.38 s&w

[zxcvbob]

I want to load just a few cartridges for a S&W topbreak revolver. I have a .38SW trimmer, and was going to cut and trim fired .38 Special cases and use them unsized with very light loads (and see whether they fire-form or if they split.) I have a Lee universal expander die to bell the cases, and I can crimp them with a Lee .38/.357 FCD adjusted short.

The big problem is what to use for a bullet? I stupidly sent back my Lee .358-158-RF mold that dropped boolits at .362" (I should have kept it and bought another, then send the 2nd one back if it was also too big) I don't want to modify any of my molds, and I don't have a .362 bullet sizer.

Can I shim a .358 mold with some heavy-duty aluminum foil to temporarily cast larger boolits? Then I can load them as-cast, lubed with Rooster Jacket. I could just cast some .358 boolits using pure lead, but I don't think they'll obterate enough at the low pressure this ctg works at.

If this works, and if the brass splits, I'll order some new Starline cases. It's an old gun and I don't plan to shoot it much.

BTW, I read in another thread that Lee's .38SW sizing dies are too small and size them down to .38 Special diameter anyway. Maybe a 9mm Luger sizing die would work...

[wiljen]

some of us have a GB 38/200 mold and might be willing to send you some .362s if you needed.

[Leftoverdj]

.38 S&W cases made from .38 Special brass are going to have very thick sidewalls. Dunno how fat a bullet you can get into them and still have them chamber. I strongly suspect that even if you can get .362 bullets, they'll be a lot smaller than that after they are forced into the case.

If you happen to have the Lyman Multi expander kit or the right size "M" die, you can expand those side walls before loading. For just a few round to make an old gun go "bang", I would not be too fussy. I'd load 148 grain HBWC, hope the skirts would expand to seal, and if I had some leading to scrub out, so be it.

[zxcvbob]

For just a few round to make an old gun go "bang", I would not be too fussy. I'd load 148 grain HBWC, hope the skirts would expand to seal, and if I had some leading to scrub out, so be it.

That's a really good idea, if I can load them long (maybe 1.20" OAL) and still have them chamber OK. Thanks.

[JIMinPHX]

Trying to fireform undersized straight-wall brass with a (too)lite load is a good way to get a lot of blow back of hot gasses & assorted other crud rushing back towards your face. Be sure that you have plenty of protective gear if you try that.

I have had some people tell me that cut down .38 special brass will split every time you fire it in a .38 S&W. I've had other guys tell me that they do it with no trouble at all. I don't know what the different guys were doing differently, but apparently, there is a way to make it work & not everyone knows it.

If it were me, I'd just buy a box of .38 S&W ammo, then reload the brass. .38 S&W ammo is not exactly a garden variety item anymore, but it is still available & not all that hard to find if you actually go looking for it. I've seen it on the shelf at Sportsman's Warehouse several times (bought it by accident once about 5 years ago) & I've seen it advertised on several of the websites that that carry good selections of ammo.

If you're just making a few boolits, then you might try casting them out of dead soft & then mashing them down in a press to fatten them up a little.

[chevyiron420]

I want to load just a few cartridges for a S&W topbreak revolver. I have a .38SW trimmer, and was going to cut and trim fired .38 Special cases and use them unsized with very light loads (and see whether they fire-form or if they split.) I have a Lee universal expander die to bell the cases, and I can crimp them with a Lee .38/.357 FCD adjusted short.

The big problem is what to use for a bullet? I stupidly sent back my Lee .358-158-RF mold that dropped boolits at .362" (I should have kept it and bought another, then send the 2nd one back if it was also too big) I don't want to modify any of my molds, and I don't have a .362 bullet sizer.

Can I shim a .358 mold with some heavy-duty aluminum foil to temporarily cast larger boolits? Then I can load them as-cast, lubed with Rooster Jacket. I could just cast some .358 boolits using pure lead, but I don't think they'll obterate enough at the low pressure this ctg works at.

If this works, and if the brass splits, I'll order some new Starline cases. It's an old gun and I don't plan to shoot it much.

BTW, I read in another thread that Lee's .38SW sizing dies are too small and size them down to .38 Special diameter anyway. Maybe a 9mm Luger sizing die would work...

i use 38 special brass, BUT, i have a long expander die that i use somewhat deep in the case and it expands the case part of the way. i adjust it so the cases just fit in the cylinder. makarov dies are the best, but i have loaded with a luger die. a NON carbide luger die is tapered so you can adjust it to just partialy size enough to hold the boolit. you dont want much boolit down inside the case. in other words if you used a 148 gr wadcutter you would seat about half of it in the case and half out. it would help if you said what gun you have. if its a little H&R or Smith, or the like you want to use super lite loads. alot of those old guns were very week and loosened up fast. alot were made for black powder loads. if its an enfield that may be different??? you want to try to get a good boolit fit in the cylinder and barrel and keep them soft.

