Midway

[nighthunter]

I have been a customer of Midway for 20 some years. Yesterday they sent me an email showing 500 55 grain Sierra Blitzking Bullets for about $33. The email said they were available till 4/2/06. Today when I was going to order them the ad wasn't there. I emailed them asking about it. They sent me an email saying that they sold out really quick and were no longer available. To me this falls into the "Bait and Switch category of advertising". It is very missleading at the least. This is the first major beef I have had with Midway. Has anyone else had this type of thing happen to them with Midway?
Nighthunter

[shooter2]

I am also troubled, but for a different reason. Recently I had three items on my order list. Only one of them was in stock, but backorders were "OK". I could live with backorders, but not when they charge me twice, or more, for shipping.

[versifier]

I have had similar problems several times with sale items. I don't do much business with them anymore. It seems the last few times when I thought they had a good sale price, I posted them to be helpful and got a list of other suppliers with better prices. I'm amazed that you actually got a reply from their customer service. I have given up on that more than a year ago.

[JSH]

nighthunter, I have had the same thing happen, more than once. I even tried to get them to sub somthing else and a NO GO. The last time I got one of those too good to be true adds they were gone the next day. I emailed and called them and told them if they didn't have at least a pallet of sale items that were a good buy they were pissing a lot of folks off.
Any more I don't get any to excited about any of their monthly fliers or even their catalog as far as that goes. I figure if it is in their catalog it SHOULD be in stock at all times, NOT. Have been bumped that way too. I will pay a few $ more andget everything I want from one source myself.
Jeff

[Larry Gibson]

I'm not sure I'd call it "bait and switch" as they really do have those items on sale. Also while there is the usual way to get to the main catalog the site does not take you there unless you click on it. Usually they have quite a few of the sale items but the adds go out to thousands of customers. I've found you've got to make a quick decision to buy or not. They are usually sold out in short order. I made the decision at 2 PM Friday to order and was successful (1,000 of the 55 gr Blitz's, 500 Speer 150 gr 30-30s and 2,000 of the 405 gr cast 45-70 bullets). As soon as I finished ordering and called a friend about the Blitz's. He jumped right on it but they were sold out that quick. He got the last of the 45-70 cast bullets. Midway is in business and like most "sales" these are to sell their over stocked items. Whayou really want to look for if you want lots to order from or can't make up your mind in time is their "Truck Load" sales.

I've been dealing with Midway for years and have never had a problem that wasn't fixed right away to my satisfaction. I have changed items on backordered items and paid the difference or was refunded the difference. I also understand that some "back ordered" items are really "special order" items and I don't expect a refund or them to substitute another item unless that item is no longer available. That is just common business practice. Talking with someone on the phone in customer service is not difficult. I make sure I have the order number. I have had few problems and consider their service as good if not better than any other mail order outfit.

All I can say about these little sales is be quick and don't procratinate as they are usually very good deals and the items go quick. I can't sit here and cast 405 gr 45-70 bullets for 4 cents apiece + shipping. The Bliz kings were half price at least! Didn't take me long to order!!!.

Larry Gibson

[C1PNR]

I've not had any real trouble with Midway. They're not as good as they were some years ago, but the "Dealer discount" is still a very nice incentive.

I just deselect any items that are not in stock so I have no backorders.

I seldom order sale items but can sure understand the frustrations when you order early and it's already sold out. I just received my flyer from AIM with the Hungarian 7.62x54R by the case or box ON STRIPPERS!! I got it on a Saturday and they were out when I called Monday AM.:cry:

[StarMetal]

I haven't had any trouble with Midway. I also get a dealer discount from them so I don't care about their sale flyers. Think about this guys.....if you crossed off companies that mess up everyonce in awhile....soon you won't have any company to buy from. Honestly...I think Midway, Grafs, Midsouth, and Wideners are real good to do business with. Here's an example of service I got from Midway. Midway is in Missouri, I'm in TN...I ordered off the internet one day and I had the products in my hands in two day...honest. To me that's darn good....and fast service.

Joe

[JSH]

I am not going to cross them off my list or anything. I will say they are not my first place to look for things.
As big as Midway is on a customer base, I just think it is well stupid to run an add on a close out that the head cashier at the walmart would know it would be sold out in less than 24 hours. I have seen some of their daily or weekly internet specials, I would think that would be a better way to go about such clearance or bait and switch items.
Several years back they had a sale on Sierra bullets, similar to this very instance. One fellow I know happened to be going by Columbia and stopped in. They gave him a flyer and said they would go on sale at said price in the date on top of the flyer, so he had the flyer before it would have reached him through USPS. He called first thing on the first day of the sale and wanted several hundred of the sale bullets. They supposedly only had 3 boxs of 100 and that was it.
He called me and told me of the sale and what happened. I had not even recieved my flyer yet. That is what tends to chap folks.
Also it is kinda funny it seems to be Sierra bullets most of the time, especially when they are with in rock throwing distance from one another.
Jeff

[Eric Ellingson]

Guys, thanks for your understanding. I work for Midway...sometimes we run out of items. The bullets he was looking for were a special one time run we got from Sierra. Thats why they were about half price, we got a good deal on them and passed it on to our customers. However, when they were gone...well, we have to treat all our customers the same way. If we can get more at that price we will take backorders, if we can't the sale is over. I am around here about all the time if you ever have an issue with MidwayUSA I would be glad to talk to you about it.

