What lathe should I be looking at??

[barrabruce]

O.k. try and get a few specs down for a lathe to fit in my small garage.

What size be a good alrounder???
Maybe a bit of barrell work but not speciffically.
The odd mould and do dads.
A big spindle hole big enough to ram a barrell actin in seems to be hard to find these days!!!! At least 1 1/2 on small lathes anyways!!!

Power would have to be single phase!!!

Have used someone elses "Herco"about 3 ft bed and 10" throw.
It looks good enough but I think it has roller bearings and don't like anything like a decent cut. To make it work I had to use a tool which cuts more or less straight long the work piece!! Hmmm any hard stuff it didn't like at all. But managed to cut a few nice looking threads on it and do the things I needed to do.

Are those mill drill lathe thingo's any good or just a kids toy???

Now if I could find a lathe like a horizontal borer with an height feed on the rotating head and a rotating feed on the flat base of the saddle with T slots etc etc one would be well covered...especially with a quick change box for thread cutting!!!!
"ships lathe" I think Iv'e heard mentioned once but could be called anything.
Never seen one besides a few 'old drawing type pitures and a rare mention so I suppose they would be rare as rocking horse teeth.


Back to reality!!!

These small chinese lathes..well I think they are!!! woth anything more than balast??? Iv'e seen a few with the specs say "taper bearings" but if they aren't set up right for a start then they'd be good as useless anyways.
If I can find one with T slots in the saddle and mount a L plate on it I could nearlly do a half decent milling.

Whats the majority of people here use!!!



Barra

[MtGun44]

The very first question is how many Benjamin Franklins you want to trade for the
machine. After that, it gets a lot easier to decide where to go from there.

I have a 56" Sheldon with 5 C collets that I like a lot, and an old 11" South Bend that
is for sale if you live close to KC.

Bill

[barrabruce]

Errr definately have a limited financial budget.

Not into NC nor need things like digtal read out.
Wern't around when I done my trade..well they were but no one had one.

[JDFuchs]

Ive run across this place http://www.machinetoolonline.com/index.html selling mills and lathes for half as much as I can find well used ones near me. I have yet to get the used mill i bought a few months ago out of storage. Eventuly I need a lathe of my own. If you do go with theys guys do keep me informed as to how it works out! good luck.

[MtGun44]

So I guess the $2800 Chinese models are out. How much do you have in mind?

$500 or $1500. You can buy at both prices and in between.

OOPS! I just noticed where you live. Kinda makes the prices in the midwest USA pretty
irrelevant.

Bill

[Trifocals]

One of the local gun shops that employs (3) gunsmiths recently purchased the smaller Grizzly gunsmith's lathe. It looks like a sweet machine and they are very happy with it. Were I looking for a lathe myself I would certainly consider the Grizzly. Most times it is better to purchase new rather than used, unless you know a used machine well. Many used machines have had a hard life and by the time you fix "issues" on a used machine you have spent as much as a new machine would cost and you still have a used machine. Just my two bits worth.

[303Guy]

Many used machines have had a hard life and ...That's the reason I went for a new 'cheap Chinese' bench-top model with a 38mm bore. it's not so cheap when one considers the limitations but I've seen too many folks using sand-paper on a lathe (and seen the damage done) to consider 'used'. Lack of digital read-out is a definate disadvantage but can be added later. I saw a few reasonable looking used lathes but they did not have metric thread capability. My Cinese lathe has the feature of being able to go from longitudinal feed directly into cross feed by just 'disengaging' the feed! That happened once - the very first time I used it but I was lucky in that only the tool broke (the work-piece was ruined too). I removed the 'select' lever (which also happens to be right above the hand wheel) and now only use power feed via the 'forward-neutral-reverse' select and use the 'engage' stub to select 'long-travel' or 'cross-travel'. The main drawback is the slow max spindle speed - 1600 RPM (that will get modified!) But it is usable.

[barrabruce]

The grizzley looks a lot like the Sheraton lathes once used in Tech College
Got some nice features!! Roller steadies...drool...
Got a link to the chinee lathe 303guy???
Not that I hate them...I used one for a year or two and it was a nice centre lathe... control handle with a quick turn pulse button in the middle.Forward to reverse in no time flat!!!
Others hated it but I got in tune with it and loved it.

Barra

Barra

[John Taylor]

I have three lathes and they all get used. The last lathe I bought was a Birmingham 14X40 gear head. Grizzly didn't have their gun smith lathe yet. A good starter lathe for a gunsmith would be this one http://grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G . This one would be the one I would get if I were looking at another new one, http://grizzly.com/products/16-x-40-3-Phase-Gunsmith-Metal-Lathe/G0509G I have to make a living at it.

