What's experience with H&G hi-cap molds?

[Jaybird62]

I've seen a few H&G molds on some of the auction sites that are 8-cavity and 10-cavity, and I was wondering if anybody had experience using these high-capacity molds? What's their performance? Also, H&G molds are pretty pricey... why? Do they cast any better than other molds?

[HeavyMetal]

H&G molds are the "Cadillac" of the industry!

Made during a time when the next biggest maker did a 4 banger these were the molds of choice if you shot any type of center fire match's.

I had the oppertunity to use a friends pair of H&G 68 molds left him by an Uncle during my IPSC days in the 70's and 80's.

These molds had to be 20 years old and performed flawlessly! I loaded for 5 guys, I made they paid, and never had but the minimum "scrap" of cast boolits.

They always dropped clean and I never had to beat on them to drop boolits. Sadly the guy got a job offer on the East coast and took the molds with him!

I did look into buying a set to replace these and, with money in hand, called to place an order.

H&G was in Oregon, I think, at that time. The deal never took place because the woman taking the order on the phone had all the sales skills of a dead frog!

What killed the deal? Delivery time and the attitude problem.

When got to the point in the order placing process where I would pay I natrually asked what a delivery time was on my $400 plus order.

I was told they'd get to me when they got to me and no sooner!

Confused I asked what the lead time was. The answer was he makes them when he feels like it and we ship them when we feel like it and thats how we do business take it or leave it!

At the time I was....unhappy and, of course, never placed an order.

These days I realize that George Hensley was really winding the business down at that time but his order taker could have handled it better.

Sadly I think she was so tired of people calling she'd just taken to chasing off the business!

Original molds have attained a "Cult Status". Shooters that have them don't sell until they can't shoot any more. Family then sells the stuff on e bay and they do go for good money.

Ballistic Products, I think, bought the H&G line and are currently producing molds.

I don't know what the pricing is but don't be surprised if it isn't on par with what you see them selling for on e bay.

Will I ever buy an H&G mold? Yes, if one I want "floats" by me at a price I want to pay.

I made the move to Lee 6 bangers when the first came out. While not the quality of the H&G's they non the less produce boolits that are just as good and shoot just as well.

The difference in price certainly helps deal with the minor issues one has when one sets them up the first time.

Bottom line is the H&G's are everything that people claim they are and then some. This explains the price they sell for, if your willing to step up and pay.

[theperfessor]

I have a 10 cavity H & G mold (#258 - .410 220 gr SWC Keith style) that I purchased a few years ago for about $250. I spent a few days casting up a bunch of .41 bullets from out-of-production molds (see thread on .41 mag bullet porn) ranging from 2 to 10 cavity models. The big H & G was the last of several I used and it turned out to be the one that I spent the most time using and got the least number of good bullets to show for it.

The negatives:
(1) Even preheated it took a long time to get to proper temp. There is a lot of mass here! Part I will attribute to getting residual oil/grease out of cavities. Even though I thought I cleaned it thoroughly it took a while to get past raisin stage.
(2) Fatigue factor is real high. There is a lot of weight here! Got real tired real quick so that by time mold cleanliness/heat issues were resolved my arms were too tired to cast many keepers. Found out that I couldn't treat mold like it was a 4 cavity Lyman or 6 cavity Lee.
(3) You need a BIG pot to keep enough alloy available to feed mold. At 10 boolits x 220 grs + generous sprue puddle it only takes 2 or 3 pours to drain a lb of alloy from pot. I use Lyman mag 20 bottom pour and returned sprues immediately to pot but it was still like flushing a toilet! Don't know if you could even ladle cast one of these big rascals.


The positive:
(1) Once I started getting good bullets I started getting GOOD bullets. I got a little over 100 good bullets and miked about half of them. Every one was round within .001 and all were within +/- .001 of being same size.

The solution:
(1) I plan to make improved mold guide to make it easier to guide mold under pour spout.
(2) I also plan to make a frame to rest mold on when cutting sprues and dumping bullets to take load off upper body.
(3) Better cleaning prior to casting.
(4) Higher pre-heat temperature of mold prior to casting.
(5) Preheat more ingots to keep pot temperature up while refilling.

Conclusion:
I think if I treat mold as being unique item and not like a smaller mold I can get lots of good bullets in one session. I will make sure I have plenty of time to get everything right and then I think I can easily get 2000+ (a years supply for me) good boolits in a couple hours.