Thanks,

Eric

[nighthunter]

Today I had a phone conversation with one Eric Ellingson. He is the The Contact Center Supervisor. He has more ways to say "NO" than the guy on TV that is either for an insurance company or a credit card company. I would bet he has one of those bouncing head little doggies on the ledge near his rear window that shakes its head at every bump and then says "NO". I'd bet that his eyes are wired into the turn signals. He is not a nice person to deal with but if you have any problems with Midway you can contact him at 1-800-243-3220. I have asked for my problem to be passed on to the owner and we will see what happens. I just sorta have the feeling that Midway has seen the last of my orders. If they recant the "NO" I will post and tell you guys. I will also post all the emails on this subject that I've had with Midway includeing the email that admits that it was their fault for the shortage. Someone there just doesn't have any remembrence of what they were before they got too big for their britches.
Nighthunter

[trooperdan]

Guys, I have to side with Midway on this one. After all, would you be happier if they never had great sales but always had all the items in stock? I appreciate that they have these "odd lot" sales; sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. I like that I can see their inventory when I'm shopping and if they are out and I can't wait, then I have to order that somewhere else. Usually though I'm not in that great of a hurry.

Here is a hint; if you are looking for something on sale, put it in your wish list then if it is on sale you'll get an email telling you it is on sale! Another thing, I have a C&R FFL and they give me a little bit of a discount for having it.

[Scrounger]

To put that in perspective: If you had two cars and decided to sell one, you placed an ad in the paper and a man called at 7AM and came over and bought your car. Someone else calls at 10AM and gets angry because you won't sell him your other car, or maybe you will sell it but you want more money for it; Does he have the right to get angry at you and stand out in front of your house and call you names? If Midway sold SOME bullets at the advertised price, then they fulfilled their obligation.

[nighthunter]

Oh ... now if you are a dealer or have a dealer liscence you get preferential treatment. It justs get better.
Nighthunter

[StarMetal]

Nighthunter,

You can get a C&R license easy enough too...so quit belly aching.

Joe

[Gunload Master]

I have to admit, I've never shopped at Midway before, and from my first experience today I probably wont. I'll back that up.

Just browsing around their site from the discussion here, I noticed this little puppy:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=142193

I got a Ruger P89 and quite a few clips, nothing in the 30 range so I thought that would be pretty slick. Created my account to go buy it. Get hit with some $3.00 "Special Handling" charge, and the shipping on that clip is $9.56. Now I know it's shipping and handling but to me paying $12.56 to ship a $24.00 item is way to excessive.
Sorry Eric, but that is a bit too overpriced.

[cabezaverde]

If Midway had any amount of product, I don't think they did anything wrong.

Nighthunter, it is very common to give discounts to dealers or licensees. In my book, Midway has comitted no foul here.

[StarMetal]

I have to admit, I've never shopped at Midway before, and from my first experience today I probably wont. I'll back that up.

Just browsing around their site from the discussion here, I noticed this little puppy:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=142193

I got a Ruger P89 and quite a few clips, nothing in the 30 range so I thought that would be pretty slick. Created my account to go buy it. Get hit with some $3.00 "Special Handling" charge, and the shipping on that clip is $9.56. Now I know it's shipping and handling but to me paying $12.56 to ship a $24.00 item is way to excessive.
Sorry Eric, but that is a bit too overpriced.

Willy,

If you look at Grafs, they claim no shipping charge, but they have a handling charge. If you compare their prices to say like Midway, who has shipping charges, you'll see the total prices are very close.

Don't make judgement because of a few bad apples that have posted here.

There aren't a whole hell of alot of places that sell the products we want at good prices...so if you get pissed off and write off...you aren't going to be buying anything and probably will pay more to spite your face by biting your nose off.

Joe

[nighthunter]

The original email that I received from Midway claimed that a specific product was on sale and available till 4/2/06. When I tried to order it less than 24 hours later it was no longer available. I emailed them asking why. I was told that it was their fault as they hadn't expected such a demand. There was not one word in the original email that said till stock runs out or dependent on supplies. It said available till 4/2/06. I expect them to live up to their original offer. Mr. Scrounger .... If you received an advertisement from your local supermarket that advertised hotdogs as 10 for$1.00 and you put them in your cart and got to the checkout and found that they were now $3.00 wouldn't you ask why. What if the clerk told you that they had sold enough at the sale price to justify the ad? The email I got from Midway advertised a product at a specified price available till a specified date. Once again ... I expect them to live up to their original offer. Mr. Eric Ellingson tried to slip one in on me here as he is "The Contact Center Supervisor" at Midway and I had sent him an email with a link to this thread. It reminds me of a sort of cover your butt type of management chain that is becoming all too familiar in American society. What ever happened to the value of one's word? What has happened to standing up for what is right?
Mr. Ellingson ended his message here the same as he ended his emails to me. "Shoot straight". The correct phrase is "Ride fast, Shoot straight and SPEAK THE TRUTH". Honesty, Mr. Ellingson will get you further than corporate politics.
Once again ... I expect you to live up to your original offer.
Ed McIntosh (Nighthunter)

[carpetman]

The ad said until 4/02/06---That has not happened yet. Are they poor at planning what supply they have? Had the ad said "while supplies last---horse of another color. This is not the first instance of Midway not doing what they said. Mr Erickson should have been on the phone finding more to fulfill that promise vs being here trying to give a snow job. Years ago when Midway no notice quit paying shipping(ok---they weren't really paying shipping---they were charging enough to cover it)the decision to do that certainly belonged to them. But customers that had items on backorder were now charged shipping. These customers had bargained with Midway at THAT price and it was not the customers fault that Midway could not deliver. But it was the customer that was charged. Larry Potterfield the CEO of Midway made the statement along the lines--it's my company and I can do as I want. Shortly after the cheap-skate (and I say cheap skate because he charged the back-order customer vs having the backbone to live up to what he had bargained for---welched on the deal)came out with pictures that he was going on safari. I have not contributed one penny towards his safaries since he pulled the cheap trick.

[9.3X62AL]

I've done business with Midway for quite a while--both when I had my Type 01 FFL at dealer discount rates, and as a retail customer since the FFL expired in 1993. A couple guidelines in dealing with firms like Midway--

I never send an order for less tham $100, and usually the order runs closer to $200-$250. This helps amortize the shipping and handling charges to some degree. This means 6-7 orders per year, usually.