[HWooldridge]

I prefer older American or English lathes and would go out of my way to find one. There are enough auctions still going on that you can find good ones that have not been trashed.

I have a Clausing Colchester 15x42 and a 10x36 Sheldon. Both are well-made, solid lathes that I've had for over 20 years and which will likely be running long after I'm gone. People always seem to want a South Bend or a Monarch but Hardinge still makes excellent lathes and of course, there is LeBlond, American Pacemaker and a host of others. Haas also makes a good toolroom lathe if that trips your trigger.

[MtGun44]

A friend bought a Hardinge. WOW !!!

What a Cadillac lathe. He even lets me use it occasionally.

Bill

[303Guy]

Got a link to the chinee lathe 303guy???https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz

[HWooldridge]

FWIW, I have the original certification card that came with my Clausing. It's the test chart that was attached to the lathe when it left the factory on April 19, 1963. Unfortunately, I was only 4 years old then and didn't lay hands on it until many years later - it's not quite that tight nowadays but still plenty accurate for my purposes. The roundness measurement on an 8-1/2" turned test piece was certified at .00004" - yes, that is 40 millionths and this was not considered a tool room lathe. The variation on a 12" long cylinder turned between centers was .0004 - this test was and still is a common method to check accuracy on a lathe.

I don't have a foreign lathe so can't offer an opinion to their fit, form and function but machine tools built in the "West" from approximately WW2 until the late 1960's were probably some of the best iron ever made and are still worth shopping for, IMHO.

[bearcove]

I was about to buy a Grizz gunsmith lathe. Found a guy who was selling tools that the school district was getting rid of. Got a Clausing Colchester 13x40 for less than the china made. I'm happy!

[3006guns]

If you want to unleash a hornet's nest of replies, go on the Practical Machinist website, register then ask your question. There is a gunsmith's section on there. I have three lathes...one 1880's antique(accurate but slow), one 1920's Hendey (rebuilding) and a 13 x 40 Chinese import from Enco.

I love my older lathes and will do anything to keep them up and running, but until they're reground ($$$) I needed something new. The Enco machine was ready right out of the box and ACCURATE. At first I thought I got a lemon until I realized it was MY setup at fault. Changed things and it's DNO ("dead nuts on"..technical term) I found fault with a couple of control handles being loose...loktite fixed that. I thought that it wouldn't thread until I discovered a setscrew that came loose in shipping. Fixed that. Mine weighs 1300 lbs...about 2/3 the weight of a comparable American machine of 50 years ago.

It has an 1 5/8" headstock bore for barrel work, came with steady and follower rests, two chucks, wrenches and a faceplate for 2300.00 SHIPPED.

I will always believe in "buy American" but there just aren't any American machines out there in really good shape at a price that's affordable. These lathes work well enough to get you going seriously and allow you to keep looking for an upgrade if you wish.

Oh, by the way stay away from those lathe/mill combos...very poorly thought of by most machinists. They're a compromise (an old idea) that never seems to work out in practice.

[Jumptrap]

If you want to unleash a hornet's nest of replies, go on the Practical Machinist website, register then ask your question. There is a gunsmith's section on there. I have three lathes...one 1880's antique(accurate but slow), one 1920's Hendey (rebuilding) and a 13 x 40 Chinese import from Enco.

I love my older lathes and will do anything to keep them up and running, but until they're reground ($$$) I needed something new. The Enco machine was ready right out of the box and ACCURATE. At first I thought I got a lemon until I realized it was MY setup at fault. Changed things and it's DNO ("dead nuts on"..technical term) I found fault with a couple of control handles being loose...loktite fixed that. I thought that it wouldn't thread until I discovered a setscrew that came loose in shipping. Fixed that. Mine weighs 1300 lbs...about 2/3 the weight of a comparable American machine of 50 years ago.

It has an 1 5/8" headstock bore for barrel work, came with steady and follower rests, two chucks, wrenches and a faceplate for 2300.00 SHIPPED.

I will always believe in "buy American" but there just aren't any American machines out there in really good shape at a price that's affordable. These lathes work well enough to get you going seriously and allow you to keep looking for an upgrade if you wish.

Oh, by the way stay away from those lathe/mill combos...very poorly thought of by most machinists. They're a compromise (an old idea) that never seems to work out in practice.

Well......for those fortunate enough to have deep pockets and luckier still, to find a used American lathe that isn't actually used up....it's easy to laud the virtues of heavy iron.

Hell, all of us would love to own a fine LeBlond, American Pacemaker or Cincinnati Hydroshift. But those machines have been around a long time, most were used in production shops and had the innards ran out of them. Sadly, by time the original owners let them go......the good was already gone. Sometimes you can luck onto a nice old US built lathe, but not often. And when you do find them, they ask an arm and leg for them.