I would NOT go to this much trouble for boolits I could get from a currently produced multi-cavity mold, but since Lyman discontinued 410459 I will use this as my go-to .41 boolit.

If you buy one you will get a fine mold, but remember that it takes some work and time to get it to produce.

[FISH4BUGS]

The perfessor hit it right on the head. I have a fair number of H&G 6-8-10 cavity moulds, and my biggest gripe is the warm up time of the mould. I would like to put them on a low gas flame on a stove to preheat but I am afraid of harming them. I paid dearly for some of the 6-8-10 cavity moulds so I don't want to do anything that hurts them.
I have a 10 cavity S55 (380) that I shoot my MAC M11A1 380 submachinegun with the cast S55 over 3.2 gr of 231. It is not at all uncommon to take at least 10 pours (100 bullets) OR MORE to come up to temp and start producing keepers. Shooting a 380 with a rate of fire of over 1200 rpm NEEDS a lot of bullets to feed it.
But man, once you get it up to temp and casting, the output is phenomenal! A mould guide is a mandatory fixture. 10 at a pop and they all fall out of the mould like rain. It is really a piece of machining masterpiece with the workmanship of these moulds. An afternoon of casting can easily produce 2000 bullets. What do you think we do here in New Hampshire in the winter?
You said they were pretty pricey. You are right. Are they worth it? Personally I think they are. The quality of workmanship is evident even after all these years. I have a couple of flat new 4 cavity H&G moulds that are a sight to behold. I almost hate to use them eventually, but the quality of the product wins out over collector's quality. I USE mine.
I think you can do just fine with a 4 cavity or maybe a six cavity H&G. If you REALLY NEED output, for instance shooting machine guns with cast bullets, output is the key. 6-8-10 cavities are mandatory. You can bang out a ton of great cast bullets in a short period of time. The bullets will just fall out of the mould.
WARNING: you can be turned into a casting snob by using H&G moulds. I kid you not. Don't ask me how I know.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

All of the advice and discussion above is true. I have mostly 4 cavs, but a few 6 holers. Once up and going, the production rate of 6 bangers is phenomenal especially if two molds are used in tandem. The problem is that a pot cannot keep up with the demand for melt. It is possible to feed a gang mold with an open soup style or plumbers ladle. There is an excellent article on this in the NRA handloading book. The method is to feed "going uphill". Until one gets enough practice...and it takes some, the sprues are pretty grotesque and there is a fair amount of splashing, but when you get the hang of it things go better. You still need a 20 pound pot or more to keep up the supply of metal. The quality of the workmanship in H&G molds is very high and casting with them is a pleasure. The designs and cherries were taken over by Ballisticast which still takes orders and turns out the same quality. The cost is high but imho worth it if you are serious about casting. There is a web-page findable thru this forum, put together and maintained by Texas Flyboy that has pretty much eveything you might want to know about the history of H&G, pics of the various molds and a lot of interesting info. You can search the links or PM TF for info or details. LLS

[hammerhead357]

Heavymetal, I don't know who you talked to at H & G but Wayne Gibbs ran the place for the last 20 or so years they were in business and IIRC his wife and perhaps a daughter were the office help and I had nothing but great experience with them. I think Waynes wifes name was Sharon but don't hold me to that.
Yes they were always backlogged but I never had them be short with me and I could nearly always talk with Wayne if I needed to. They also had a woman that was doing the preliminary cutting of the moulds and then Wayne would finish them by hand.
I had at one time about 44 sets of 8 & 10 cavity H & G moulds, now I only have about 1/2 that many thanks to a divorce. But I still use what I have and wish I had the others. Well I could go on but will shut up now....Wes

[HeavyMetal]

Maybe I caught someone on a bad day? It happens to the best of us but the last place you want it to happen is when a customer is prepared to place an order!

I still have very high respect for the quality of the mold produced by H&G, haven't seen any of the ballisticast stuff so can't comment.

However: whom ever answered the phone that day at H&G cost the company a paying customer. No company can afford that at least not for very long! I never called back and I found an alternate souce of gang molds.

Are they H&G quality? NO way in H.....! But I can buy pretty much a copy of almost anything H&G made, I can get it from pretty much every shooting supply house in the country, in a reasonable time period and I won't get an attitude when I place an order!