To emphasize Trooper Dan's statement--Midway carries stuff that very few local dealers want to bother with stocking. To some degree, they are a life-saver for my shooting hobby. No, the shipping charge policy change wasn't done well--I think that's as obvious to the company as it is to us. But if I boycotted every store and supplier that annoyed me with their policies or pricing regimen, I would need to recycle primers AND grow my own beef and vegetables, too. I'm glad that Midway, Graf's, and Mid-South are there and that they do what they do.

[rbstern]

Like Al, I try to build up my Midway orders to spread out the shipping costs across many items. Sometimes, items I want or need in my list are backordered and I delete them from my list and wait until next time, if I can.

Generally, my Midway experiences have been very good. The web site is a very useful resource, the customer product reviews can be helpful, and Midway customer service in terms of shipping speed, order accuracy, return policy, and response to inquiries is as good or better than any online vendor I deal with.

I like 'em.

[Shepherd2]

I get dealer pricing from Midway but their S&H charges make it hard for me to buy from them. A couple months ago I was placing an order with them over the net but balked when I saw the S&H charges. It was almost $20 on 4 or 5 small items. About a $60 order. I went to Graf's where I also get dealer pricing. I ordered the same items and the shipping was about $9.75. Why can Graf's pack and ship for half of what Midway charges?

BTW Graf's does charge shipping when you are getting dealer pricing. Even with that I've always ended up with a good savings over regular prices.

[Maineboy]

I don't have any bad experiences with Midway to report. Maybe they should state in their notices that sales are only for a certain time or as long as supplies last. I've been buying from them for several years now and will continue to do so. Like Al says, there are alot of things I can get from them that I can't buy locally. I probably order from them and Midsouth 4-5 times a year. The great thing about computer shopping is that I can get a price for the items I want plus shipping and handling from different outfits, see which one is cheaper, and then order from that source.

[rbstern]

I get dealer pricing from Midway but their S&H charges make it hard for me to buy from them. A couple months ago I was placing an order with them over the net but balked when I saw the S&H charges. It was almost $20 on 4 or 5 small items. About a $60 order. I went to Graf's where I also get dealer pricing. I ordered the same items and the shipping was about $9.75. Why can Graf's pack and ship for half of what Midway charges?

BTW Graf's does charge shipping when you are getting dealer pricing. Even with that I've always ended up with a good savings over regular prices.

Not sure why your shipping would be that much. I am probably a similar distance from their operation, and my S&H never comes to more than $12 even with a dozen or more items and lots of lead in the box.

[Lee]

Interesting thread. Widway has been nice to me for several years. Fast, courteous, and willing to accept my mistakes on occasion.

Now if ya mention SG, I can't find enough bad to say about them.

I wonder, is it possible that (we) have been victims of 2-bit phone jerks with more power than brains???

Given the opportunity to present a gripe to any ranking employee of a company, is it possible for a somewhat different outcome to be achieved??

(I say this only because I have an intense dislike, and continual problem, dealing with any company "Customer Service" personnel. Most of them are sexually disadvantaged, physically frustrated, mentally deficient bottom feeders in the shallow part of the gene pool).........................................Lee: )

[Bret4207]

Midway is the big dog in the field. I love their catalog. I don't love the shipping and in general their prices. I have seen times I could walk into Gander Mt, pick up an item off the self, pay state sales tax and still walk out for less than Midway. That being said, Midway must be doing something right to be #1. I figure it's up to the consumer to shop around. For instance, I went to Lowes looking for a replacement window. They didn't have what I needed, made no offer to custom order one, and the wrong size window would have cost around $180.00 plus tax plus all the extra work. I went to the local mom and pop lumber yard and ordered exact size windows of equal or better quality for $9.00 more than the Lowes window. IOW- if you want the best price- shop around. If you want it NOW you pay a little extra.

As to Midway, Mid South, Graf's etc catering to out little clan of casters I think we've done ok. No, none of them understand the underground group of hard core casters out there. Even Lyman turns a blind eye to an apparently lucrative market, which I feel is just plain insulting considering their history. But we do have better dies, better sizers, better lubes, more hardware available now than even 10 years ago. And the main players carry most of it. We're in the golden age of cast IMHO, but we don't realize it.

As to service and consumer relations- I don't know the guy from Midway, Eric, but maybe if he does hang out here a bit and gets the feel for the community and our wants and needs, Bwana Potterfield might hear about it and take interest. Ya never know.

[StarMetal]

I have never had a handling charger and shipping charge from Midway that got anyways near $20.

What is it you want Nighthunter....for all of us to quit Midway because you want us too because you don't like them anymore?

Joe

[Eric Ellingson]

Morning Guys!

Eric again. I do hang out at the boards a lot (ask Grumble) but I don't say much. I was a shooter long before I worked here, so surfing the net for gun stuff in my off hours is pretty normal.

Just wanted to give you guys an update. I did have a meeting with Larry this morning, and he was very interested in the sale dates. Some items we place on sale have limited availability, and some we can backorder on since the vendor can get us more. But the bottom of the eblast does say prices good until 4-2, not "while supply lasts". The item in question was a "One Time Run" so no backorders could be taken. I will keep you posted on what happens. I hope it is a modification of the wording, but it may be that we just stop offering eblast super sales on limited items. We have to decide if we make more people happy with the super sales or more people upset. Its my job to make people happy...within the framework of running a business of course.

[StarMetal]

Hell Eric....Midway could get out of the mess easier if the sale did say "while supply lasts" rather then the other way. I have to honestly say, as much as I stick up for your company, that really is a poor play on wording. I'll tell you the right thing to do, that is to give the poor fellow the item at the sale price..that way you don't lose a customer, or get bad publicity from him.