Most of us have a lathe for a toy more than anything else and one of the Taiwan built machines will do fine such work. After looking for a couple years, I finally blundered onto a used DaShin 13x40 lathe and for my uses, it serves me well. It has a 3 horse, 3 phase motor and a phase converter.....so I might be getting 1.5-2 hp delivered and I have yet to see any loss in performance.

I don't know what it weighs....maybe 1500 pounds, but had it been any heavier, I don't know how I would have moved it.

Those new Grizzly gunsmith's lathes ought to be great.

[barrabruce]

I don't intend to take on gunsmithing as such but it has always allured me...
Well o.k. maybe do a barrell job one day but not full on stuff.
More of a toy in the shed to play with and knock something up when needed.
Its just the size I can get away that worries me some.
If I go too small I think I'll be in the hercus 3 " world of 2 thou cuts and a 1/2 inch spindle bore!!
Think I'll check out that Practical machinist website and see what they get up to :) :)
Thanks
Lets you's know how I'm going on soon for an opinion on a maybe lathe choice.

Barra

[machinisttx]

There seems to be something of a misconception regarding lathes and "used up", but I may be biased on the subject. For instance, I have a well used, but also reasonably well maintained 1952 south bend Heavy 10. I'm fairly certain that after being properly leveled and set up, it would still be entirely accurate to .001" if not .0005".

It takes a LOT of use to create problems with a lathe, and IMO, most "problems" are really the combination of inexperience and/or incorrect adjustments. Heavily worn ways will cause problems, as will gibs that aren't adjusted to snug up the compound/cross slide/carriage. Improper leveling torques the bed and causes misalignment between the axis of the headstock and the ways. There's a ton more....

IMO, look for something with at least a 1.25" spindle bore and BELT drive rather than gear head. Belt drive allows for slippage before anything important breaks...gear heads do not.

[Willbird]

There seems to be something of a misconception regarding lathes and "used up", but I may be biased on the subject. For instance, I have a well used, but also reasonably well maintained 1952 south bend Heavy 10. I'm fairly certain that after being properly leveled and set up, it would still be entirely accurate to .001" if not .0005".

It takes a LOT of use to create problems with a lathe, and IMO, most "problems" are really the combination of inexperience and/or incorrect adjustments. Heavily worn ways will cause problems, as will gibs that aren't adjusted to snug up the compound/cross slide/carriage. Improper leveling torques the bed and causes misalignment between the axis of the headstock and the ways. There's a ton more....

IMO, look for something with at least a 1.25" spindle bore and BELT drive rather than gear head. Belt drive allows for slippage before anything important breaks...gear heads do not.

One problem with some VERY nice older lathes is that you simply cannot get at any price new headstock bearings for them. So unless you can run the machine you have no idea if somebody brinelled the headstock bearings. I have encountered more than 1 decent looking old iron lathe in my machinist career where the spindle bearings were trashed, those machines are boat anchors, completely useless and you could not fix them if you wanted to (no bearings avail)

The even older plain bearings lathes can be rebabitted to like new condition.

Bill

[uscra112]

Plain bearing headstocks - oh, yes. Many years ago I swapped out an ancient belt-drive Pratt & Whitney for a Monarch 10EE. Regretted it almost immediately. The Monarch would NEVER give me the surface finishes that the old Pratt would do. Plain bearings damp out vibration far better than rolling bearings can ever do. The only reason that rolling bearings came to dominate was speed - (as in RPM). For gun work, you don't need speed. You DO want good surface finishes.

[PatMarlin]

I've found used iron is being dumped on the market for pennies.

I bought a Hardinge HC chucker in excellent condition for $500. Coolant system- 5C, and electric power feed, that you can set and walk away from. Stops itself. Put $175 into with and 3 days labor, and it runs like a new machine. It will put a mirror on steel if you want it to.

As if that wasn't a deal enough-

I just bought a Hardinge CHNC that had a $20,000 FAGOR control with new computer and spindle drive motors retrofit 5 years ago for $2,000 . THAT'S a FULL CNC automation, air collet, full enclosure, coolant system, CNC Hardinge for 2 grand ..!! The machine only cut brass it's hole life and no visible wear on the ways. 8025G Fagor computer controll doesn't even have a scratch on the keys.

Point is is I've seen deals on every kind of lathe you can think of, - good american iron. In the California Bay area everything is dead. That's where I picked up the CNC and I've seen engine lathes down there that would make your jaw drop for less than a grand.

The Hardinges are perfect for me with a small shop, and my small parts.