9mm 124 grain truncated cone

[parrott1969]

Does anyone have an OAL for this load? I just fired two rounds with 4 grains of unique and an OAL of 1.090. It cycled well with little recoil and no signs of pressure problems but it bothers me that I cannot find any published data for a truncated cone. Any ideas?:veryconfu:veryconfu

[fastgun]

4 grains of unique is a light load. If the load shoots well and functions good that is what is important. Published data is not always what will work best.

[Ekalb2000]

I have a hundred or so of them loaded up with unique. But for the life of me I cant remember what charge it was. When I get home I will look for ya.
I remember my w231 load though as I really like it. Its 3.5gr.
Oh, The OAL on both is 1.135
And that is with the lee 124 mold

[parrott1969]

Fast gun, I just noticed a lot of carbon on the side of the brass. If my memory is correct, isn't that a sign that the brass did not expand enough to seal the chamber? This is my first time going " off the books " with a load. I really like my P95 and would hate for it to kaboooooom. I was real nervous starting with 4 grains and I had the OAL down to 1.090, that is what it takes to cover the lube groove. Damn scarry pulling the trigger.

[GabbyM]

Hornady makes a fmj 124 grain tcfp. Best metal jacket bullet you can use imo.
Their book list an OL of 1.040". I've always used 1.100” in my S&W's which puts them against the rifling. but you may find chambers or magazines to short for that O.L.

You didn't say what bullet you have. In general you can find you ideal O.L. By loading dummy rounds out until the bullet touches the rifling then back off (seat deeper) .030” for a little tolerance. Then see if that length will feed in your magazine. But then I earlier stated I load mine against the rifling.

Lyman list an O.L. For its #356402 at 1.110”. as it's a long pointy thing.

If you're just barely covering the lube grove and they chamber and feed you're probably where you want to be. I'd bump that powder up to 4 ½ grains and look to get 4.7 in it. Or shoot it over a crony to 1100 fps. From a 4” barrel. I load mine to 1180 fps on a hot day. With Unique or power pistol. Always loose the brass before I wear it out anyway. I download my 44 mag but run my 9's flat out. Can't justify that it's just the way I do it.

[bruce drake]

same mold and I use 4.2gr of Red Dot. nice load in my Taurus PT99.

[parrott1969]

sorry about that the mold it is a saeco #377 tcfp. Gabby can you explain to me how you are touching the rifling at an OL of 1.110? All of my load data shows a max OAL of 1.169. I am not questioning your data it is just every time I think I have this reloading and casting stuff figured out someone or something throws me a curve ball and I end up feeling as lost as when I cast my first boolit! I THINKS ME'S NEEDS MORE SCHOOL'N

[gefiltephish]

I cast 120-124gr TC's (single groove) from a Lee mold. OAL 1.060, 4.6gr WSF. Shoots well in my XD9 Tac. Sized to .356, but if I could get them to drop larger I'd size to .357 as my barrel slugs .3555 and I get some leading.

[parrott1969]

I cast 120-124gr TC's (single groove) from a Lee mold. OAL 1.060, 4.6gr WSF. Shoots well in my XD9 Tac. Sized to .356, but if I could get them to drop larger I'd size to .357 as my barrel slugs .3555 and I get some leading.
Is this a minimum OAl? Have you ever tried Unique?:confused:

[Houndog]

I cast 120-124gr TC's (single groove) from a Lee mold. OAL 1.060, 4.6gr WSF. Shoots well in my XD9 Tac. Sized to .356, but if I could get them to drop larger I'd size to .357 as my barrel slugs .3555 and I get some leading.

I use almost the same load except I use 4.7 WSF and like it a bunch. As far as Unique goes, I like 5.0 grains under this boolet, and in one old Polish Radom, I use 6.0 grains! I'm still shooting the old dirty stuff, and an old Lyman cast boolet manual listed a max load of 6.0 Unique. It's HOT, but works fine.

[parrott1969]

houndog, thanks for the input. Do they show the OAL? I have to an OAL of 1.090 just to cover the lube groove. I know how sensitive the 9mm is to OAL and just a tad too short can cause huge pressure spikes. I just figured out I need to buy a lyman cast boolit manual. I have been going off my lyman 49th edition and lee modern reloading manual. DAAAAAH!Stupid is as stupid does!

[gefiltephish]

Is this a minimum OAl? Have you ever tried Unique?:confused:

1.100 on this bullet puts the shell mouth right on the top edge of the lube groove. At first I hadn't realized this which wasn't very observant of me. 1.060 puts the shell mouth about .020 below the start of bullet taper. This OAL actually seats the base of the bullet about .020+/- deeper than an FMJ. I worked up my WSF load based on this.