[Buckshot]

..............Get the Lee 380 Makarov die set to reload your 38 S&W's.

................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Depending on which S+W top break you have you may find yourself with a real jewel, IF you can see the sights. I've been surprised at the accuracy of a few top breaks in the oast, but the shooters all had very good eyesight. Even one of the little jobs with no trigger guard in 32S+W shot fine groups at 50 feet, well within small game shooting needs. I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it.

Buy or beg a few rounds of real 38S+W ammo.

[jonk]

Buckshot,

I think you mean the Lee 9X18 Makarov set, right?

Been meaning to try that myself. The Lee 95 gr Mak bullet should make a fun plinker and at .365, if it chambers, should be no problem... otherwise bumping it down a few thousandths should be no issue.

[zxcvbob]

Old man that goes to my church showed me one that he had wrapped up in an oily rag in his workshop. A pre-war S&W topbreak. He had one or two rounds of ammo (didn't look like the right stuff; too short) and said he'd shot it before, but couldn't find ammo for it. I thought I'd load a few for him. (really light stuff) Assuming I could load it with the dies I already have.

But the gun was such a handy size, and I've always been a sucker for topbreaks and other unconventional actions, so I've started looking for one. I've found a few turn-of-the-century 4th models that look pretty good, and I could try out my new 03FFL <g> (one of them I think is an 1898, if so it could be mailed w/o a FFL)

Yes, I'm talking about shooting 100+ year old guns, and using smokeless powder to do it.

[JIMinPHX]

You can find loaded ammo or brass at the links below. Some is by the box. Some is by the round.

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/521
http://www.grafs.com/ammo/36
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=642
http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21/products_id/1046
http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/33/products_id/1298

[gds]

I have done exactly as you are talking about. Trimmed down some .38 sp brass and used .358 148 wadcutters. Accuracy was alright and surprisingly had little to no leading.

[chevyiron420]

I have done exactly as you are talking about. Trimmed down some .38 sp brass and used .358 148 wadcutters. Accuracy was alright and surprisingly had little to no leading.

i put my lee case spinner thing in a small vise and slip a spacer over the case. then i use my air cut off tool to slice off all the extra sticking out of the spacer. it leeves me with .005 left to trim. my first loads years back were 148 wadcutters as cast at .360, tumble lubed, loaded with a smidge of bullseye. 10 rounds fired in my smith plugged it up with lead so bad the rifleing was covered.

[zxcvbob]

I think I have 100 or so Berry's 148 grain plated HBWC's leftover from a few years ago. I wonder how those would work? This is starting to come together.

4.0 grains of Herco should be a pretty hot load that is still well below the SAAMI limit of 17000 psi. But in a pre-war topbreak, 3.5 grains would be a lot gentler on the gun. Herco is quite bulky, and slow enough to not give a big pressure spike.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/8DAF2A1F0B9E0C6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/5F1992A31630875/standard.jpg

............In my Iver Johnson 38 S&W I use the Lyman 35863, 150 gr DEWC 'as cast' of pure lead which drops from the mould at .363". I tumble lube them and place them in Starline cases over 1.6grs of Red Dot. This delivers the mind numbing, and eye watering blistering ballistics of about 460 fps :-). I do believe the .012" bbl/cyl gap contributes to that.

http://www.fototime.com/B8AC5913DE564B1/standard.jpg

This is a full (5 rounds) cylinder load at 25 yards. Considering that the front blade is so thin it almost disappears, and the rear sight (being generous here) is a tiny fairly usless 'V' I consider that group Match Grade, HA! An amazement to me is the absolutely superb craftsmanship exhibited in this old nightstand revolver. Not a tool mark to be seen, the frame knuckle is tight but smooth. As can be seen in the photos, the polishing job is 1st rate. No dished out pin or screw holes evident. It can be shot DA or SA.

Whatever the amount of considerable pride shown in it's fit and finish, it really isn't a revolver you'd pick some book load and 'Work up from there' type deal. By the time you show any pressure you're already living dangerously IMHO. It's utility now is in being fun to shoot, which it does well. It's also fun to just look at and handle.

.................Buckshot

[JIMinPHX]

my Iver Johnson 38 S&W

Would that little honey be old enough to still be stamped with the name "Iver Johnson Bicycle Co." & an owl's head?

[Echo]

I gave my Baby Boy a Police Positive in 38 S&W for Christmas 30+ years ago. We loaded them with HBWC's or Lee 140 gr SWC's over 2 gr BE, and he was a happy camper. No leading, very accurate. We used regular 38 S&W brass, and RCBS dies. Sad song - sold it all.