Model 95 Winchester

[muleequestrian]

I have a new made model 95 Winchester saddle ring carbine. It was made in 2006, and is chambered in .30-06. I don't like the ladder style sights but I was told the two little screws on the rear of the reciever are drilled and tapped for a sight. Which sight would best fit this gun ? I use this rifle for deer hunting in heavy brush in Maine, but we also have large open areas in the blueberry barrens near my home.

[Buckshot]

............If they're on the left side of the action I'd bet they're for a Lyman reciever sight.

...........Buckshot

[muskeg13]

If you are interested in something historicaly accurate for the M1895, you should consider either the Lyman Model 21 or 38 receiver sight. These were standard factory options in the old days. While Lyman no longer makes them, Providence Tool Company makes a Model 21, and Buffalo Arms Co. used to carry a Model 38 reproduction. The difference in the two models is that the Model 38 has an adjustable windage knob, while on the Model 21 windage is adjustable via a set screw.

http://www.peabodyrifles.com/peabody_21_sight_spec_sheet.doc
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,395.html

I have an original Lyman M38 on my M1895 30-06 carbine, and a reproduction M38 on my new .405. When I switched rear sights on my .405, to a receiver sight, I cut the group size in half.

[Don McDowell]

The Williams FP71 sight will fit into those factory holes.
The repro's of the climbinLyman are alright, but you'll have to drill and tap one hole in the reciever.
If I had it to do over again I would of had one of the Williams installed on my 405.

[Jumptrap]

I have a couple 95's....both reproductions, like yours. One is marked Browning and in 30-06 and the other was marked Winchester and in 30-06, which I had it rebarreled to 35 Whelen. Both guns are Miroku made, as I assume yours is. I maintain that these are the finest 95's ever made....materials and tolerances were never this good in the originals......same goes for all the Miroku reproductions. I do confess...they don't have that vintage aura like the old ones do.

As for the sights, I have Lyman 66 sights on both my rifles and they work perfectly. I wanted a climbin' Lyman until I finally got one. I don't care for them....they are ungainly and the sight itself can get tangled in vines or brush and the elevation inadvertently raised/lowered. The lockdown lever can only do so much, as it is a friction device.

The climbin Lyman 21 and 38's were originally a cheap stamped sheet metal sight and had demand held out for them....they would have continued to make them. But, the 66's and it's variants proved to be a more compact and durable design. Yes.....I know that many people opined for the 21 and 38 until somebody reproduced them....but the ransoms they demand are ridiculous. One of those repro sights was/is made in the Ukraine. I would bet that Ivan Ivanovich makes them from recycled Scud missile wings and might get $3 each for them. Some how, the value skyrockets after it crosses the ocean.

[BarryinIN]

The climbin Lyman 21 and 38's were originally a cheap stamped sheet metal sight and had demand held out for them....they would have continued to make them. But, the 66's and it's variants proved to be a more compact and durable design. Yes.....I know that many people opined for the 21 and 38 until somebody reproduced them....but the ransoms they demand are ridiculous. One of those repro sights was/is made in the Ukraine. I would bet that Ivan Ivanovich makes them from recycled Scud missile wings and might get $3 each for them. Some how, the value skyrockets after it crosses the ocean.

Exactly.
I have an original 95 SRC in .30 Army and would like a real or repro 21/38just because that sight and 95s go together. But while I am willing to pay for quality, I look at them and don't see how they require more than $10 to make. Even with markup and assorted marketing costs, I don't see them retailing for more than $20-25.
Then again, they have to recoup setup costs and the market has to be tiny.
Then again (again), if they are made in the Ulkraine or somewhere, a bushel of wheat should be an even trade.

I always had the feeling that part of the thought behind the original design was to take advantage of production methods coming into use at the time, making them cheap and easy to punch out.
Too bad that didn't survive.