Joe

[carpetman]

Eric Ellington---If I understand you correctly,you hope the wording gets modified. After the fact now switching the deal is NOT correcting anything. Midway did not plan ahead by already stating until 4-02-06,now to modify that,would be a big red flag that this is a company that will welch on a deal----say one thing and switch to something else---does the word integrity mean anything to Midway---I don't see it being the case. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Might be Potterfield gets to kill a couple less wildebeests on his next safari,but atleast he keeps his word.

[Eric Ellingson]

The wording is confusing is all I am saying. It says both things, and that will be fixed. I am waiting on the word for the final solution to the problem.

As an aside, I am amazed by all the hostility displayed toward Larry for finally being in a position to go on Safari. I used to hang out at the little gunshop when it started, and I have seen Larry dedicate his life into this business. You guys see him on Safari now, but how about the twenty years when the family vacation was camping because he was pouring every dime back into the business? He is up here 6 or 7 days a week when he is in town. I get here at 7ish and his truck is here, and its here when I leave at 6ish or later. Believe me, when he goes on Safari he has earned it...years of sacrifice put him there. In my opinion anyway.

[StarMetal]

Eric,

This isn't about Larry....as you noticed I didn't say anything to that effect. It doesn't take much brain power to realize that the average American has hostility towards any well to do citizen....examples: Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Paul McCartney, etc. That's how I see it. They are jealous they can't do that. We, well at least me, know that alot started from a humble beginning....like Bill Gates...from his family's garage as a electronics/pc geek...now look at him. More power to these fellows for have the drive and ability to have such an accomplishment. You better believe if I had achieved that status I too would be on Safari.

Let's keep this to business and nevermind the naysayers we may have on this forum. This forum is comprised of a good number of real good folks.

The wording is definately ambiguous. Like I said in the other post saying while supply lasts is better. That's clear and to the point.

Joe

[carpetman]

Eric Ellington--You mentioned the ad says both things. If the ORIGINAL ad did say until 4-02-06 while supplies last, confusingly worded maybe,but Midway does have an out in that case. Your mention that it says BOTH was the first I heard about that part. If it was later changed or added on---shame on you. To me what got under my skin about Larry Potterfield was the attitude he displayed when their shipping charge policy was changed. He said it was his decision to make. His intention may have been he would take 100% of the flak but it came across as he can do whatever he pleases. The authority to change the policy---the right to do so was not under question---it was his to make. But the arrogant attitude was the turn off. Then the backorder deal was plain chintzy. I doubt any real damage would have been done to his wallet to have completed the deal as originally agreed,but to not was damaging to the reputation. I doubt that he even cared about that--if he did why did he do it? I dont begrudge his going on safari. I have noticed in many cases that wealthy people that were born that way have less regards for others than the ones not born wealthy but became that way on their own. I dont know nor care what his situation was,but I doubt that he walked to school barefooted so to speak. Best example of this I can think of is Jerry Jones--Dallas Cowboys owner. He bought team,replaced Tom Landry and Mr Landry learned about it on tv---not a face to face with Jones. Jerry Jones was born rich.

[rbstern]

As an aside, I am amazed by all the hostility displayed toward Larry for finally being in a position to go on Safari.

Most people, unless they experience it firsthand, have a hard time appreciating the sacrifices required to create a successful business. Long hours. Little or no take home pay to start out. Mucho lost time with family and friends. And, least understood: Lots of super-sized stress from the risk.

Anyone who resents Larry being on safari is simply showing they have no idea what it takes to make that journey from the very start.

[grumble]

Let's see now -- Eric works as a fairly high level supervisor at a company many of us use frequently and with satisfaction. So, the logical thing to do is to bring up 5+ year old complaints and make wild assumptions about Eric and his boss, Larry Potterfield.

Great plan! Maybe we can run him off with petty complaints and bickering. We sure don't need to have an inside line to Midway USA, now, do we? Let's all just be rude and insulting to Eric, that's a sure way to make sure Midway will go out of their way to help us and other shooters in the future. And by all means, let's just jump to conclusions, based on total ignorance, about Mr Potterfield. We don't need to know any facts, we can just make wild-assed assumptions, and then those assumptions will become fact.

I've dealt with Eric personally on several matters. I can attest that he is a conscientious, polite, friendly, and HONEST man that will go out of his way to solve customer problems. Making this petty ******** to be reflective of the people at Midway is about as stupid as using one person to be representitive of this entire forum.

Some folks here need to grow up or shut up.

[StarMetal]

grumble,

Do some of those folks go meow, meow, meow??

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Eric Ellingson

Hell Eric, don't quit having the sales just because a few people are unhappy. If the items sold out that fast there obviously are happy custommers. I live out here in Washington state and DO pay a lot in shipping. It was $50+ on that last order. I will buy local (keeps them in business) even if I pay a couple $s more but I will also continue to order from Midway and others for items I can't get local and for those items on sale that save considerable $s regardless of the shipping.

Any one that oders an item for less than $50 and doesn't expect to pay a reasonable shipping and handleing hasn't been in business before. I wonder how much proffit they think Midway makes on a $50 sale - enough to absorb a $10 or $15 cost of shipping and handling and still stay in business? I think not. I also think those who think the seller has the resposibility to have an endless supply of product needs to get real. I don't know of any retail business that can operate that way. Everyone should understand that "sale" means until there isn't anymore.

Those who are disgruntled over this should just consider it as a lesson learned. As I mentioned earlier, don't procrastinate. Get on the sale as soon as it is announced. Dealers get a discount or "preferential treatment"? That should surprise anyone? Well welcome to the real world! I used to get a dealer discount also when I was a dealer. 'Spose I could complain since I was a dealer for 30 years that Midway should continue to give me a discount but I doubt they will and I don't expect them to.