Sadly I can only guess at the reasons behind the phone converstion, what I can tell you is what I heard on the phone.

I can also tell you that this conversation with H&G gets brought up every time we hire a new girl to answer phones.

Bottom line is if I ever hear anyone talk to a customer like that he'd better be a dead beat that owes us 50 grand or there gonna be scraping dog do out of sweeper hoppers until they can retire and collect Social Security!

[Bret4207]

I have an H+G #50 38WC, IIRC it's a 10 cav. Snagged it for $80.00 off Ebay. The Perfessor called it right. But using a pot that holds close to 30 lbs, a Rowell 1 lb ladle and resting the mould on a solid object gets oodles of perfect boolits post haste. The mould is a work of art.

[mtgrs737]

I have an H&G six cavity that I bought from a fellow member here that casts 45cal. 230 gr. RNF or truncated cone style 45 acp boolits. It is a massive mould with Lyman nutcracker style handles. I really like the style of boolit it produces but it does take a while to get it warmed up. It and my 4 cavity 185gr. SWC model #70 are joys to use and drop the best quality boolits of all my moulds, I have about 60 total mostly Lymans and RCBS and Saeco's. H&G really is the best of all. IMHO they are worth the price.

[hammerhead357]

I only rarely lift a mould after I get it set on the mould guide/heat sink. My set up allows me to just pull the mould off the heat sink a little and rest the handle pivot nut on the heat sink while I open the mould and tap the boolits out. Then I just lift the handles a little and slide the mould back on to the heat sink and start pouring again. This has served me well for over 25 years. Now I will admit that it takes awhile to get used to cutting the sprue in an aukward manner.
I preheat my moulds on an electric hot plate with a thick piece of steel sitting on it.....Wes

[Dale53]

I have several H&G Moulds. My personal opinion, particularly at this stage of life, is that their four cavity moulds are near perfect. My H&G four cavity #130 in use is like shelling corn. I drop the lead using a bottom pour RCBS pot, slide the mould to my left under a small manicurist fan for two seconds while my sprue hardens, then I open the mould and they fall out onto a padded surface. It's just that easy.

I only have one of the six cavity H&G moulds - it is a #251 dbl ended Wadcutter for .38 Special and .357 magnum. It requires pre-heating on a hot plate (my hot plate has a solid sheet steel top on the burner) at just higher than medium (I'm not sure I could EVER get it hot enough by just casting with it). After it is pre-heated, then it is ALL GO! Almost NEVER get a bad bullet. However, it is so heavy (there is a LOT of steel in a six cavity H&G mould) that I am near worn out after running 21 lbs of bullets through the mould. The mould weighs near five pounds. That is just too much for continuous use. That's why I prefer the four cavity H&G mould.

MeHec's six cavity aluminum moulds are now my pick for Gold Standard. They are extremely easy to handle, give near perfect results, and don't cost an arm and a leg. They are sized correctly, also. I can run a pot full through them and even tho' I am a worn out old man, I can run another pot.

FWIW
Dale53

[Jack Stanley]

The first mold I bought from them was a number sixty-seven in a four cavity mold that I still use . I think it was the early eighties when I ordered it and sent a money order and just waited for it . Through the years untill they closed I bought a couple more four cavity molds and three or four six cavity Alway just sending in the money and waiting I was very sad when they sent my last order back for a mold I wanted to use in my forty-four magnum , the news was they were retiring . I guess I can't be mad at them for that .

My first experience with running the six cavity molds was after I got a job at the department . I'd go in on my days off and cast bullets for the gun club using their six cavity molds ... four or five of them I don't remember . I'd feed them with a ladle from an eighty pound electric pot that could easily keep up . When the mold was full , I'd pass it down to a trustee who would cut the sprue empty the mold and pass it back into the line up for me to fill . Heavy ? ..... yeah the six is not unmanagable . If I were ever to get the larger molds , I would make a casting box to hold the mold without having to pick it up .

I've got a couple of the number one thirty four cavities that I agree that they are the easiest molds in the world to use ...... a fella could get snobbish easy :-D

Jack

[Texasflyboy]

The comments have pretty much been covered but I will toss in my .02:

1. Wayne Gibbs, the final owner and operator of Hensley & Gibbs (Wayne was the son of James Gibbs, the original Gibbs in "Hensley & Gibbs") told me that once autocast machines dropped in price under a certain thresh-hold in the late 1980's the demand for 8 and 10 cavity moulds dropped by over 75%. Because of the drop in demand, and the time and effort required to make 8 & 10 cavity moulds, it did not make business sense to offer them anymore. The cost and profit points favored 4 and 6 cavity moulds from that point on. By 1994, Wayne had stopped offering 8 & 10 cavity moulds, unless it was a very special offer.

