Winny 1885 38-55

[ph4570]

Yesterday I picked up a new Win 1885 38-55 "for the wife". I had prepared for the homecoming by procuring brass, molds (250 gr LEE and 264 gr Lyman GC) researching loads etc. Indications (Winchester spec and web reports) were that the bore would be about .376. So I took a chance and sized 25 of each bullet to .377. I loaded each of the 25 rounds with 9 grains of Unique. I cleaned the Winny well and headed for the range. The first 25 shots were consumed with several cleanings and some tang peep adjustments. Those were the gas checked 264 grain Lymans. No leading was detected and the loads were mild. I did not chrono them.

For this inital outing all shots were at 50 yards.

My wife and I were taking turns and the groups improved as we started in on the second set of 25 with the LEE 250 grain no gas check boolits. I suspect the groups improved as we had stopped the cleaning cycle. The last 12 rounds were 6 shots from each of us on fresh targets. My group was about 1.25" horizontal with a couple in the same hole. My wife's group was 4 rounds in one ragged hole, fifth round touching that and the sixth 1/4" to the right.

Other stuff:
-- new Starline brass, sized, primer pockets and flash holes uniformed
-- alloy was air cooled WW and some tin with a BHN of about 15
-- primers were CCI non-mag
-- sizer was lyman
-- lube was homemade: bee's wax and molygraph grease (50/50)
-- When cleaned after the final shooting there was no leading. I think the LEE 250 gr will be a good one. Not to say I will not continue testing with the Lyman.
-- Front sight is a bead that will be replaced with a Lyman 17A
-- Rear sight is a tang Marbles that will be retained
-- Press is Dillon 550, dies are new RCBS "cowboy" with a .376 expander and a mild crimp was with a Lyman "factory crimp" die.

So, this looks like a promising shooter. I will slug the bore today after work. Based on the test rounds with .377 boolits I suspect the bore is near there.

[Doc Highwall]

Glad you like it, I have the same one and mine slugs at .3764". I am using the SAECO # 738 255gr boolit with NASA lube, Starline brass, Win primers and AA5744 powder. I am thinking of using the Lyman #93 front sight that is 7/8" dia and can use Anschutz inserts. To mount it I am going to use this ( picture below ) Item # 818605

[August]

I've had one for a few months now. I jumped on the Davidson's special edition as hi walls in this caliber are pretty dear and rare. I have been shooting 30-1 Lyman 330 grain sized to .356. Accuracy has been very good. However, it's difficult to get enough Holy Black in there with that big boolit (it is NOT a bore rider design).

With that set-up, I've found the Marbles sight doesn't have enough height to make it out to the pigs (300 yards). So, I'm thinking about two things. One, going to a lighter bullet, or having Paul Jones make up a bore rider at about 300 grains. Two, I've pretty well decided to put a mid-range soule sight on it in place of the Marbles. Like you, I intend to put a lyman aperture on the front.

My current AR frenzy has the hi-wall on the back burner. But, I'm anxious to get back to it. I appreciate your post and take it as encouragement. I, among others, will benefit from your future reports about the rifle.

[Gussy]

I had one. It was too light for what I wanted to do. It did shoot very well out to 1000yds with the lyman bullet and a booster load of black powder.

Sights....I put regular Browning BPCR long range sight set on it. It's a no mod fit.

Ejector....if you want to soften that, remove the fore arm, remove the ejector spring and replace it with the lightest you can find of the same size. Easy to do it slide right out and works great. Just softly pops the case out. It will not work if totally removed.
Gus

[ph4570]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Gussy, that is a good tip on the ejector spring. I will do it as I find it a bit too aggressive as is.

Doc, I looked at the Lynam #93 but thought, perhaphs erroneously, that it would sit too high. I'll ponder it some more as I have not yet ordered the 17A. Thanks for your barrel slug size info. I plan to slug mine this evening.

[ph4570]

The bore slugged out at 0.3765. With the same calipers the boolits through the .377 sizer measure right at .3770 (good job Lyman). Perhaps I'll open up the die just a bit.

[McLintock]

The Winchester is made by Mirouku of Japan, who also made the Brownings in that caliber. Assuming they used the same chamber reamer, you may be able to use the 2.129" length brass rather then the current 2.08-9" stuff. I can in my Browning and this will give you a couple grains more powder capacity with black, which would make it a better 300 yard gun. You also can put on a lower front sight and probably make that Marbles sight work to 300 or even beyond a little. The Browings have a real tall front sight and I put just about the lowest bead front sight on mine that I could get and got it to shoot to 500 yards with smokeless, where it was only good to 350-400 or so. It would let you do some longer range shooting until you could get the better sights. With the light barrel that they have and the case capacity issues of the 38-55, I found a 300-315 gr bullet about the best for black and the Lyman 375499 with gas check the best for smokeless. I've got a Paul Jones 300 gr'er and a Hoch 315 gr and both do pretty well, but only out to about the Pig line with black, even after putting a set of Browning BPCR sights on. They're excellent rifles though. In my avatar on the left, I'm shooting the Browning at 300 yards, on a 24"X16" plate, with smokelss and did 10 hits in slightly over 60 seconds with the Marbles sight and low front bead, it works pretty good.
McLintock

