Special Loads for the .45-70

[Scrounger]

I'm getting a .45-70 barrel for my HandiRifle and it occurs to me that the .45-70 case is uniquely qualified for some special loads. Appreciate your thoughts and experience with any of these (possible) projects or any others you might come up with.
1. Multi-ball load. One of my first memories of Buckshot was his posting about a 3 ball load in a .45-70.
2. Can't imagine any need I'd ever have for this, but up until recently both the Navy and Coast Guard had line throwing guns in .45-70. Shooting fish and pulling them in??? Cats?
3. Shotshell. If we can do it with .357s and .44s et al, no reason we couldn't make some .45-70 shotshell loads to shoot Purple Martens, oops, I mean Starlings or pigeons. Use .410 shotshell wads?
4. I'd like to develop a flare load, one that goes up maybe 500 feet and a fairly slow rate of speed. Be nice if it could explode (?) at that point. Sort of like a rocket or Roman Candle. Hopefully without any fire danger. Tough assignment.

[August]

Suddenly my neighbors don't seem so bad......

Just kidding. However, I'm genuinely glad you are not testing your flare load in my back yard.

I have done single, round ball loads in the Gov't and they work great!!! Can't remember the recipe, so I can pass it along. There used to be loads for multi-ball Gov't loads floating around. My memory is that they were three ball loads, just like you're thinking of.

Report back on these projects from time to time.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm getting a .45-70 barrel for my HandiRifle and it occurs to me that the .45-70 case is uniquely qualified for some special loads. Appreciate your thoughts and experience with any of these (possible) projects or any others you might come up with.
1. Multi-ball load. One of my first memories of Buckshot was his posting about a 3 ball load in a .45-70.
2. Can't imagine any need I'd ever have for this, but up until recently both the Navy and Coast Guard had line throwing guns in .45-70. Shooting fish and pulling them in??? Cats?
3. Shotshell. If we can do it with .357s and .44s et al, no reason we couldn't make some .45-70 shotshell loads to shoot Purple Martens, oops, I mean Starlings or pigeons. Use .410 shotshell wads?
4. I'd like to develop a flare load, one that goes up maybe 500 feet and a fairly slow rate of speed. Be nice if it could explode (?) at that point. Sort of like a rocket or Roman Candle. Hopefully without any fire danger. Tough assignment.

I too have done single ball loads, they are fun but since I got the Rapnie 460250 moulds I haven't shot them anymore. I have data for 3 ball loads at home if you really want it? Smokeless or BP?

Shotshell load; Fire formed case, 10 gr Unique with 1/2 gr dacron over powder, Federal 410SC wad (push in solidly on top of dacron with dowel rod), fill with #7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot level with case mouth, Seat inverted GC or .006"+ wad over shot, applied heavy roll crimp. Velocity is 1160 fps out of my M1873 H&R carbine. With the 1-22" twist the pattern is good enough to ground sluice quail and grouse out to 25 yards. The dacron is necessary to prevent powder mitigation around the wad which is not a tight fit in the web of the case. I've fired 10 shots of this load and had no leading so the Fed wad cup works.

Can't help with the flares, I don't get lost.

Larry Gibson

[Scrounger]

Thanks, Larry. Smokeless. And I've been lost all my life....

[SharpsShooter]

Perhaps if you put a flaming cat over the muzzle and discharged a 3 ball load it would launch said cat to the altitude you desire.

[Bodydoc447]

Is this similar to the lyman "collar button" mold?

Doc

[Scrounger]

Perhaps if you put a flaming cat over the muzzle and discharged a 3 ball load it would launch said cat to the altitude you desire.

But CarpetMan charges a fortune for his cats...

[KCSO]

You missed my favorite, a copy of the old Sharps exploding bullet. The right size drill a 22 blank and a lead 45-70 bullet and Boom! They work!

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks, Larry. Smokeless. And I've been lost all my life....

I'll post the smokeless loads tonight when I get home. You percahnce weren't a 2LT with a compass, the most danderous person on the battlefield:-)?

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Is this similar to the lyman "collar button" mold?

Doc

No, it is a RN FP. Mine weigh out at 275 gr and drop at .461 cast of range lead. They are quite accurate out to an unbelievable 500 yards. I amazed myself and a Delta/SOTIC sniper instructor by hitting a 8"x12" steel plate 10 times in a row at 425 yards one day out of my H&R trapdoor carbine with a Type III M1879 sight. Load was 8 gr of Bullseye pushing the bullet at 1063 fps. I actually have a set of consecutively cut 2 cavity moulds so i can cast gobs at one sitting. I load them on my Dillon 550B, I shoot that many of them out of 3 TDs.

I shoot have also mentioned that instead of a collar button I use the Rapine 460210HB. This casts a very hollow based 210 gr almost WC bullet for original TDs. I used it quite a bit over 6 gr of Bullseye for 940 fps when I had daily access to an indoor range. It will put 10 shots into 1 1/2" at 50 yards all day long and is a real squirrel/rabbit killer out to 100 yards or so. I don't use it much anymore as I mostly use the 275s.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

I too have done single ball loads, they are fun but since I got the Rapnie 460250 moulds I haven't shot them anymore.

I've looked at Rapines illustrations of that boolit before, very poor illustrations too. It sounds like it is just a heavier version of the old gallery boolit the military used for practice. It would be a good group buy boolit. A six cavity for that would be fine. Any possibility of some as cast samples to draw up.