2. In regards to casting with 8 and 10 cavity moulds, to replicate the suggested equipment to properly take advantage of the production level these moulds can attain, you need to have a foot activated bottom-pour casting pot with at least a 100lb alloy supply. I was fortunate enough early in my research to visit a dedicated commercial re loader in Houston, Texas who had a collection of over twenty 8 and 10 cavity Hensley & Gibbs Moulds. He had made, on advice from Wayne Gibbs, a custom bottom pour casting pot that held 75 lbs. of alloy. Through a coincidence, I ended up owning this very same pot for 4 years, after the owner retired and sold it to a friend. The friend had no idea how to connect it all together to make it work, so he "loaned" it to me. It took me over 6 months of patient analysis to decipher the setup and get it working. Once working, I was able to dramatically increase my production rate of bullets using my 8 cavity #34 .45 225LRN H&G mould. When I realized how many bullets I could cast with a single 8 cavity mould, I started buying more wherever I could find them. I was buying them all on eBay in the mid-90's when most folks (including me) had no idea what they were buying. When I had to return the loaned pot, it inspired me to create my own, which I did, and chronicled the construction on Cast Boolits. I made a page dedicated to this pot, and you can see it here:

Cast Boolits Model 1 Casting Pot (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/newpot/instructions.htm)

I have a video I shot when I was in Houston of me casting with two ten-cavity #115's and the new Cast Boolits Model 1 pot. I will post a link to the movie tonight when I return home and can access the Cast Boolits ftp site to find it. The link will be here after 9PM EST.

With my current setup, it is feasible to cast enough bullets to fill a standard .30 caliber ammo can in about 2.5 hours of casting. That's approximately 3,000 125 grain 9mm LRN's.

3. If I didn't have access to my monster pot, I would certainly feel well armed with a 4 cavity or 6 cavity mould. With commercial off the shelf bottom pour casting pots (RCBS comes to mind) you can easily keep pace with your cast bullet needs unless you are into IPSC or IDPA. I am actually contemplating making another bottom pour casting pot out of a single 6" stove element that would hold about what a RCBS pot holds. Because I need a smaller pot sometimes.

4. Regarding Hensley & Gibbs in the late 1980's and 90's I can tell you that by this time Wayne was working more for the love of what he did rather than the money. What finally killed off Hensley & Gibbs was insurance. During a routine Q&A with their agent (a newbie) when they found out that Hensley & Gibbs made "Bullet making machines" their next quote for liability insurance pretty much did the company in. Without affordable liability insurance, Wayne decided it was time to retire.

Wayne has always been gracious to the extreme when I contact him. I would assume that everyone has a bad day, sometimes more than once in a year, and would expect that a follow-up call might have gone a bit better. We will never know.

[Texasflyboy]

I had at one time about 44 sets of 8 & 10 cavity H & G moulds, now I only have about 1/2 that many thanks to a divorce. But I still use what I have and wish I had the others. Well I could go on but will shut up now....Wes

Hi Wes,

Do you have a #331 by any chance?

Tom Dugas

[hammerhead357]

Tom, sorry no I don't have a 331 mould and I don't even have a sample of the boolit.
Wish I could help but can't on this one.....Wes

[Dale53]

texasflyboy;
Thanks for the nice report. I also re-read your LARGE pot report and AGAIN enjoyed that:mrgreen:.

Hammerhead;
It would be a "good thing" to see a picture of your production set up.

Dale53

[Texasflyboy]

Here is the Quicktime Movie of me casting with two ten cavity Hensley & Gibbs Moulds. The design is #115, 120 grain lead round nose for 9mm.

The movie was shot in 2007 when I was still living in Houston. I was in a large freight warehouse at one of the airports, working, well, mostly working, and using the free 240V electricity.

The pot spout is activated by a foot pedal I step on with my right foot.

The movie file is about 16MB so don't click the link unless you have a big pipe to the internet:

Cast Boolits Model 1 Pot in Action (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/a/04112007.mov)