbetween 4895 and 4064. I've worked a lot with all the 4895's, that is H4895, IMR 4895, Surplus 4895, and Accurate 2495. Those powders are all so close, the further away one being H4895. I've also had a lengthy discussion with the Hodgdon powder tech about all those. I'd be careful if I were you, I'd never use 4064 data to load any 4895 powder.

Joe

here is a link to a burn rate chart, one of many found by googling "Powder burn rate chart"

http://www.reloadammo.com/burnrate.htm

IMR -4895 and IMR-4064 are very close in burn rate. 150gr bullet @ 49grs IMR-4895 is classic M1 Garand load. 168gr bullet @ 47grs IMR-4064 is classic M1 Garand load.

IMR-4320 is slowest powder even the longrange target boys recomend for Garand loads and you can bend an op rod if you aint carefull.

A slow lot of 4895 can burn as slow as on spec 4064. A fast lot of 4064 can burn as fast as on spec 4895. They are very close in burn rate.
I talked with Jeff when I got the powder and he told me this powder burned closer to 4064. So I worked the loads using my chronograph and he was correct.

Did I mention 4895 and 4064 are close in burn rate? That when you compare lots of mil surplus that they vary in burn rates. That we learned in the 60's to buy mil surplus in large lots and work loads for that lot due to variations in burn rates? That 4895 and 4064 are close to each others burn rates?

4895 and 4064 are classic M1 Garand powders, the burn rates are close.

[Patrick L]

Starmetal, I'm not calling you a liar, but I think you're mistaken. I always thought 4320 was slower than both 4895 and 4064, and the latter two were very close.

[Hip's Ax]

I have several jugs of the 4895 from Jeff and find that 4064 data is closer to what this powder does for me than 4895. It is great powder.

I have not seen what you describe though, it looks like regular IMR type powder.


I would depend on when you bought your "4895" from Jeff. If it was quite a while ago and was sold as "pulldown" then that indeed should be 4895. If you bought it within the last, oh I guess two years or less, and was sold as "new" powder it is not 4895 but Russian powder. If the Russian is what you bought two things:

1. Use 4064 data

2. Count yourself as lucky because this is alledged to be awesome shooting match powder.

On the advise of a good friend and very reliable source of information on shooting I bought 4 jugs of the Russian. I've yet to use any as I'm using up some older 4895 and 4064 I already had but looking forward to excellent results once I do get to it.

[hamour]

I would depend on when you bought your "4895" from Jeff. If it was quite a while ago and was sold as "pulldown" then that indeed should be 4895. If you bought it within the last, oh I guess two years or less, and was sold as "new" powder it is not 4895 but Russian powder. If the Russian is what you bought two things:

1. Use 4064 data

2. Count yourself as lucky because this is alledged to be awesome shooting match powder.

On the advise of a good friend and very reliable source of information on shooting I bought 4 jugs of the Russian. I've yet to use any as I'm using up some older 4895 and 4064 I already had but looking forward to excellent results once I do get to it.

I got some of the last Russian powder from Jeff and the 4064 data is working out very reliably. Both in 150gr and 165gr loads. Got 4 jugs and have 3 left.

I just picked up the RG-4895 from Wideners but have not worked loads with it. Have a .375 H&H coming out of mothballs and we will see how both powders do with it.

[DanOH]

I had some surplus IMR4895 years ago that also had some ball powder mixed in.
Apparently(per Jeff Bartlett), this had been pulled down from linked m2 ball ammo that had a tracer round every fifth round. I bought this from TALON but then let it sit on a shelf a few years before noticing.
I used it to make match ammo for my M1 but got pressure signs with normal loads (46.0 grns
w/168 smk). Backed down to 44.0 grns and shot ok but not great (no more flat primers).
Ran across Larry Medlers website where he has an article on sifting various powders with
industrial grade sieves.
http://home.comcast.net/~jesse99/sieving.html
It just so happens that Larry shoots on the same range I practice 600 yd service rifle.
He was gracious enough to let me borrow his set up and in short order I had sifted
the whole 8 lbs can.
It turned out that all the ball powder sifted out of that 8 pounder would fit in an 8 oz styrofoam coffee cup so the every fifth round thing that I had warned about wasn't quite accurate.
After sifting I used this powder for my AR15. Excellent results!
Those loads helped me make Master class xtc.