No Eric, please don't quit the sales as there are plenty of us that appreciate Midway passing on savings to us like that. If we don't make the cut, well there's next time. Your not going to make some people happy, they'd complain if they were hung with a new rope.

Larry Gibson

[Slowpoke]

Well said Grumble and Larry

Back in the 90's I used to spend quite a bit of coin at Midway every month, then circumstances beyond my control forced me to relocate to another state and it was a few years before I got back to casting, loading and shooting.

Then one day I believe in 2003 I placed an order at Midway and when they were figuring up my total they said I had a 40 some odd dollar credit, well that was news to me because I had totally forgot about it.

Still amazes me when I think about it. By my best recollection they carried that credit on there books for five years.

good luck

[floodgate]

Hey guys!:

Eric is here, he's talking to us, and he seems willing to listen to our legitimate concerns. So, let's keep it courteous and stick to the specific facts. It'd be nice if other reps from the big outfits would follow his lead and hang out here awhile. We might ALL benefit from the exchange.

Anyhow, Eric, here's a "thank you" from an occasional Midway customer, and a satisfied one who will be back as soon as the tax refund comes in.

I'll drop one suggestion/request into the box: Could you offer that #155-024 Frankford Arsenal Loading Stand with a taller stem (say, about 48" , floor to work-top) so it could be used standing up or sitting on a bar-height stool by a six-footer? I'd find it ideal for accomodating my four lube-sizers, and easy to stow away when not in use. PM me if/when convenient

Thanks for stopping by.

floodgate

[nighthunter]

Guys .... I did not intend for this thread to become a peeing contest about Larry or Eric. I simply feel that an advertised price for an advertised period of time should be abided by. Both seller and buyer. The prices we pay for merchandise are a direct reflection of the honesty and integrity of the merchants we deal with. I don't care how much money someone else has, has had or will have. I don't care how many hunting trips someone has taken to God knows where? I am happy that they can afford to do so. They in most cases have earned the ability to do so. I am a simple man. I am a result of my past. I have never brought up the fact that I am a disabled veteren of the Viet Nam war. I expect nothing that is not due me. I want nothing that is not due me. What the hell has become of America? What the hell has happened to being accountable? What the hell has hapened to personal respect? What the hell has become of the value of a man's word? My self respect is not for sale. Being mostly Americans here I think we all need to rethink our values.
In the past Midway has been good to me. I think I have been a good customer of Midway. If my posts are checked I did say that this is the first beef I have ever had with Midway. In all likelihood I will continue to buy from Midway. I hope Larry is off in some far away land stalking a record book bull. I hope that someday he takes Eric with him (at company expense). Listen up Larry!!!
Nighthunter

[Eric Ellingson]

Thanks!

I will pass it on...being 5-5 it never occured to me before!

[Eric Ellingson]

I just read Nighthunters last post...valid points, all the way around. He was just standing up for what he thought was bad treatment by a company. As a result of his actions, Larry did get involved and you will see a change in the way the eblasts are formatted...when something is in short supply, you will see that much more plainly in the future. And yes, we are always looking for ways to improve. If you ever have an idea or a complaint, feel free to give me a call. I am here about all the time...I mean, its not like a real job. I get to talk guns all day!!!

[floodgate]

Thanks!

I will pass it on...being 5-5 it never occured to me before!

Eric:

Thank YOU!!!

Now THAT'S SERVICE!!!

floodgate

[Poorboy]

Hi Eric--Please do not change the loading stand--love mine just as it is and think everyone should have at least one.

I love Midway, have spent a lot of money with them in last few years. Do I buy everything from them, NO I do not. I shop around, but Midway still gets 75% of my money. Yes, shipping charges add up and that's why I plan my buys. Sometime one place will be cheaper than the others, but I think you do great overall with just Midway. Never, but never had a problem with Midway.

Nighthunter, we may have ate some of the same dirt and I too am 100% disabled due to my visit to never never land, but you need to clam down. Looks like somebody made a mistake, but how can a bussiness KNOW how many boxes of this or that will sale. No flames intended, just thankful for Midway.

Poorboy

[waksupi]

More power to the guy, if he can swing a safari. Check into it, and it is cheaper than hunting Alaska. I know lots of folks who have hunted Africa, and they ain't rolling in the dough. It's one of the best hunting bargains going.

That does it. I'm pissed at Deputy Al and Co., for going to Canada to hunt last fall. How dare they! They must be filthy rich!

And you can be pissed at me, when I go gopher strafing in Alberta in a few weeks. I'm obviously very well-to-do.

[C1PNR]

I just read Nighthunters last post...valid points, all the way around. He was just standing up for what he thought was bad treatment by a company. As a result of his actions, Larry did get involved and you will see a change in the way the eblasts are formatted...when something is in short supply, you will see that much more plainly in the future. And yes, we are always looking for ways to improve. If you ever have an idea or a complaint, feel free to give me a call. I am here about all the time...I mean, its not like a real job. I get to talk guns all day!!!
OK, I'm going to share with you an incident from the past that has remained in the back of my mind whenever I'm considering a purchase from Midway.

A few years ago my wife decided I had been good that year and deserved a reward for Christmas. Even let me choose the reward. I chose a new Metal 2 Rifle Carrying Case from Midway (the order included several other items that I paid for, as I guess I wasn't all THAT good:) ).

Ordered and arrived and opened with much anticipation. Of the four locks on the case two were obviously non functioning. They appeared to be factory defective (not completed by manufacturer) as opposed to shipping damage.

Contacted Midway and was told to return, at my cost, for consideration of replacement, with my shipping costs to be refunded if, in fact, it was as I said it was. Off it went, at a cost of about $15.00, with a copy of the shipping invoice from UPS.

The gun case was replaced all right, but my shipping cost was refunded at Midway's estimated "Fair and Reasonable" shipping cost of about $7.00!!