[muleequestrian]

I agree with Jumptrap.... I saw this model 95 at a local gun shop in town and had to have it, despite the rediculous price tag. I shoot exclusively cast bullets in it, but have popped a few jacketed loads I made just to see how it'd do. I lurk around here a lot, mostly on the paper patch section. I'd like to get a mold similar to the old Lyman 301620 or even the 301618 if I can find them. I'm pushing 311299 in it now with a gas check. The carbine is perfect for hunting around here in the dense brush of Maine. Unfortunately I'm turning 44 by the opening of this year's hunting season, and I don't care much for the sights that are halfway down the barrel. I still have 20/20 eyesight but I do have trouble with the sight picture on this thing.
The rifle is one of the best made I've ever had, and I own a lot of leverguns. Including a deluxe model 1873 made Uberti in .45 Colt. I want to avoid drilling or tapping any extra holes if I can.

I tried to come up with a scout mount to put a scope on the rear sight base and mount a scout scope like the one I have on my Marlin guide gun in .45-70 for bear hunting. Impossible to find one of those mouunts anywhere. I looked at the above mentioned links and don't want a Lyman type # 21, but wouldn't mind a # 38. Can't seem to locate one of those either. Any ideas about the Williams sight mentioned ? Where to fins a website with one of those for a new made 95 Winchester ?

[muleequestrian]

OK, I did the web search thing for the Williams FP 71. Brownell's looks to be the best bet. I'd like to check out a Lyman # 38 repro if I can find one. Mostly for ther reasons mentioned by BarryinIN -- seems like those sights look like they " belong " on the '95. The # 21 from Buffalo looks OK, but I'd prefer one of these sights with the windage adjustments. SOOOOOO..... any suggestions for a repro # 38 , guys ? Swap, sell, or trade if necessary ?

I'm going to deer hunt with this rifle this season and use cast bullets I make at home.

[Don McDowell]

For the Ukranian made 38 type sights go to www.buffaloarms.com. If they don't show one on the web page call and see if they might have one hanging around somewhere.
That's the sight I have on my rifle, and the workmanship and quality are very good. The windgauge adjustment is very well done. It's not hard to see how the price could be what it is.

[runfiverun]

since miroku made guns for both win and browning,and their relationship ended when it was discovered miroku was highgrading the parts/wood for their name brand. the knock-off is actually a better gun.

[insanelupus]

I've shot a couple of original Model 1895s and 95s and hunted with a pair, one .30-40 and the other .35 WCF. The Browning made models are excellent. I'm not as wild about the Winchester ones, mostly because of the tang safety and IIRC the Browning was closer to the original one in stock design than the Winchester, but I could be wrong on that. No doubt, the strength of the Browning and Japanese Winchesters is much stronger than originals.

In my opinion, this was THE hunting platform to beat for the western states at the beginning of the 20th century. The 1886 wasn't bad (though I firmly believe the 71 has it all over the 1886 in all categories but avaliable caliber chamberings).

As to the Lyman 21 and 38 sights I can not attest. I do put the Lyman aperature sights on about every rifle I can find to put them now days. The reproduction 21 and 38s had some parts that were brass which I didn't care for personally.

[StrawHat]

I have a Lyman sight on my 1895. Not sure what model #, just one I had laying about. For me it works great, giving me a nice long sight radius and focusing the front sight .

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Win1895action002.jpg

I wanted the rear sight that mounted on the slide but was unable to find it. So this was the next best. Never had the urge to mount one of the Lyman 21s as they looked flimsy to me.

[James C. Snodgrass]

I put a Marbles tang on mine and realy like it, it is the mid-range stem and has plenty of elevation for 300 + yards with a 200 rn lee at 2200 fps . Great rifles !! James

[Jumptrap]

I've shot a couple of original Model 1895s and 95s and hunted with a pair, one .30-40 and the other .35 WCF. The Browning made models are excellent. I'm not as wild about the Winchester ones, mostly because of the tang safety and IIRC the Browning was closer to the original one in stock design than the Winchester, but I could be wrong on that. No doubt, the strength of the Browning and Japanese Winchesters is much stronger than originals.

