lead alloy questions

[XWrench3]

please educate me to some degree here. i have only been at this a short, short time, the only thing i have smelted and cast with is wheel weights. the other day, i called a local salvage yard looking for more, and he said i wanted pure soft lead for boolits, not wheel weights. (personally, i think he has a bunch of soft lead he wants to get rid of, as he was trying to sell me some hard) now, that is just the opposite of what little that i think i know. i have head or read that soft lead is perfect for black powder boolits, but for modern stuff, wheel weights is the preffered alloy. if i understand it correctly, wheel weights are even fine in a rifle as long as the velocity does not get rediculous (< 2000 fps?). over that area, linotype is the preferred alloy, is that right? also, in rifles (or magnum pistols) at what point do i need gas chex? and speaking of gas chex, why are lyman gc's a lot more money than hornady's? thanks in advance for the help!

[mran1126]

Wheel weight alloy is almost a perfect alloy for bullet making. Usually it is mixed with pure lead 50/50 lead/wheel weights. Sometimes a ver little tin is added to aid mould fill out ( 2%)

[geargnasher]

+1 on that.

WW are perfect for most applications with just 1-2% tin added by weight. If you want harder, water-drop them or heat treat, if you want softer/more malleable, add pure lead or scrap from jacketed bullet cores. (Or from the Joe that was trying to sell you pure lead. You might buy some if you can carve it with a knife to be sure it is soft).

Gear

[runfiverun]

don't be scared to mix pure and ww's 50-50 for revolvers at normal velocities.
if you need them harder water drop that alloy, it is a good one for hunting alloy in rifles.
if he has soft and you can't get ww's or other lead you gotts make what you have [can get] work.

[243winxb]

Wheel weights to 900fps. Lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin to 1400fps. Above 1400 fps a gas check is needed with Lyman #2 alloy or linotype. Air cool. Click for larger photos. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_Alloy_20090610_1.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Alloy_20090610_1.jpg) http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_Alloy_20090610_2.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Alloy_20090610_2.jpg)

[MakeMineA10mm]

As you can see there are MANY different opinions to your questions. In general, what you've gleaned is pretty accurate.

In general, I think your feeling that the scrapper has a LOT of pure lead he wants to get rid of is true. I'd play that to your advantage. Go in and tell him that WW are what you want, but if he needs to get rid of some pure, you'll help him out and mix it a little at a time with the WW to get rid of it for him...


Wheelweights have changed composition over the years. They've tended to have gotten softer. I have a stash of several hundred pounds of WWs that my dad collected in the 70s. These have about 1-1.5% tin and probably 4-5% antimony in them. They produce beautiful, hard, shiny grey boolits just as-is. Modern WWs that I've collected through the 90s and 2000s (of which I have a couple tons), are probably around 0.5% tin and 3-4% antimony (at most). I've been mixing the old and new about 1 old WW ingot with 2 new WW ingots. I'm making melts up that weigh 75 lbs or fractionally more, and to that, I add 1 lb of tin. My guess is that my alloy is right around 4% antimony, 2% tin, 93.5+% lead, and .5% or less other elements (including arsenic). If you only had modern WW, I'd cut the antimony by around 1% and add that amount to the lead. This alloy will cast boolits that work perfectly from 800fps to 1300fps when air-cooled. Water-dropping them will get you to about 1600fps, and doing a real heat-treat to them will take you all the way to 2000fps to 2200fps.

Linotype and other type alloys (which can be alloyed with pure lead, WWs or other lead to get close to linotype) can be driven fast without any heat-treating. I have two 50-lb bars of lino as well as a couple 5-gal buckets of the lettering. I personally think shooting lino straight is a waste of the hardeners that it contains. When I need some boolits harder than water-dropped WW alloy, I'll mix some Linotype with WWs to give me a hard-enough alloy that is not so expensive. (I don't plan on shooting any cast boolits faster than 2200-2400fps.)