That $7.00 or $8.00 difference certainly did not bankrupt me, but it planted a "Screw the Customer" seed of doubt in my mind as regards Midway's Business Practices. This occurred not too long after the "backorder shipping charge" issue had been mentioned by others.

Those two issues, one I was told about and found to be true and one I had personal knowledge of, convinced me that in any dealings with Midway, I should keep one hand FIRMLY on my wallet.

I still buy from Midway, but I order much less frequently than in the past, and only items in stock.

On the positive side, I am able to determine, before placing an order, if items are in stock. At that point I can decide if extra shipping costs are acceptable or not.

But not paying the actual shipping costs to return defective items is really a "bush league" business practice. I expected better from them.

Anyway, now it's off my chest and you can do anything you want with the information. And thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell someone that might care.

[cabezaverde]

I have already spoken out favorably on Midway's behalf and I stand by my words. That being said, oh how I wish Cabelas sold a full line of reloading supplies and equipment. Cabelas has customer service nailed in my book.

[Eric Ellingson]

Sorry to hear about that. If you will call me at 1-800-243-3220 I will credit your account. My returns person didn't follow our procedure, which is to refund the actual shipping on a return that was deffective. I will be able to tell who processed your return, so that will be a good coaching opportunity...I can make sure it does not happen again.

Thanks for taking the time to notify about this...if I don't know about a problem I can't fix it.

[carpetman]

Eric Ellington---Despite my very obvious negative attitude about Midway, thank you that in this one instance you are making it right. This is not the only board I have been on where Midway has came under fire. Two companies that almost never have anything bad said about them are Leupold and RCBS. And they get the opposite said plenty often. I'm sure they pay a terrific price to create that. I don't know if the added business they get from it offsets it or not. Not to back down from anything I previously said,but once again thank you.

[versifier]

Maybe we need a new category for threads: Let's Piss And Moan At Midway :mrgreen:

I have had many positive experiences with Midway over the years, the negative ones have been recent occurrences. I'm not going to get into line and hang out my dirty laundry now, but there have been other threads on Midway in the last four months where I did that you can check out if the spirit moves you. Eric, it takes a lot of balls to stand up and take the heat, I commend you for it and hope you are getting paid to do it - I wouldn't want to stand behind the manure spreader out of the goodness of my heart. I have found Midway's Customer Service to be less than impressive, but I took care to phrase my last email very politely - maybe the rep just thought it was fan mail and didn't read past the first sentence. ;) My point being that even the simple courtesy of a form reply stating that it had been received would have been better than being completely ignored when politely presenting a legitimate issue. I may have had better results with a phone call, or with an actual real hold it in your hand letter sent via USPS, but this is the 21st century and an email should have been enough. Midway certainly sends me enough email every month with the reasonable expectation that I might even read some of it. The old saying that "the customer is always right" merely expresses the awareness of the reality that one ill served and pissed off customer will end up costing you more by all the potential business he will steer away from you with the negative publicity he will generate by word of mouth and now electronically. It's cheaper in the long run to eat a little bit now and then - Leopold, Dillon, and RCBS didn't earn their reputations by focusing only on today's bottom line. Instead they look upon each opportunity to make a positive impression as an investment in their company's future by fostering customer loyalty. You can see this in the present situation by noticing that even though many of us feel that we have been burned by Midway, most of us are still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'll put my violin away. :violin:

[nighthunter]

Why is it necessary to know exactly which employee made the " mistake "? To me that is the same as having a " fall guy ". The company I work for is the same way. Rather than say " yes we have a problem, let's fix it " management first has to decide who's fault it is. By the time the decision is reached, downtime has amounted and management is even angrier than when the " mistake " was made. I'm tired of finger pointing.
Nighthunter

[RugerFan]

I think rather than it being a "fall guy" issue, it's a matter of making sure the offending individual doesn't make the same mistake again. Makes sense to me. I've shopped at Midway for years and haven't had a problem and hopefully never will. I've been very satisfied with their service.

[shooter2]

I tried to order a magazine (918412) from todays flier and it is not in stock. Typical Midway problem. Because of their persistent inventory control problems, they want to soak me for additional shipping on backordered items. Their shipping charges are high to the extreme (+$10 for one magazine) to begin with. Damned if I am going to play their game. There has to be a better alternative. Their customer service is as crappy as their ability to deliver...

[C1PNR]

Not to pick at a semi-healed scab, but I just had a PM from Eric at Midway. I had earlier PMed him with the particulars (dates, invoice numbers, RMA#, etc.) of my "Fair and Honest Shipping" refund that wasn't.

He apparently looked into the incident and told me he has taken care of it by issuing a credit on my account at Midway.

This truly does make a difference to me. Not the money so much as the willingness of someone to actually take a valid complaint and make it right.:-D

I applaud both Eric and Midway and wanted you folks to know the outcome.

Thanks again, Eric!

[keeper89]

Just goes to show you that when a certain size in a corporation is reached there are bound to arise certain situations that rub people the wrong way. I am not standing up FOR Midway or AGAINST anyone who has had to deal with aggravation........I am only saying that with a giant outfit there are bound to be some problems......some people coming to work and not really giving a f!@#% about WHATEVER a particular customer is bugged by.....I do want to give Eric my respect for coming on here and taking the heat and doing his level best to rectify problems---accepting responsibility and acting appropriately are the hallmarks of a MAN--whether he stands 5-5 or 6-6......Hope I don't get hurt when I climb down off this damn soapbox.........[smilie=w:

[Lee]

And for my part in this soapbox;

"Thanks for taking the time to notify about this...if I don't know about a problem I can't fix it. "

Truer words are not spoken. All the pissing and moaning in the world can not fix something if the salesman does not know about it. Midway would do well to "coach" all their people to relinquish the telephone to their superior when requested. I've no gripes with them, if I ever have, I'll want to talk to "da boss" now, not the sales rep.