In my opinion, this was THE hunting platform to beat for the western states at the beginning of the 20th century. The 1886 wasn't bad (though I firmly believe the 71 has it all over the 1886 in all categories but avaliable caliber chamberings).

As to the Lyman 21 and 38 sights I can not attest. I do put the Lyman aperature sights on about every rifle I can find to put them now days. The reproduction 21 and 38s had some parts that were brass which I didn't care for personally.

I like my 95's, but I wonder, have any of you suffered 'lever bite' from the split lever? My .35 Whelen tends to render my middle finger into hamburger when shooting stout loads and not wearing gloves! Damn, that hurts! The 95 action is BIG and strong, but the magazine makes for an unbalanced carry. For that reason, for 'Big Medicine' I prefer the '86. No the class of cartridges are not the same, but for a heavy thumper, the '86 in 45-70 is a hunk of kick ass. The older I get, the more I like the little '92! I cut my teeth on a '92 in 38-40 and sorely miss that old rifle.

[Don McDowell]

Never had any leverbite problems with my 405, and find that it carries just fine in the field . Much rather tote the 95 for a weeks worth of elk hunting in the highcountry, than the squirming rolling savage 99

[StrawHat]

The rifle in the photo is a 405 and I have never been bit by the lever. I did suffer a bruised shoulder when the trigger was pulled before I settled the butt in place. Operator error and, so far, never been repeated. Really bad operator error.

[muleequestrian]

I like my 95's, but I wonder, have any of you suffered 'lever bite' from the split lever? My .35 Whelen tends to render my middle finger into hamburger when shooting stout loads and not wearing gloves! Damn, that hurts! The 95 action is BIG and strong, but the magazine makes for an unbalanced carry. For that reason, for 'Big Medicine' I prefer the '86. No the class of cartridges are not the same, but for a heavy thumper, the '86 in 45-70 is a hunk of kick ass. The older I get, the more I like the little '92! I cut my teeth on a '92 in 38-40 and sorely miss that old rifle.

No Sir, my 95 carbine in 30-06 doesn't bite at all. I also shoot cast boolits in it ( Lee C309-200R with a gas check ) So it ain't exactly a barn burner. I did pop off some jacketed bullets I loaded once to see how it did. Some Hornady SST in 165 grains. BIG difference in recoil. Where I live here in Maine we have a lot of heavy dense brush, but I also have a lot of open areas where it's possible to get a long range shot too. ( 500 or 600 yards easy... not that I'D EVER try such a shot though ) I think this year I might even ride one of my horses into " deer camp " instead of truck hunting like most of the guys here do. I have a blaze orange vest that is designed to fit a horse, so I shouldn't have to worry about some trigger happy hunter thinking he might get to eat a horse. I used to horse hunt some when I lived in Colorado before I moved to Maine. The county I live in now is the major producer of the blueberries for the US. We have a population of about 38,000 people scattered in an area the size of Rhode Island and Conneticut combined. Maybe 6 or 7 folks to the square mile if we're lucky. They're mostly crammed into little towns spread along the coast -- average size town might be 500 people or so.

Now you mention a " BIG MEDICINE " gun. I reckon for me that'd be my stainless Marlin Guide gun with a scout scope in .45 - 70. I stoke that with 525 grain cast boolits with a gas check. I got them from Beartooth Bullets to see if I'd like them. YEP. I'd like to see if LEE would make me a mold for something similar to cast from wheel weights. About 40 grains of IMR 4198, and you just about think it kills on both ends of the gun. So I got a Pachmeyer slip on recoil pad. Damned good bear killer too.

