What to call all those things in the safe?

[ASM826]

In another thread,

Reference: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=59232 ,

a side discussion of what to call those lead throwers we keep in the safe began. I bring it up over here so as to not hijack the original thread, and because it raises some interesting issues.

They are tools, designed to do specific things in specific ways. By that definition, everything ever invented and made by man is a tool.

They are weapons, as is anything else I use to defend myself. By that definition everything from a rock to my pickup truck is a weapon.

They are firearms, specifically pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, automatics, etc.

There was an objection to calling them weapons. I disagree. While it is a tool, and a revolver, when I load it and put it in a holster in the morning, it is a defensive weapon, even if I never use it as such.

Also, language is a tool to convey information. When some posts a thread and calls their pistol a weapon I know what they are speaking of, it is not unclear. The use of the word does not obscure or confuse the content of the post.

[357maximum]

A table knife is a butter spreading device until I try to perforate your hide with it..........now it is a weapon.

A pipewrench is simply a tool until I swing it at your head, then it is a weapon.

A 2x4 is simply a piece of lumber until I swing it at your head, then it becomes a weapon.

A mini-van is a personell/crap hauling vehicle until you try to run your cheating spouse over with it...at that point it is a weapon.


A gun is a boolit/bullet launching tool until I point it at you with intentions....now it is a weapon.

A weapon shows intent............I do not intend to shoot you or anyone with my little j-frame on my side until given due cause to do so......then it becomes a weapon.


I really do not see what is so hard to get..........color me stumped, and confused.



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/weapon

every object in the world is a weapon at the time intent is made to use it as such...........I could attack/kill/slaughter/destroy/wound/injure/mame alot of people with a bale of wheat straw and and compressed air..........................that device is still not a weapon until I intend to hurt someone/something with it, until that point it is a cool straw launching device.

[tomf52]

I am 100% with 357 Maximum. I think if we refrain from using the term "weapon" and refer to our toys as firearms or whatever, it would due us well in dealing with the anti's who would then not be able to yell "See, even the sportsman think of them as weapons!".

[Doc Highwall]

I just call them tools. My mind is my weapon, always with me.

[jhrosier]

I feel that, within the bounds of good taste, family values and forum rules, a fellow should feel free to express himself in his own words and with no reference to political correctness. There is far too much of that sort of thing in the rest of the world and we should be away from it here.

I don't refer to my firearms as weapons even though there ore a few of them that clearly are, and have no other reasonable purpose, like the .357 mag snubby revolver or the FAL rifle. However, it doen't bother me in the slightest to see the word however it is used or misused.

I do understand thatt there are some folks who feel that calling a gun a weapon is a sure sign of bad breeding and reflects poorly on our group. I would have to respectfully disagree with them on this as I don't feel that the use of a single, common word will change who we are or what we stand for in any significant way.
The people who would look down their noses at us would do so anyhow and their opinions or approval are of no concern to me.

I can only add that I find it refreshing that such a large group of folks with different life experiences and interests can generally get along so well bound together here only by our interest in casting and shooting boolits. I would hope and expect that this minor point of disagreement would be handled by simply agreeing to disagree. After all, we got through the whole RPM thread with no fisticuffs (oops, maybe I shouldn't mention "RPM".):wink:


Jack

[mooman76]

To me they are guns. If you want to learn about weapons, work in a prison. Inmates can make a weapon out of anything, including toilet paper.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I once read advice on traveling/shipping firearms that they were often stolen when labeled of listed as a firearm. Author started listing them as maps & from that time never lost one or had a client loose one.
Tools is as good a label to me .

[Heavy lead]

Well [smilie=b: I was hoping we were ammune to this sort of thing. Diverse bunch we are, some can't spell, some try, some can't type a phrase without a cuss word, or at least use an acronym for it, I commented on that original thread myself and take no offense to the word weapon. I don't care what the anti's think, I guarantee you one this not using the word will not get them to back off and if you truly think it will, well read some history. Be whatever as it may though, I will refrain from using the W word henceforth in my posts, hopefully this will keep the fruit (of the loom) a little looser. After all I never really new the true spelling and definition before I found ya'll here of: BOOLIT

[Jim]

Single stroke adiabatic heat device

[August]

If I'm not mistaken, the NRA has asked us to call our firearms 'guns.' The 'W' words has connotations to the gun-phobic populace and is to be discouraged in our common reference to firearms. SASS is particularly strong in making this suggestion -- you'll get an earful if you call a firearm a weapon at a SASS match.

I think of the firearms in my safe as equipment for participating in various sporting communities. I hope none of them ever gets used as a weapon, by me or anyone else.

'Gun' works just fine and, IMHO, 'firearm' works better.

[dolang1]

Shootin arns. Later Don

[JSnover]

I understand the point and I'll make more of an effort not to use certain words out of context but does anyone honestly believe we will get "them" to lay off if we just stop using those words? I can hear the antis now, shrieking "When you pick up a single shot .22 and use it to blast a whole school bus full of kids, it becomes a weapon!!!"