Those of you who know my love of another company out there will know my disregard for them stems from not being able to contact anyone within that rathole company to register a complaint, other than a snot-nose telephone sales rep. They lost my business and that of everyone who I can talk to also.
In case yer wondering. Ordered 500 rds of .223 ammo. Good price. Arrived with a "heavy/bulky" sticker on it and another $30.00 on the invoice. (500 rounds of .223 is heavy/bulky?? at +$30.00 over the regular handling/shipping charge??) Turned a good deal into a flat-out ripoff. Never got past a telephone person, never got a reply to any emails to the "Big Dog" Won't buy from them again if they paid me to do it. I'll name the company if pushed, but for now their initials are "SG"......................................Lee:)

[7br]

Years back, I took some training that had some customer loyalty research. A customer who had a problem and it wasn't handled to their satisfaction was the least loyal customer. The customer who never had a problem was middle of the road. A customer who had a problem and had it taken care of in a satisfactory manner was the most loyal. Go figure.

[j4570]

I've had one or two incidents with Midway over the years, and it was resolved completely with only minor annoyance (to me, it should have never occured, but alas, things happen).

For the record, I have had something go wrong with:

Natchez
Brownells
SG
Dillon
Numrich
Sarco

Now, shockingly to most, here is my customer service rank:

1) Brownells
2) Midway
3) Sarco
4) Natchez
5) Numrich
6) Dillon
7) SG

[j4570]

I've had one or two incidents with Midway over the years, and it was resolved completely with only minor annoyance (to me, it should have never occured, but alas, things happen).

For the record, I have had something go wrong with:

Natchez
Brownells
SG
Dillon
Numrich
Sarco

Now, shockingly to most, here is my customer service rank:

1) Brownells
2) Midway
3) Sarco
4) Natchez
5) Numrich
6) Dillon
7) SG

Why do you ask that order? The first 5 I recovered all my money, but my aggrevation to do so varied. Not any real difference in Brownells or Midway except I thought the person at Brownells was nicer (subjective I guess, maybe a tie). Sarco fixed my problem, but took a little longer, and took getting the right person, same for Natchez (maybe they should be tied too). Numrich, originally the reply was nasty, but once I called the CC company and they weren't getting their money, they fixed it. Dillon, this may seem odd or minor, but they sold me a powder thru expander for a 475 and the guy never inquired if I needed the special "large powder thru expander die" and they refused to ship without cost the additional part I needed (I would pay for the part, not the shipping), though I called their customer service and asked what I needed. Also, Dillon refuses to replace decapping pins under their "no BS" warranty, which should be labeled "only minor BS" to me. I paid over double what a competitors die cost to eliminate the problem with heavily crimped mil primers, and it got worse and they charge a mint for their decapping pins compared to competitors. I swore I sent an email to Mike Dillon and never got a response, probably 5 years ago now. SG was the worst, Didn't ship due to restrictions, then when they did ship, charged shipping as entire new order, refused to settle the difference, CC company wouldn't help as company delivered the item according to "their policy". They haven't received more than about $50 in the last 3-4 years based on that one incident. The story goes into a long time on the phone, rude supervisors, etc. Just not professional at all.

[alamogunr]

I guess I'm getting too old. I can't even remember names when I'm given hints.

Who is SG??

John

[fatnhappy]

SG stands for sportsman gouging.


I refuse to do business with them anymore. The charged their "club" fees to my credit card without my approval.

Otherwise I guess I've been fortunate, I haven't had any problem with mail order companies. Matter of fact, I've come out ahead a couple times. Bass Pro inadvertantly sent me 2, that's right, 2 Lowrance sonar units and sundry accessories out of the blue.

[Lee]

Sportsmans Guide. The owner "G.O" also known as the "Greedy One".

Insolent, rude, uncooperative, arrogant salespeople, unless of course you dance to their tune and throw money at them. I suppose their owner wants to go on Safari also, and doesn't care who and how he screws to do it. I can only wish that a Cape Buffalo takes a fancy to him, in the Biblical sense, of course.
As for myself, if they was dying of starvation on the worlds largest desert, I wouldn't bring down my worst case of flatulence on a flat rock to deposit a fleck of sustenance to permit them to reach safety from the suns burning rays.
(Probably get kicked off the site, but boy do I feel better..........Lee:-D :-D )


It's all about treating someone the way you would want to be treated. The (successful) companies recognize that, and strive towards it. The others get recognized for what they are........................lee:)

[straightshooter1]

I did my rant on here about Sportsman's Guide a couple or three months ago. I only lost $11.50 as I recall, but I trash every catalog I receive and refuse to deal with them not because of the $11.50, but because they jerked me around.

Midway gets a lot less of my money than when they had the free shipping. I used to always buy from them, now I shop it around and can often get it cheaper at another place. I can't say they have ever treated me badly, sometimes they have a slightly rude "order taker" but that is sometimes true most everywhere.

I am surprised at the poster who had problems with Dillon. I have really spent the bucks there over the years and they really have treated me with respect, never talked down to me and always took time to work with me on any problem.

I do recall 4 or 5 years ago, maybe longer, they expanded, I think, and once in a while I would get someone who had to transfer me to someone else on a technical problem, but that's all. Great folks, great presses.

Bob

[Eric Ellingson]

Thanks for your understanding, fellas. We really are all on the same team.

[Buckshot]

...............Wow! Someone from Midway here. We must have hit the bigtime :-). Well a big welcome aboard Eric. HAs anyone yet asked what kind of shooting you like to do?

I remember the first big blowup about Midway I recall seeing all over was their desicion to start charging for shipping, and how so many felt that was wrong. Now OVER charging for shipping as another source of profit may be wrong in one sense, doing so just jeopardizes the customer base, and isn't wise. Smart businesses know that.