[muleequestrian]

I put a Marbles tang on mine and realy like it, it is the mid-range stem and has plenty of elevation for 300 + yards with a 200 rn lee at 2200 fps . Great rifles !! James

Thanks for the idea. I checked out Marbles tang sights on Buffalo's website. They make one for the tang safety on my 95 carbine. For aesthetics reasons, I'd prefer a #38 climbing Lyman, since they " look " right. Don't really want a # 21 since there's no provision for windage adjustments. So I may well end up putting a MArbles on it instead before hunting season this year.

[Don McDowell]

The 21 is windage adjustable, you just have to drift the rear aperature with a punch, exactly like a regular dovetailed sight.

[muleequestrian]

The 21 is windage adjustable, you just have to drift the rear aperature with a punch, exactly like a regular dovetailed sight.

Hmmmm..... I may end up with a # 21 after all. Same basic price as the Marbles set up. Anybody that has a Marbles or Lyman #21 new made from Buffalo, can you give me any insight ? I read / heard negative about them both. And positive too. Ah.... decisions, decisions, decisions.

[Don McDowell]

The new 21's are from the guys making the Peabody rifles. There was a short write up about it in Garbes's bpc news an issue or two ago.

[jhrosier]

Mule, I have one of the Marbles standard tang sights on my Browning hiwall.
It has a noticeable amount of wobble when it is extended.
I wouldn't be happy with this sight on a target gun.
This might be the only wobbly one that they ever made, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.

Jack

[ammohead]

Estimado Jumptrap!

Sure haven't talked to you in a long time. Yep, I got big hands and TR's big medicine...a miroku take down in 405. I use a mountain mould's 350 RF plain base with 45 gr of 4895 and find that I am alot better off if'n I leave my middle finger out of the lever! I bloodied the rifle last Nov on a Montana elk hunt, but it was a circus act with 3 people shootin at the same bull (sure glad my kids weren't there to see it). Made a hit to the liver just as another "hunter" hit it with a magnum and of course there was no doubt as to who kilt it. My guide kept yelling shoot shoot or I would have past on the whole deal. I checked out the kill and found at least one finger sized entrance wound from the 405. I was only too happy to let the very pleased with himself dude have the shot to hell raghorn.

Anyway back to the rifles sights. I put the william's receiver sight on it, but the front sight blade didn't fill the aperature right. So I went to the local hardware store and bought a steel bushing .500" OD and .375" ID and cut it .600" long. Then using a mill file cut a slot the long way just wide enough to slide over the front site base. I knocked out the pin holding the blade site in and drilled a hole crossways through the bushing. Using a longer pin, mounted the bushing and a new blade I made for the right height. Makes a nice globe sight and works like a charm. Looks like it belongs there too...more so than that butt ugly side mounted peabody contraption.

Nice gabbing with you again.

ammohead

[Don McDowell]

Here's a couple different views of a 95 with the Lyman 38 sight attached
.http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/4053lk375.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/405elk3.jpg

[Jumptrap]

Estimado Jumptrap!

Sure haven't talked to you in a long time. Yep, I got big hands and TR's big medicine...a miroku take down in 405. I use a mountain mould's 350 RF plain base with 45 gr of 4895 and find that I am alot better off if'n I leave my middle finger out of the lever! I bloodied the rifle last Nov on a Montana elk hunt, but it was a circus act with 3 people shootin at the same bull (sure glad my kids weren't there to see it). Made a hit to the liver just as another "hunter" hit it with a magnum and of course there was no doubt as to who kilt it. My guide kept yelling shoot shoot or I would have past on the whole deal. I checked out the kill and found at least one finger sized entrance wound from the 405. I was only too happy to let the very pleased with himself dude have the shot to hell raghorn.

Anyway back to the rifles sights. I put the william's receiver sight on it, but the front sight blade didn't fill the aperature right. So I went to the local hardware store and bought a steel bushing .500" OD and .375" ID and cut it .600" long. Then using a mill file cut a slot the long way just wide enough to slide over the front site base. I knocked out the pin holding the blade site in and drilled a hole crossways through the bushing. Using a longer pin, mounted the bushing and a new blade I made for the right height. Makes a nice globe sight and works like a charm. Looks like it belongs there too...more so than that butt ugly side mounted peabody contraption.