I have used Unique at 1.100. 4.8 worked well. I haven't tried it at 1.060, as I only have 1lb of Unique and 4lbs of WSF.

I wouldn't classify my WSF load as cream puff, but it is pretty easy on the hands and seems to be accurate enough for my use from 7 - 25 yards.

[parrott1969]

Gefiltephish thanks for the info. Now it all makes sense (sorta of) boolit seats deeper, powder reduced but pressure curve is about the same. Got it.

[kamikaze1a]

parrot, one of the signs that the shell is not sealing to the chamber is a lot of smoking of the shell casings. A firmer crimp should bring up pressure...and the higher pressure should cause the shell to expand more...

[GabbyM]

sorry about that the mold it is a saeco #377 tcfp. Gabby can you explain to me how you are touching the rifling at an OL of 1.110? All of my load data shows a max OAL of 1.169. I am not questioning your data it is just every time I think I have this reloading and casting stuff figured out someone or something throws me a curve ball and I end up feeling as lost as when I cast my first boolit! I THINKS ME'S NEEDS MORE SCHOOL'N

Sorry about another one of my confusing post. At least you didn't think I was calling you names.
I was referring to the Hornady fmj-fp at 1.100” I think I load the Saeco shorter and then I've a H&G #309 that loads different. 1.100” is about as long as my S&W 59 mags will handle.

Since the 9mm is such a sensitive round to O.L. I spend more time working up loads than with other cartridges. We still don't know what bullet the OP has. When you go from a 1.040” as listed in the data to a 1.100” it makes a huge difference in a 9mm as to pressure. Also works the other way around so I'
d not be so bold as to list my loads. The 9x19mm is one of those cartridges where you can't interpolate load data from one bullet style to the next just because they may be the same weight. They are just to touchy. I'm pretty sure the 1.100” won't chamber all the way with the Saeco #377 but not sure of my memory and can't find my load data. But lets say I had a load at max pressure with the Hornady jacketed bullet that fit then loaded that same powder charge under the Saeco which jammed in the chamber with slide dropping force. It's quite possible to get over pressure. Probably not dramatic but loose primer pockets after are certainly in the realm of possibilities. To make things more complicated Hornady has a new design 124gr tcfp encapsulated that ,from the photos, looks to have a differrent nose with smaller meplat. Which may have a deeper seat in the case than the old bullet negating the data. I don't know but for sure wouldn't trust it.

Back when I was a silly wild kid I'd get batches of mixed head stamp 9mm and load them up all the same with either 8gr or 7.7 grains of Blue Dot over a 124 gr bullet. When some of the case heads would flatten out I'd think it was soft brass on that brand. Never dawned on me that those cases were off less powder capacity or some other variable. After a few reloads some of those cases would drop the primer out in the magazine as they worked their turn up the mag under recoil. Now days I separate my brass by head stamp. IMHO you can't get sloppy with a 9mm load. I've tried it and it didn't work out to well.

I've three books here I”m looking at and they all list 5 grains of Unique as max charge with a 120 to 124 grain bullet at around 1190 fps. Then someones wrote Spear list 6 grains for their bullet. I'd seriously consider this data not interchangeable. The OP's 4 grain start load was a good one. IMO. As long as you aren't getting stove pipe jams and such in a 9mm you aren't to far under loaded. Most people look for an accuracy load between enough to function and max pressure.

[scrapcan]

I shoot the saeco 377 in both 9mm and 38 special. I use 5.0gr unique (also the old tried bullseye charge for plinker loads) as then I don't have to change the powder measure setting just swap it to the other 550b toolhead.

I used the same method to seat the 9mm as mentioned above by setting to lightly engrave.

One thing you need to watch if you crimp is case length. If you use range pickup make sure you run it through a trimmer or you will get strange results due to the variation in crimp from different case length.

On the speer manual load. Depending on the version of the manual you are looking at it you might see some hot loads. Speer #8 and #9 come to mind.

Be careful and attentive when loading the 9mm and don't push the upper end immediately. Pressures raise fast in this cartridge and a split barrel is no fun, been there with a 9mm and the lyman 147 gn bb.

[fredj338]

I use the Saeco 122grLTC @ 1.055". Much longer & the shoulder starts hitting rifling in some of my pistols. With 5gr of Unique you run right @ 1200fps (G17).

[StarMetal]

Sorry about another one of my confusing post. At least you didn't think I was calling you names.
I was referring to the Hornady fmj-fp at 1.100” I think I load the Saeco shorter and then I've a H&G #309 that loads different. 1.100” is about as long as my S&W 59 mags will handle.