On the other hand loosing major capitol isn't smart either. I do recall a couple times I was amazed when I got and order in 3 parcels over 3 days when Midway didn't charge for shipping, and I wondered how they did that. I guess Midway finally realized that the shipping was eating up a large part of the income. What surprised me was that everyone else charged for shipping and didn't get crap, but apparently Midway wasn't allowed to?

When I was new to E-Bay I learned REAL fast to read the shipping charges info. I do a bit of machining to earn some extra money, and I'm so sensitive to shipping I almost always loose money rather then charge a bit more. Sometimes it's a tad irksome, but I don't want to appear to be profiting on shipping.

Heck I've had minor irritating problems with a couple outfits, but if they were reoccuring that became a different issue. Taken overall, my total dealings with Midway, Graf, Gun Parts, Dixie, Century, MSC, ENCO, and a couple others would average out to a well above average satisfaction level. No company in business can afford to knowingly piss off customers.

The only outfit that can is governmental, and for sure they ain't there to serve. They're there to mark time till they can retire. However, when a company gets large and it's no longer mom and pop, things can get a bit out of hand once in awile. People being people will come to work in a foul mood and a customer who is calling in whinning may just get the result. Not right, but as Chief Darrel Gates said after the Rodney King thing, "We have to recruit from the human race, and do our best to weed out the unfit".

Having worked in the retail business as a grocery clerk for a major chain and then as an assistant manager for K Mart from 75 to 78 the public can be a difficult lot, believe you me. Most retailers believe the customer is always right. I don't remember the exact figure but K Mart figured their average customer spend a couple thousand a year in their local store, so don't quibble over a couple bucks.

My favorite was the guy and the lawnmower. One of my areas of responsibility was the garden shop. Lawnmowers are shipped without oil as that changes their freight classification. The manufacturer puts a big ole tag under the gas cap stating boldy that oil has to be added. It's NOT a tag you can miss. You guessed it. This idiot brings his new mower back all huffy about how it stopped halfway through his yard and he couldn't get it to re-start.

Well of course he can't as it's siezed up solid. K Mart sold these promo mowers at a loss expecting people to buy a catcher, some oil and maybe a gas can and then some other shopping. What we did was to give the guy a new lawnmower and apologized because he had a problem. I just about puked but that was policy. The gardenshop manager wanted to do the guy physical harm. We even had proffessional returnees who'd bring back stuff they'd worn out or obviously broke. You smiled and refunded their money or gave'em a new one. Yup, the public is a pure joy to work with, lemme tell ya.

So Potterfield built his company up and has brought the kids in, just like Richard Lee did and Brownells to name a couple I know of. I suppose so did Graf and Son. HA! One little problem I had with Graf was them shipping an incorrect item and it was Bob Graf who took my phone order! When I called back about what to do I mentioned it was Bob who took the order. The customer service guy laughed and said it was really hard to get good help.

....................Buckshot

[Eric Ellingson]

I haunt a lot of boards but don't post much! As for shooting, well, that was one of the big reasons I came to work here in the first place. In my last job, they played golf...we shoot Sporting Clays every Thursday here!!! Much more to my liking! I also like handguns, varmint rifles, long range shooting...you name it. I shoot with the local police department here, and they have fun class three toys...too poor for that, but it sure is fun! Cars, guns and motorcycles...the trifecta of bad habits, as my girlfriend is quick to point out.

[Gunload Master]

Thanks for joining up with us to consult with the questions about Midway Eric. Welcome to Cast Boolits and Gun Loads.

[StarMetal]

Eric,

Add girls to that list...then it becomes quadfecta...and your girlfriend is part of the problem [smilie=l:

Joe

[Gunload Master]

Well, my first thoughts of Midway were pretty poor just looking at the shipping estimate, BUT... I just placed a $50 order with them and I feel like I got a good deal. Got a box of Federal 180 grain shells (I like trying new things) for $19.00 and a 32 round 9mm clip for my ruger for $21.00 plus about 10 bucks shipping. I think it's a fairly good buy on both items and look forward to them coming in.

[Lee]

If your luck is like mine, you will find that their service is way beyond prompt. I'm in Northern Ohio, and have had a couple orders delivered within 2 days. And I ain't talkin' UPS next day air, either. I'm talking good ole US SnailMail type deliveries. Also, with Midway, be patient. Almost anything ya see in their catalogs WILL go on sale within the year. If you can afford to wait, the price is even better.
So far them guys are on my "A" list..................................Lee:)

[swampmaster]

I usally but off of Midway and usally do it when stuff is on sale that i need then add the extras that I have to keep on hand to make the shipping worth it.I have had no problems but am dishearted when i see a really good bullet buy price and am ready to order several thousand only to find out they already sold out before I got my flyer.Oh well thats life you wn some you loose some.But i still shop them and am glad to see Eric on the board if we have real problems

[mooman76]

If you get on their email list you get to see the sales before the flier comes!

[waksupi]

Let me tell you about my latest Midway experience. I ordered a vise, on February 7. About a month later, I contacted them, and asked where it was. I was given a new delivery date it was supposed to arrive from thier supplier, on 3/20. Next date given was 4/13. Last message was, they had no confidence in the projected delivery date. So, I ordered one from another company, and cancelled the order from Midway. If you ain't got it, don't advertise it!

[Lee]

Waksupi, that is surprising. But I guess even a good company blows it once in a while. Hopefully your experience with them, that is not the norm. Can not agree more though, "If ya ain't got it don't advertise it". Must have been a heck of a deal, I've had a couple items from them when I went to order it was sold out. Haven't been jerked around like that, and I agree it can leave a bad taste in yer mouth.

It's off topic, it has nothing to do with firearms, but iffn' ya ever REALLY want to get jerked around, just do some business with "ecost.com" All of them people are the slow learners from the federal witness protection program. They don't even kiss ya before they screw ya.........................................Lee:)