Nice gabbing with you again.

ammohead

Brother ammohead!

Slowly, I have managed to cross the tracks of several of the 'old heads' here on CB's and it's always nice to run into you fellers.

I bought my pair of 95's 7-8 years ago. I kept the Browning 30-06 as it was and because the Winchester has that tang safety on it.....I decided it would be the donor rifle for rebarreling. I had Dennis Olson rebarrel it to .35 Whelen using a Douglas barrel and the man did superlative work. When fed the Lyman 358009 over a pile of 4895, it tends to be a handful. Not being as rough and tough as many.....that split lever tends to remove a hunk of flesh from my middle finger when shooting the rifle. The 30-06 is a pussycat in comparison.

I still prefer the 45-70 with an RCBS 405 bullet (mine weigh in at 420 grains) cast of pure lead and launched at 1500 fps or so.

[ammohead]

Nice bulls Don!

ammohead

[Don McDowell]

Thanks

[muleequestrian]

Wow ! Wished I could look at one of those big bulls over the barrel of my '95 one of these days.

[Frank46]

You have to love the winchester 95 regardless what caliber except 405. Fired an origional once with the steel crescent buttplate. One shot was it for me. my 95 is in 30-40 krag. I seem to remember that they were furnished with different rear barrel mounted sights. I was wondering as to wether or not one could use the rear sight off a krag rifle 1901 vintage rear sight and still use the origional screw holes?. Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Redfield also made a receiver sight for the M95. I have one on my old Winny and would NEVER go back to the barrel mounted rear sight. The windage is adjusted be 2 opposing screws on top of the bridge that crosses over the receiver.
My rifle is in 30 GOV and I shoot bowling pins at 50 yards with it for fun.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have the Providence Tool repro sight installed on my Winchester 95 (30 US AKA 30-40) I love it. Its good looking and has a really wide adjustement range and yes is fully adjustable elevation and windage.

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/HPIM1295.JPG
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/HPIM1300.JPG

And she loves my Lyman 210 grain gas checks - in fact, it shoots them better than jacketed bullets.

[BarryinIN]

my 95 is in 30-40 krag. I seem to remember that they were furnished with different rear barrel mounted sights. I was wondering as to wether or not one could use the rear sight off a krag rifle 1901 vintage rear sight and still use the origional screw holes?. Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks, Frank

I'd like to know too. Mine is also in .30 Army (it's a SRC) and it came to me with what I take to be an M1901 Krag rear sight ladder stuck in the original Winchester base. I didn't know much about Krags when I bought it (still don't) so thought it might be a complete Krag sight, but it obviously isn't as it won't lay completely flat when folded down.
It doesn't look like anything was done to the sight ladder or base to match them up, as if it were a simple switch.

Although "incorrect", I think it is an interesting modification and I kinda like it because of that. Adds character, you know. I would like to put on a complete Krag sight instead (base and all), to keep the "character" but add windage adjustment.
I don't know how the screw patterns would line up, or if a Krag base can be adapted at all. I wonder if mine is half and half because the base won't adapt easily or if the ladder was what was handy at the time.

[Frank46]

Barry, thanks for the information. I to have a src in 30-40 bubba did a nice sanding job on the stock and cut a dovetail for a winchester spring type sight like you find on the 94 winchester. And to top it off took out the front sight blade and stuck in a silver dime and carved that into a new front sight. I have a replacement front sight blade made by marbles years ago. Hard thing about changing it out is he peened the
sight blade pin into the ramp and I'm having the dickens of a time trying to get it out
without damaging the ramp. The chopped up dime I could care less about. So if anyone else besides us two knows what type krag rear sight fits the 95 in 30-40 krag and is a src we need some serious help. Thanks all, Frank

[muleequestrian]

I have the Providence Tool repro sight installed on my Winchester 95 (30 US AKA 30-40) I love it. Its good looking and has a really wide adjustement range and yes is fully adjustable elevation and windage.