Since the 9mm is such a sensitive round to O.L. I spend more time working up loads than with other cartridges. We still don't know what bullet the OP has. When you go from a 1.040” as listed in the data to a 1.100” it makes a huge difference in a 9mm as to pressure. Also works the other way around so I'
d not be so bold as to list my loads. The 9x19mm is one of those cartridges where you can't interpolate load data from one bullet style to the next just because they may be the same weight. They are just to touchy. I'm pretty sure the 1.100” won't chamber all the way with the Saeco #377 but not sure of my memory and can't find my load data. But lets say I had a load at max pressure with the Hornady jacketed bullet that fit then loaded that same powder charge under the Saeco which jammed in the chamber with slide dropping force. It's quite possible to get over pressure. Probably not dramatic but loose primer pockets after are certainly in the realm of possibilities. To make things more complicated Hornady has a new design 124gr tcfp encapsulated that ,from the photos, looks to have a differrent nose with smaller meplat. Which may have a deeper seat in the case than the old bullet negating the data. I don't know but for sure wouldn't trust it.

Back when I was a silly wild kid I'd get batches of mixed head stamp 9mm and load them up all the same with either 8gr or 7.7 grains of Blue Dot over a 124 gr bullet. When some of the case heads would flatten out I'd think it was soft brass on that brand. Never dawned on me that those cases were off less powder capacity or some other variable. After a few reloads some of those cases would drop the primer out in the magazine as they worked their turn up the mag under recoil. Now days I separate my brass by head stamp. IMHO you can't get sloppy with a 9mm load. I've tried it and it didn't work out to well.

I've three books here I”m looking at and they all list 5 grains of Unique as max charge with a 120 to 124 grain bullet at around 1190 fps. Then someones wrote Spear list 6 grains for their bullet. I'd seriously consider this data not interchangeable. The OP's 4 grain start load was a good one. IMO. As long as you aren't getting stove pipe jams and such in a 9mm you aren't to far under loaded. Most people look for an accuracy load between enough to function and max pressure.

Me thinks you still don't know what you are doing. That 8 gr load of Blue Dot that you loaded as kid (explain kid too..what 10, 11, 12 years old, or did you mean young man?) borders on a 38 Super load. The 9mm isn't any fussier then any other small capacity pistol cartridge such as 25 acp, 32 acp, 380, etc.. Even add some rifle cartridges like the 22 Hornet. Anyone with experience, and workable brain, can interpolate loads ....the one thing you must have left out is to interpolate both the powder type, charge, weight of the bullet, and bearing length.

Not getting on you just pointing out some errors and the 9mm really really isn't that fussy or hard to load.

By the way I' done a test of seating a bullet deeper and deeper and deeper....and yes it does raise pressure, but most often not as much as your 8 grains of Blue Dot load.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Does anyone have an OAL for this load? I just fired two rounds with 4 grains of unique and an OAL of 1.090. It cycled well with little recoil and no signs of pressure problems but it bothers me that I cannot find any published data for a truncated cone. Any ideas?:veryconfu:veryconfu

There is no standard AOL, especially when you don't specifically identify the actual bullet used. There are numerous TC 9mm bullets of various designs and the AOLs will vary with each one of them. The AOL for the 9mm cartridge, as in your semi auto handgun, is governed by 3 things.

1. The length of the magazine. The cartridge must be od such length that it fits readily into the magazine without binding when feeding.

2. The lube grooves should be covered by the case. This is to prevent lube from getting on other cartridges, To prevent the accumulation of dirt and debri in the exposed lube, the rim of a feeding cartridge from hanging up in the lube groove of the cartridge it is riding on and so the case mouth has solid bullet under it to prevent headspace problems.

3. The throat. If the AOL is too long the bullet will engrave on the rifling and may cause chambering problems such as the slide not fully closing.

The easiest way to adjust the AOL for your handgun is to remove the barrel and use it as a "cartridge gauge". Load your cartridges so the lop lube groove is covered and the loaded rounds will fit into the magazine. Then simply insert one into the chamber of the bareel. If the bottom of the cartridge is flush with the hood of the barrel or is slightly below the back edge of the barrel hood then the AOL is correct. If the bottom of the cartridge sicks out from the back edge of the barrel hood then seat the bullets deeper into the cartridge until the base of the cartridge is flush with or below the back edge fo the Barrel hood. Doing that you will have the correct AOL for the bullet you are using in your handgun.