[Clark]

I got jugs of surplus IMR4895 from Hi-Tech and it was a while before I figured out that, in Quickload, entering H322 predicted the pressure and velocity much better than entering IMR4895.

[Ricochet]

I recall seeing "new" surplus 4895 sold on some of the usual sites several years back that was advertised as burning more like 4064. I'm pretty sure Wideners said that about theirs. At any rate 4895 and 4064 aren't too far apart and change positions between different loads in the manuals as to which is "faster" or "slower."

All of my WC860 pulldown, which came from Hi-Tech about 10 years ago, has a small amount of some extruded powder in it. I got no reply from Dan when I inquired about it. It's apparently well and evenly distributed, and the stuff works fine. I don't worry about it. Whoever pulled down the ammo must not have been too careful about cleaning out the residue from what he'd pulled down in the previous batch.

[Larry Gibson]

Ricochet is correct. I have a quanity of 4895 I purchased from Widner's in '05. The burning rate is very close to 4064. It is a fine powder and I'm using it so don't even ask:-)

Larry Gibson

[USSR]

Larry,

I also bought some of the 4895 powder from Widener's in 2005. While it is great powder, there is something peculiar about it. The cannisters are labeled as surplus IMR4895 powder, but this powder is not an IMR powder; the kernels are the wrong color! IMR powders are black, and this powder is green like Hodgdon powder. Would love to know the story behind it.

Don

[StarMetal]

Larry,

I also bought some of the 4895 powder from Widener's in 2005. While it is great powder, there is something peculiar about it. The cannisters are labeled as surplus IMR4895 powder, but this powder is not an IMR powder; the kernels are the wrong color! IMR powders are black, and this powder is green like Hodgdon powder. Would love to know the story behind it.

Don

I bought some from Wideners about that time and my looked just IMR...the dark grey graphite color.

Joe

[405]

Me too. I also got some from Jeff about 2-3 years ago. Likely the same stuff. Not a pull down "4895" but a surplus bulk. Jeff said it was closer to 4064... kind of a slow variety of 4895. I haven't noticed any other obvious types of powder mixed in with it. It is definitely not IMR. The stuff I have is a little coarser. It also has a more shiny silvery appearance. It shoots very well and as Jeff stated is a little slower than regular 4895. The loads I've tested thru the chronograph confirm that... showing traits similar to 4064. If yours has the relatively small amounts, 1% or less of unknown powder, I wouldn't worry about it. Start at the usually reduced staring loads and work up.

[StarMetal]

I'll tell you all something interesting about 4895. At the time I had the Wideners surplus I had in addition to it some canister IMR 4895, Accurate 2495 (which is their 4895) and some Hodgdon 4895. I was loading for my 32 Special Winchester. I use a Belding & Mull powder measure. Well all four of them threw my charge without hardly any adjustment change, the charges even weighed pretty close to one another. The big surprise came in shooting all of them with the same bullet. They were within 7-9 fps velocity difference from one another. I was shocked they were that close. I certainly don't thing my surplus 4895 was as slow as 4064. Talked to Hodgdon about that and they said that theirs is really the different one because they don't use a graphite coating as a deterrent. They claim to use it only for better metering and not cause static.

Joe

[USSR]

I also got some from Jeff about 2-3 years ago. Likely the same stuff. Not a pull down "4895" but a surplus bulk. Jeff said it was closer to 4064... kind of a slow variety of 4895. I haven't noticed any other obvious types of powder mixed in with it. It is definitely not IMR. The stuff I have is a little coarser. It also has a more shiny silvery appearance.

A couple years ago, Jeff was selling a powder he simply called "4895", not "IMR4895". It was a Russian powder with nearly the same burn rate as IMR4895, and by all reports, a very good powder. The stuff I bought from Widener's was labeled "Surplus IMR4895". But as I said before, it looks like Hodgdon powder.

Don

[Ricochet]

Talked to Hodgdon about that and they said that theirs is really the different one because they don't use a graphite coating as a deterrent. They claim to use it only for better metering and not cause static.
Those are the reasons graphite's used on any powder. It's not a deterrent. The deterrent coating on all the standard IMR powders is dinitrotoluene.