[357maximum]

I was merely making a suggestion to make myself and more than a few others feel better.

There is no conspiracy from the moderation team, and i am sure 100% not all share my opinion. Agree to disagree with some.....that is fine. I simply find the word to be wrong in describing my toys, and tools.............to each their own.........no biggie.

[AZ-Stew]

I posted this in the other thread, but I'll re-post it here with a parenthetical addition.

I own a number of firearms. Some short, some long, some with smooth bores. I've tried to choose some of them to have characteristics that would also make them decent weapons, if I need them to be.

I choose (am not forced or coerced) to use the word "firearm" because it's both descriptive and not offensive to some people. I've found this to bear dividends during social debates.

Regards,

Stew

[RBak]

357 Maximum, no matter your intentions, both of your posts made good sense to me.

FWIW; I never gave any of this any serious thought, but after reading this it got me to thinking a bit.

I suspect I'm one to over use the term "guns"...to me, it only seems right.

I am an avid muzzleloader fan and wheter they are smoothbore of rifled, they are still a muzzleloader.
And, whether it's a modern rifle, or a modern pistol, it's still a gun.

Now it may come as a little strange, but I do think of my modern shotguns as shotguns....go figure!

I have never meant to touch on anyone's sensibilities, at least not intentionally.
I suspect most of us use the terminology we use because we simply never give it any thought.

Russ...

[357maximum]

I suspect most of us use the terminology we use because we simply never give it any thought.

Russ...

And some of us think far too much.............it all balances in the end :bigsmyl2:

[Pepe Ray]

357 Max
I agree with your post and have for many years. I've been sneered at as being a ---Woos? :-P But boys have a right to swagger and we must be "tolerant".
It will never change the world at this time. It's merely a way of expressing ones self.
I believe that the use of the word is counter productive in debate or teaching but we can only handle it on a personal basis.
Respectfully,
Pepe Ray

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive allways told people when the cringe at the way i use my guns, even my high dollar customs that they are nothing but a tool and are meant to be used like one. to me to buy one and stick it in a safe is about like buying a hammer and waxing it and putting it away in you tool chest and never using it.

[dale2242]

Firearms ARE weapons. That is what the military calls them. Not to sound like some PC fool, I think that calling them guns or firearms is less offensive to the average person. I explain to people that my firearms are used as sporting goods until I need to defend my home or family. Then they become weapons.---dale

[ASM826]

I recently started casting, and have only been casting in one caliber with two molds, so I am a newbie all around, as well as a newbie on this forum.

I come to shooting from a military background, and it would never have occurred to me not to call my lead throwing tools "weapons". This was an interesting discussion, and I want to thank 357maximum for replying since it was his earlier post that set me thinking about it.

[Bob Krack]

Every since I lost all my firearms, guns, weapons, and shootin arns in a boating accident - my safe has nothing but tools and my "valuables".

Bob

[357maximum]

I recently started casting, and have only been casting in one caliber with two molds, so I am a newbie all around, as well as a newbie on this forum.

I come to shooting from a military background, and it would never have occurred to me not to call my lead throwing tools "weapons". This was an interesting discussion, and I want to thank 357maximum for replying since it was his earlier post that set me thinking about it.

Your welcome, always willing to "discuss" something I am passionate about.

I just wish we all could sit at a real campfire in real time and in person. We could "discuss" boolit lube/alloy/rpm/tools........and get real time responses with the inflection you cannot convey over a computer screen....should prove entertaining.

two rules....no fist fighting, and no :takinWiz: in the fire......it stinks when yo do that:oops:.

[Old Ironsights]

Mos, Fritz, TJ, Ross, Bill, Harry, Indy, Plinker, Twisted, Noisy Cricket, Zulu & Roy....

[jhrosier]

... I just wish we all could sit at a real campfire in real time and in person. We could "discuss" boolit lube/alloy/rpm/tools........and get real time responses with the inflection you cannot convey over a computer screen....should prove entertaining....

That would be quite an event, for sure, and a heck of a big campfire too!

Maybe when it is time to retire the new 'mascot', we could get a little campfire put up there as a reminder.:cool:

Jack

[45 2.1]

I just wish we all could sit at a real campfire in real time and in person. We could "discuss" boolit lube/alloy/rpm/tools........and get real time responses with the inflection you cannot convey over a computer screen....should prove entertaining.

two rules....no fist fighting, and no :takinWiz: in the fire......it stinks when yo do that:oops:.

Soon enough........... Answer your e-mail.................

[13Echo]

Having spent a lot of time in the Army it is somewhat automatic for me to call a firearm a weapon. For the same reason I have trouble using the term "gun" for anything that isn't artillery or crew served. I think I'll try to stop using weapon when refering to firearms but I don't think I'll ever be able to call a rifle or pistol a gun. I'm certain Drill Sergeant Carter is just waiting to hear me say it again.