[Larry Gibson]

I've looked at Rapines illustrations of that boolit before, very poor illustrations too. It sounds like it is just a heavier version of the old gallery boolit the military used for practice. It would be a good group buy boolit. A six cavity for that would be fine. Any possibility of some as cast samples to draw up.

I plan on casting some up next week. PM me with address and I'll fix you up. You want 'em sized .461 and lubed? Javelina or BP lube?

Larry Gibson

[singleshotbuff]

Scrounger,

When I had my NEF 45/70, I used to shoot .452" pistol boolits with Unique powder. Great close range plinkers. Accurate, quiet and cheap.

SSB

[Dale53]

I have borrowed a Lyman Collar Button mould for my 45/70 Ruger #3 and have cast a pile up (he won't sell me the mould :???: ). I have yet to shoot them. I need to lube some up and load them for a trip to the range.

Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks, Larry. Smokeless. And I've been lost all my life....

Well here's the smokeless 3 RB load I worked up. It's been a long time since I used this load. It was fun to work up and it did ok in the TD. I used Hornady .457 RBs tumbled lightly in LLA. I tried several powders all in the burning range close to Unique and found that Unique worked best so I stuck with it. Though of trying 4759 but didn't have any at the time. Three of the RBs will average 438-440 gr.

I sized the cases so the RBs were a friction fit all the way down. I found 11 gr of Unique with the three balls pushed down solidly on top of the powder group ed the best at 50 yards. In this case "group" is a relative term. I found the three RBS would most often stay on a B-27 target (large police siihoutte target). The problem with the load was the three balls were bushed down into the case below the mouth about a quarter inch. One time the top ball came loose and slid back and forthe held by the mild crimp. I didn't care for that. To keep the balls together so the crimp was into the top ball left about .26" space between the powder and the bottom RB. That left room fo things to shift around also.

I have a .45 cal muzzle loader and happened to have some .45 wonder wads. I shoved two of them down onto the powder. I was using the ball starter of the muzzle loader but a dowel of appropriate size would work. Seating three RBs on top left just enough of the top RBs circumferance below the case mouth for a decent roll crimp. That seemed the magic combination in the TD as it would keep the three RBs in a 8-12" group at 50 yards. So there you have it, my minimal start. I'm not sure one would get much better groups that that because they are consistant with the best reported of the original "guard" load. Whether the use of 4759 will work without the use of the wonder wads I don't know. While it was fun it was also a pain and I've found much greater happiness with the two Rapine bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I have borrowed a Lyman Collar Button mould for my 45/70 Ruger #3 and have cast a pile up (he won't sell me the mould :???: ). I have yet to shoot them. I need to lube some up and load them for a trip to the range.

Dale53

I have a friend who won't sell his either, some friends huh? Anyways the Lyman #38 manual shows a load of 5 gr Unique for that button at a 900 fps estimated velocity. We tried it and found it wanting in the extreme spread department, That translates to not very consistant ignition. I don't have the data on what ended up the best charge but it was a light load of Bullseye. Somewhere around 4-5 gr I think. I'd start at 3 gr and work up in 1/2 gr increments. Should be fun.

Larry Gibson

[McLintock]

For your shotshell loads, might try using a .45 gas check on each end of the shot column, and crimp in the top one using a normal crimp die. Works good in .44 or ..45 pistol rounds.
McLintock

[Larry Gibson]

For your shotshell loads, might try using a .45 gas check on each end of the shot column, and crimp in the top one using a normal crimp die. Works good in .44 or ..45 pistol rounds.
McLintock

Yes but it leads up the rifle barrel like crazy. That's why I went to the shot cup. With it's use there is no leading.

Larry Gibson

[Bucks Owin]

Which barrel are you going with? The std length or the longer "target" barrel? I too have an NEF Handi in .45/70 and was thinking of getting the longer barrel....

Dennis

[Dale53]

Larry;
Thanks for the collar button info.

Wills;
No, they do not make the collar button mould. That's why I tried to buy my friend's mould. If Lyman still made it, I would just order one. Lyman moulds are still a good value. What would be still better is if Lee made a six cavity collar button mould. NEI Still makes the moulds as does Rapine. However, they are both a bit pricy. However, if it works out for me I just may have to "Bite the bullet" (pun intended:mrgreen: ) and get one from NEI.

Dale53

[Scrounger]

Which barrel are you going with? The std length or the longer "target" barrel? I too have an NEF Handi in .45/70 and was thinking of getting the longer barrel....

Dennis

I'm not a fan of long barrels, I'm going with the 22 incher. A longer barrel would serve no purpose at all for me here as I'm going to put a scope or Red Dot on it. Different strokes....

[rbreit]

Quite a few years ago I loaded some 3 ball loads for my then new Marlin 1895. I used .45 wonder wads and .440 round balls that they were made for. The powder charge was a load of Unique as listed in the Lyman cast bullet book for a 500 grain bullet. I loaded the powder, seated a wonder wad with a short starter, seated a ball in the wonder wad, another wonder wad etc. They shot a 'group' that was covered by my palm at about 40 yards. Kind of a geewhiz thing... I never did anything for shot loads, but would be interested in hearing about successful ideas.

[mooman76]

Another site was talking about snake shot loads in a 44 and what one of them come up with was to load the powder in the casing. Flare out a shell casing and use that like a cookie cutter on the styrofoam that meat comes on in the supermarket. Use one disk against the powder and put in the shot, then another on top with a roll crimp to hold it in place. He said it works good! Might just work on 3 round balls too!