450 Webley ??

[jim4065]

Worth $150.00 ??

[KCSO]

Sure is, now you can be Sherlock Holmes. If the bore is good shortened 45 Colt cases and about 18 grains of FFG and you are in business.

Arm yourself Watson the games afoot.

[jim4065]

Went ahead and picked it up via my son. Unfortunately I won't get to handle it for a week and a half. He says it does not have the "RIC" stamp, but does say "Police" and have a picture of some hands in cuffs. Sounds interesting anyway.

[HeavyMetal]

Which round does this take?

Reason I ask is that some where in the garage I have a baggie full of 44 Bulldog rounds.

No use for them, don't know what they go to, got them with a bunch of other stuff, Somebody need them?

[jim4065]

I think those are .440 diameter bullets. This guy also has a couple of 44 Bulldogs for sale. I'll see if I can get a price from him. Here's some pictures that he sent - not much help.......

[KCSO]

I have made 44 bulldogs from 44 special rounds by trimming them and the same 18 grains of BP works nicely. If you check out the Guns and Ammo archives, last year if I remember right Garry james had a nice article on loading and shooting the 450 and tied it in to Holmes.

[Springfield]

Just make damn sure you don't shoot smokeless rounds through it. I have a Webley Bulldog with a destroyed cylinder 'cause I believed that common talk that "light smokeless rounds are the same as BP". They aren't.

[jim4065]

Just make damn sure you don't shoot smokeless rounds through it. I have a Webley Bulldog with a destroyed cylinder 'cause I believed that common talk that "light smokeless rounds are the same as BP". They aren't.

I guess then that the Fiocchi "450 Short Colt" rounds are bad here also?

[Springfield]

Those are exactly what blew up MY Webley.

[Gray Fox]

If the .44 Bulldogs become available, please PM me with the details. I'll have to check my copy of Cartridges of the World and see if my .44 American dies will work.

[Springfield]

It's a paperweight now.

[Cannoneer]

If I've got my page right, the .450 webly used a .454 bullet and the case was about the same length as the .45 Cowboy Special that Springfield sells at Whyte Leather Works. At least that's what I gleaned from my "American Cartridges and their Handguns"

[Dutchman]

Went ahead and picked it up via my son. Unfortunately I won't get to handle it for a week and a half. He says it does not have the "RIC" stamp, but does say "Police" and have a picture of some hands in cuffs. Sounds interesting anyway.

Check the frame, barrel and cylinder for markings like the Liege proofmark (ELG).

Also a stamp like AF (August Francotte). Or a crown over R (rifling proof Belgium).

RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) has become a rather generic term with little meaning anymore. Similar to "Bulldog".

If you could scan both sides in a larger format I'd like to see if I can do some digging on it later.

It sounds like a generic Belgium revolver that was marketed towards civil police forces. If it doesn't say "Webley" its not a Webley. And if it doesn't have a caliber marking on it then you have to start from scratch with measurements of the cylinder chamber, chamber throat, bore/groove, etc. There were quite a lot of stubby revolver cartridges.

Dutch

[linus9]

"I guess then that the Fiocchi "450 Short Colt" rounds are bad here also?"

ABSOLUTELY YES!

for some unknown reason, fiocchi has loaded the "450 corto" very hot. although dimensionally the same as 450 adams, they cannot be used in its place. ive shot some in my webley mkVI and they kick harder that standard .455 mark II ammo.

it seems unthinkable that they would do this as most guns that are able to accept .450 adams ( or 450 revolver) are very old.

mike

[GJames]

Couldn't agree more. Have finally decided against using Fiocchi factory loads in all my vintage .450s. I've even gone to the trouble of taking the Fiocchi .450s, pulling the bullets and reloading with black powder. To be fair, there were period smokless powder loads available for the .450, but my guess is they were not as stout as the Fiocchi.

[jim4065]

Check the frame, barrel and cylinder for markings like the Liege proofmark (ELG).

Also a stamp like AF (August Francotte). Or a crown over R (rifling proof Belgium).

RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) has become a rather generic term with little meaning anymore. Similar to "Bulldog".

If you could scan both sides in a larger format I'd like to see if I can do some digging on it later.

It sounds like a generic Belgium revolver that was marketed towards civil police forces. If it doesn't say "Webley" its not a Webley. And if it doesn't have a caliber marking on it then you have to start from scratch with measurements of the cylinder chamber, chamber throat, bore/groove, etc. There were quite a lot of stubby revolver cartridges.

Dutch

It does say Webley - in fact, it says "P. Webley & Son" and "London & Birmingham". It also has POLICE over Webleys (cuffed hands) M. P. I'm convinced that it's a genuine Webley - made between 1854 and 1897 (when they became known as Webley & Scott). It looks like the second gun shown in this thread: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=31951
except that the markings seem much more legible on my revolver.

[StarMetal]

Couldn't agree more. Have finally decided against using Fiocchi factory loads in all my vintage .450s. I've even gone to the trouble of taking the Fiocchi .450s, pulling the bullets and reloading with black powder. To be fair, there were period smokless powder loads available for the .450, but my guess is they were not as stout as the Fiocchi.


Mr James, welcome to the forum. I really like and appreciate all your articles and work with the old firearms.

Joe

[dubber123]

Couldn't agree more. Have finally decided against using Fiocchi factory loads in all my vintage .450s. I've even gone to the trouble of taking the Fiocchi .450s, pulling the bullets and reloading with black powder. To be fair, there were period smokless powder loads available for the .450, but my guess is they were not as stout as the Fiocchi.

If you are the G. James I think you are, I too would like to welcome you to the forum. I enjoy your articles on period firearms very much.