When shooting at low velocities, or with black powder, you want softer alloys. These shooting circumstances develop very low pressures and for the lead boolits to work properly (obturate), they need to be soft enough to deform to fill the throat or bore of the firearm. Also, if you want a hollow-base to expand, or a hollow-point, likewise, you need a softer alloy. When I want soft, I mix about 60% pure lead with about 40% modern WWs and add around 1% tin (for castability). I just made some HPs with this alloy, and the boolits are so soft it is a challenge to get them through the gas-check seater and sizer without deforming them. I can't imagine trying to make these out of pure lead. (Guess that's why muzzleloaders like round balls so much - nothing to deform - same shape, all the way around! :grin: ) Now, with this alloy, I can get leading real fast if I push them too hard. I'd stick to under 900fps - 1100fps with this alloy, depending on the roughness of the bore.

[leadman]

I don't know where you are located, but I have run into the same thing here in Phoenix.
Not many wheelweights in the scrap yards, but lots of soft lead.
The scrap yards said they were shipping the wheelweights out of the country.

[snaggdit]

43WinXB, where did you find that first chart? I have found my wheel wheights around here to average 11-12BHN with a Lee tester. Anyway, +1 on the above info. From what I have found and learned here, WW for pistols (or 50/50 with pure) up to 1000/1100. Magnum straight WW, maybe water dropped for high end magnums. Rifles, water dropped WW, 8:1 WW/Lino water dropped or straight lino to 1800-2200. Around that top or slightly higher, heat treat. Don't expect to get much faster without tweaking stuff. These are just suggestions. Your gun may like less or more hardness, and sizing to grooves is VERY important.

[243winxb]

snaggdit, Alloys vary from lot to lot. If you have 2% antimony with a good lube, 900 fps is ok. I am sure scrap metals are used to make wheel weights, same as bullets made by Winchester, Federal, Remington. GREAT READING HERE > http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2002/peters.htmCharts are photos i took of a Lyman instruction paper that came with my new moulld. The instruction sheet has all the needed information to cast great bullets. Don't know if its still included with new moulds today. Photos here http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa

[randyrat]

Here is more reading than you want in one night. Of course, these numbers vary a little from the Lyman #s depending on your alloys,they all vary some.
When i make boolits (cast bullets) and want them consistant i always weigh them after everything is up to temp and your keeping the same tempo casting. All depends on how picky you want to be for a certain boolit.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
you'll find a vast array of articles on this page. Scroll down a ways on the front page and you'll find recipes. There are so many they make me dizzy.

[JSH]

First off don't ever tell them what it is for. Especially if it is for shooting. I have found a lot of salvage yards to charge per pound by what ever application it is. GF's brother has a couple of modified dirt cars. I always try to keep all my slag for weight blocks for him. Just heat up and pour into what ever sized square tubing to bolt on.
I always tell them when they ask what you are doing with it, weights. That covers a lot,lol.
One yard I have went to in the past was a real die hard racing fan. I gave him a new T shirt and he started dumping 5 gallon buckets of lead in the back of my truck. You would have thought I gave him a winning lotto ticket,lol. I had told him what it was for.
On the same note went to another place and tried the same thing. H e wanted $3 per pound of raw WW! I called the same place from work and told them it was going to be for fishing weights, $1 per pound, go figure.
Never ever dress well either, the dirtier the better. Don't be pulling up in front of the place in a new Avalanche and try to act the part. Buddy of mine tried that, didn't work either,lol.
jeff

[243winxb]

why are lyman gc's a lot more money than hornady's? Hornady makes the gas check and sells them to Lyman. This is what i read from a reliable source. Is it true? Who knows?

[runfiverun]

it is true.
i must have the hardest ww's in the world.
i can easily push them over 1600 without g/c's and not lose accuracy.
but then again i do everything wrong. i use the wrong lubes too i hear.

[XWrench3]

First off don't ever tell them what it is for. yep, i already know that. i dont know why half the world seems to HATE guns, and anything to do with them!

randyrat, that is a GREAT link! thanx!

i have another question, heat treating is heating the lead almost to melting, then water qunching, correct? if so, how much differnce does that make than simply water dropping the boolits right out of the mold?