The correct AOL should be determined before working up loads. If it does not then the pressure will change if the AOL is changed. This can cause an accuracy and pressure difference and give results different from the load you worked up to.

Larry Gibson

[GabbyM]

Me thinks you still don't know what you are doing. That 8 gr load of Blue Dot that you loaded as kid (explain kid too..what 10, 11, 12 years old, or did you mean young man?) borders on a 38 Super load. The 9mm isn't any fussier then any other small capacity pistol cartridge such as 25 acp, 32 acp, 380, etc.. Even add some rifle cartridges like the 22 Hornet. Anyone with experience, and workable brain, can interpolate loads ....the one thing you must have left out is to interpolate both the powder type, charge, weight of the bullet, and bearing length.

Not getting on you just pointing out some errors and the 9mm really really isn't that fussy or hard to load.

By the way I' done a test of seating a bullet deeper and deeper and deeper....and yes it does raise pressure, but most often not as much as your 8 grains of Blue Dot load.

Joe

8 grains of Blue Dot under a 124 grain Speer was a published load back in the seventies. Hornady 3rd edition list 7.7 max under the 124gr tcfp for 1150 fps from a 4” barrel S&W 39. (which is what I shot at the tiime) That's loaded at 1.040” O.L. Run that OL out to 1.100” and it will take 8 grains to make just under 1200 fps. with the Hornady 124-fmj-fp. Old Air Force bullet style. Most sunny days. Cast bullets theoretically have less pressure but it's hard for me to see on a crony or visual signs. I'm sure it's their but the bullet is not exactly the same and I don't have pressure equipment. So to me it's just another variable.

Did I make it clear the way to set O.L. Is to take your barrel out of your pistol then drop in dummy rounds until you find the max O.L. Then shorten it for some battle tolerance or seat it up against the rifling.? Read that in a book years ago. Actually I think you'll find it in about all loading books that deal with the subject. They'll also state to start with a reduced load then work up. Never have I read in any book to stop at a point recommended on a Internet forum. Or for that matter start at any point recommended on the Internet.

The Blue Dot is a compressed load which may makes it more capacity sensitive. I don't know. And I don't care. It's just another variable.

I switched to AA#5 ten years ago with great results. Now for some reason I can only assume is self induced torture I've gone and bought Power Pistol. Guess it was some urge to go with the latest and greatest powder.
I've shot Unique at 4.8 grains but can't remember the results. I use Unique in my 44 mag. If I wanted to make my life more simple I could use one powder for the three pistol rounds I use. But Nooo.

[StarMetal]

8 grains of Blue Dot under a 124 grain Speer was a published load back in the seventies. Hornady 3rd edition list 7.7 max under the 124gr tcfp for 1150 fps from a 4” barrel S&W 39. (which is what I shot at the tiime) That's loaded at 1.040” O.L. Run that OL out to 1.100” and it will take 8 grains to make just under 1200 fps. with the Hornady 124-fmj-fp. Old Air Force bullet style. Most sunny days. Cast bullets theoretically have less pressure but it's hard for me to see on a crony or visual signs. I'm sure it's their but the bullet is not exactly the same and I don't have pressure equipment. So to me it's just another variable.

Did I make it clear the way to set O.L. Is to take your barrel out of your pistol then drop in dummy rounds until you find the max O.L. Then shorten it for some battle tolerance or seat it up against the rifling.? Read that in a book years ago. Actually I think you'll find it in about all loading books that deal with the subject. They'll also state to start with a reduced load then work up. Never have I read in any book to stop at a point recommended on a Internet forum. Or for that matter start at any point recommended on the Internet.

The Blue Dot is a compressed load which may makes it more capacity sensitive. I don't know. And I don't care. It's just another variable.

I switched to AA#5 ten years ago with great results. Now for some reason I can only assume is self induced torture I've gone and bought Power Pistol. Guess it was some urge to go with the latest and greatest powder.
I've shot Unique at 4.8 grains but can't remember the results. I use Unique in my 44 mag. If I wanted to make my life more simple I could use one powder for the three pistol rounds I use. But Nooo.

My regular target/plinking load for my Browning Hi Power and 1911 is 4.5 grains of Unique with the RCBS TC 124 grain bullet. I don't care for Blue Dot too much. I like WW231 and Hodgdon's Universal also.

Joe

[runfiverun]

or not lube the top groove.
if you are using the alox i wouldn't sweat the lube groove being exposed if using regular lube just don't put it in that groove.
i seat my 9's as far out as i can get them and not have any feeding issues.
use the same brand and length of brass in the 9 when working things up it will save some headaches like head space or mashing the base of the boolit.