And she loves my Lyman 210 grain gas checks - in fact, it shoots them better than jacketed bullets.

This looks like the sight I'm going to end up with. Thanks !
And my SRC in .30-06 likes the same bullets.

[scrapcan]

Frank and Barry,

I have the 95/94 collector book adn it may have the dovetail dimensions and original sight options for the 95. I will try to remember to have a look in the book for you. Send me a pm if you don't hear from me in a day or two.

[O.S.O.K.]

This looks like the sight I'm going to end up with. Thanks !
And my SRC in .30-06 likes the same bullets.

I got my 95 on the cheap at a gun show. It's been refinished and the bore was frosted. It wouldn't do much better than 4" at 100 yards with jacketed bullets and would foul up really fast and groups would open up quick.

I firelapped it after reading an article on the subject by John Barsness in Rifle Magazine. That did the trick! It started shooting 2", 100 yard groups with the jacketed bullets and would hold that for 3 groups but then the fouling would take over.

So I tried the Lyman boolits - sized .310" and got the same accuracy but no deterioration due to fouling. So those are now "the" boolits for this rifle. I push them about 2000 fps.

[BarryinIN]

Frank and Barry,

I have the 95/94 collector book adn it may have the dovetail dimensions and original sight options for the 95. I will try to remember to have a look in the book for you. Send me a pm if you don't hear from me in a day or two.

Thanks.
Rather than hijack this thread any further, I'm going to PM you with some pictures of what mine has, if it's OK.

[405]

muleskinner:)
I have four of the things (35 Win, 405 Win, and two in 30-40) but none in 30-06. I imagine a full pressure '06 load in that carbine could be more than you'll want to handle.... regularly. That's what makes reloading and cast bullet shooting work so well in these instances. A couple of the bonus design features of this late great J Browning/Win lever gun is that it allows all manner of bullet shapes and, with the more in line feed from the magazine, a much smoother cycling of the "on deck" round into the chamber. Two of mine have the Lyman 21/38 like the replica you're getting from Prov. Tool?. I like the Climbin' Lyman on the 95s... much better than the barrel sights. Even a conventional, side mounted receiver sight would be good if no worries about the extra holes. Those short carbines can benefit from all the sight radius you can give them.

[Frank46]

Manletjt, thanks would be curious as to the various barrel mounted sight options. Trust me, my '95 didn't come with the dovetail factory cut. Think bubba done had his way with her. Frank

[scrapcan]

Frank and Barry,

I will get the info pulled and pm to keep the thread on track. It may take a few days as when I got home I found out I had loaned the book to a coworker. should be able to ge tit tomorrow.

[StrawHat]

Frank and Barry,

I will get the info pulled and pm to keep the thread on track. It may take a few days as when I got home I found out I had loaned the book to a coworker. should be able to ge tit tomorrow.


Or maybe start a new thread so the rest of us can see what was originally supplied? Please?

[scrapcan]

will do guys. There are about 17 pages of rear sight options total for the m95. Looks like 3 types of carbine/musket sights. Look for new thread or start one for us to post into.

[muleequestrian]

muleskinner:)
I imagine a full pressure '06 load in that carbine could be more than you'll want to handle.... regularly. Those short carbines can benefit from all the sight radius you can give them.

Yes Sir, you got that one right. I have made a few of the J - word handloads for this little gun to see how it'd do. Recoil with the steel buttplate ain't much fun. That's why I shoot GG cast 200 's in mine now. You're right about sight radius too. I got a ladder style sight half way down the barrel that makes for some tough shooting sometimes. That's why I was asking about a different reciever type sight...