[ph4570]

McLintock,

Thanks for the comments. I believe the chamber will take the 2.125" brass but have not confirmed it. At the time I wanted brass no one seemed to have the longer in stock. I now see Midway has some so I think I'll get some after confirming the chamber. I do not intend to use black. I do not know if the longer brass has any advantage with with smokeless. I have little long range shooting opportunity. My local spot is only 100 yards. There is a 200 yard range about 1hr each way.

I have the Lyman 375499 and the Lee 250 grain. To date I get better accuracy with the Lee. However, I need to make the lyman drop some fatter bullets to see if that helps. With the Lee I can get 1 to 1.5" groups at 100 yards using 9 grains of Unique. So far with the Lyman it is more that double that. Much more experimentation to be done.

I really like the gun. My wife has shot it more than I. For a hoot I tried some loads with 6 grains of Trail Boss -- recoil was about that of a 22 RF and probably about the same report. Point of impact was 7 inches below the 9 grain Unique load and about a 4 inch group at 100 yards.

For load tinkering I put a scope on it. When I have a few loads I like we will go back to the Marbles tang and the Lyman 17A.

[McLintock]

With the Browning, which I slugged at .376", I found that either .380" or .381" bullets worked the best; why, I don't know, but they did and that's after lots of testing on paper. I used a .380" plain base 245 gr'er with 18 gr's of IMR 4227 for up to 300 yards, and it was very accurate and consistent. For 300 and up, since the Lyman 375449 mould wouldn't throw bullets bigger than .379", I bought the same bullet, but in .381" size, from Hunter Supply in Texas. Don't know where they got their mould, but it threw bullets that looked just the same as my Lyman mould. Anyway, with 31 grs of IMR 3031, it was even more accurate than the above load and reached out to 500 yards with the Marble sight and low front; great combination, but to shoot that far better sights, or eyes, were needed. The only advantage to the longer cases with smokeless would be if you wanted to develop a really stout hunting load. You could probably get 35-6 gr of 3031 or a good load of RL-7 and you'd be a max 375 Winchester type loads then. Good luck with your rifle.
McLintock

[ph4570]

McLintock,
I think I will try beagling the lyman to get fatter bullets. The Lee drops them around .381+ with my current batch of alloy. Based on your results and the fact that our barrels slug the same I think I may try some of the Lee as cast. I'll use a .379 case expander. That will be another experiment for the weekend shoot.

Thanks again for the load info.

[TonyT]

I have just had a Browning 1885 BPCR converted from 40-65 to 38-55 using a new Badger barrel of the same profile. Badger reputedly made the original barrels for Browning. I aam anxious to try out some loads in this rifle. I only wish one could find a better replacement trigger as the factory trigger can be best described as just plain awful.

[ph4570]

Today's shoot was with a single load as I did not get around to making fatter Lyman 375449. The load was Lee 250 gr, BHN 15, Star sized to .378, neck expanded to .376 and 9 grains of Unique. Six groups of five ranged from just under an inch to 1.75 inches at 100 yards. My groups were the larger and my wife's the smaller -- odd how I ended up with the less consistent loads! I suspect the gun and load will consistenly shoot sub 1" groups.

When cleaned a very slight leading was noted just beyond the chamber with the rest of the barrel clean. Think I'll try a bit larger boolits.

I beagled the Lyman mold and got .380+ drops. Think I'll size to .380 and neck expand to .379 for the next shoot. But I really cannot complain about the load/shoot of today.

[45r]

I don't have a 38-55 but my 45-70 sporter shoots moa with the saeco 350GC and the rcbs 300GC over 49 grains Vitt-133.The accuracy is quite good with my highwall.I'm glad I got one.

[ph4570]

45r,

I use the RCBS 300GC with good results in my 45-70 Marlin CB lever gun. I use 16 grains of Unique -- yes, I do like that powder of plinking rounds.

[excess650]

Some moderate smokeless loads for the 38-55 with 280gr Lyman 375449 would be 26gr Reloader 7, 28-30gr AA2015, or 30-32gr AA2200. I use LBT Blue for lube and only in 2 grooves. In the Browning you can up these loads, but I would shoot whatever seems most accurate.

[ph4570]

I cannot get the Lyman 375449 to fly well at all in my wife's winny 38-55. On the other hand, we each shot 10 round sub 1" groups @100 yds with the Lee 250 and 9 grains of unique this very morning. Guess I"ll stick with that load for paper plinking.

[John Boy]

First Range Test - Ideal 375166 (http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13911&highlight=375166)
http://www.three-peaks.net/images/375166_330g.gif