Jerry Liles

[gds]

I use all three terms all the time. I am not offended either way. There are people who I have dealt with that cringe at the use of weapon or gun, but seem ok with firearm. I have learned to use which ever term I need to to get a point across. However on a board about guns, firearms, weapons , bullets and reloading, I just do not see the need to have to "watch my tongue". I cannot stand someone having to curse every third word, It actually is very offensive to me, however it sadly seems to be the norm on just about every gunboard I am on. I just choose to ignore it, unless directed at me in an effort to be offensive. If anything that needs to be "cleaned up" long before someone is scolded for using the term "weapon". But just one man's opinion.

[dukenukum]

Private property :groner: :bootgive: :kidding:

[cajun shooter]

Heavy Lead, If my use of anything offended you while I was trying to get my point across then I will be big enough to apologise. It is the life that I lived that made me who I am. First I tend to react very fast because if I didn't I would be dead. I lost a lot of friends in the army and 7 fellow officers while a cop. Two of which were my riding partners. I put in 6 years as a Narcotics agent and was shot at and cut with knives on more than one occassion. Is this all an excuse to cuss, no way in fact I become offended when I'm in public with my wife and some young person is using 4 letter words in Wal-Mart. But as I said life has left me a little ruff around the edges and my passion sometimes gets the best of me. But I will tell you this even at my age now, call for help and I will be there to serve and protect!!!

[Geraldo]

Rifles, shotguns, pistols, and revolvers.

[runfiverun]

ditto.....
nice to see ya post nukem

[leadman]

I know this site has a number of young people that have posted and would like to see this encouraged.
I too was in the Army and had to call the M16 a weapon, and that was its only purpose in the Army. Even though I have many former military arms I do not think of them as weapons now. They are now firearms, guns, or rifles, shotguns, handguns, etc.
If someone refers to a firearm as a weapon my mental image is not of a firearm in sporting use. I wonder if the young folks are seeing the same mental picture I am.
I also know some of these young people will need to see their firearm as a weapon in their future. Hopefully this will come with the training they need to make proper use of their weapon.
Just my 2 cents.

[JSnover]

Maybe we do toss certain words around a little too freely. 'Silencer' is one that should be retired. 'Sniper rifle' is used and misused way too much by people who will never employ a precision rifle against a live target. A clip is not the same thing as a magazine. 'Weapon' is too broad, as others have pointed out.
If nothing else, we could muddy the waters less by using the right terminology.

[dukenukum]

The reason I answered the way I did is my mom had a stroke back in May. She came home five weeks later with home therapy and the first question out of their mouths was are there any guns in the house. last week she had a partial hip replacement and is back in therapy again.

[DLCTEX]

I gave lip service to the military's desire to have me call them "weapons" but in my heart they were and always will be guns. Even Roy Rogers and his ilk calling them "revolvers" could never dissuade me from guns, so it's not likely to happen now.

[Old Ironsights]

Maybe we do toss certain words around a little too freely. 'Silencer' is one that should be retired. 'Sniper rifle' is used and misused way too much by people who will never employ a precision rifle against a live target. A clip is not the same thing as a magazine. 'Weapon' is too broad, as others have pointed out.
If nothing else, we could muddy the waters less by using the right terminology.
+1 on that.

"Suppressors", "Moderators" or even "Cans" - NOT "Silencers". They don't and aren't.

Ditto on the rest.

[part_timer]

pea shooters or pumpkin chuckers

The big question is at what caliber does a shooter become a chunker????????

[Sprue]

Tools are to work with. Weapons are carried by Military personel (& perps) while Toys are to have fun and play with. My Toys are locked up for yours and my safety.

Reading between the lines, its easy for one to detect anothers background or past life experiences simply by the words/wording chosen or by dialog alone (i.e. the OP).

In further response, I have the same tollerance for the word "weapon" as for the word "clip". Call it a pet peeve I suppose.

[-06]

Most who have been in the military have heard this: this is my rifle, this is my gun-this is for shooting and this is for fun. I call rifles shooters sometimes. I try not to give antis any more ammo. Fast shooters for class IIIs and things that go boom for things that go boom. We never know who is monitoring websites. Of course I lost all my shooters in the tragic boating accident. wc

[zardoz]

Chemical to kinetic energy conversion appliance! [smilie=1:

[KCSO]

I kinda like GONNE lends a classic slant. Althought in a pinch thunderstick willl do.

[Old Ironsights]

I kinda like GONNE lends a classic slant. Althought in a pinch thunderstick willl do.
Drives the SCAdians nutz when I go to a Renfaire dressed as a Monk/Wizard and carry a Hand Gonne/Pole-arm as a Staff...

"Aye! Wherefore didst the wziard throw fire and thunder from his staff, and a great billowing of fumes from Hell didst engulf us!..." :twisted:

Almost as fun as dressing as a "peasant" and beating the snot out of armored SCA "Royalty" with nothing but a staff.. :twisted:

[bob208]

well from what i paid for most of them and what i see them selling for now. i would say best investment i ever made.