New Krag

[Grapeshot]

Greetings! I've got this Krag Carbine I picked up at a gun show a couple of years ago. It appears to be a shortened rifle and I have been told that it might be part of the lot that had been sold through the NRA back in the twenties.

The bore looks good, but I haven't sluged it yet I bought and fired a box of Remington Factory 180 grain soft points through it with mixed results.

I also tried some 200 grain Laser Cast gas checked .309 diameter bullets using the loading data from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. I wasn't impressed with the results.

I was thinking of using some IMR3031 powder and these bullets but haven't found a load for them. One sage shooter reccomended a 35 grain charge of IMR 3031 to get the velocity up to stabilize thes long bullets.[smilie=b:

Any other sugestions?:cbpour:

[docone31]

You also might try 4895, or 4064. Those work well for me in my cast loads with my .308, and .303 British.

[oldhickory]

The U.S. Rifle M1892-1898 are some of the most accurate military rifles ever devised, and easy to load for. Yes, IMR4895, 4064, and Hodgdon Varget should get you the accuracy you're looking for with just about any .30 boolit you choose.

[Trifocals]

I have a shortened .40-40 Krag that I haven't fired in years. As I recall, the last time I shot it the load was 18 or 19 grains of IMR 4759 behind heat treated Lyman 311299 bullets. I cannot remember the primer or bullet size. The lube was Lee liguid Alox. What I do vividly remember was the group. 2 1/4 inches ....at 200 yds! :smile:

[RayinNH]

Grapeshot, try a larger boolit. My two Krags require a .311 boolit. Keep trying, I haven't seen a Krag yet that wasn't an outstanding shooter with the correct load, assuming the barrel wasn't a sewer pipe...Ray

[woody1]

+1 for the larger boolit and keep trying larger until they won't chamber. Was it me, and I've used 'em, I'd lay off the lazer cast until I found out my bore size. They're too hard and won't obdurate. You did clean all the jacket fouling from the bore after you shot the factory loads correct? I mean ALL of it. I don't believe I'd go with the 35 gr. 3031 load as yet. You don't say what loads you used or what powder you have. Do a search here and you'll find lots of good data. Regards, Woody

[JCherry]

Grapeshot,

I agree with Ray, a .311 diameter bullet would be good to try. You should slug your bore and throat. Get a gas checked bullet of 200 to 220 grains sized to just under the size of the throat.

Clean your bore well, use a copper removing solution until it no longer comes out blue. You may want to alternate cleaning with a powder solvent. You may have a century of fouling to get rid of.

IMR3031 will work, though the load you indicated is a little warm with a 200 grain lead bullet. My Hodgdon (1986) and Sierra loading books have listings for 200 grain j-bullets with IMR3031 ranging from a low of 31.5 grains for 1800 fps to a high of 36.3 grains for 2100 fps.

I would suggest starting low around 1800 fps.

In my uncut rifle I love a slow powder like 4831 under a 220 grain lead bullet.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[GBertolet]

I have a 1899 Krag carbine with a sporter stock. Mine likes 18 gr 4759 with the lyman 311284 or the 311291 bullets. My rifle likes the bullets large also, at least 311 dia. The 311284 drops at 313 dia and I shoot it as cast. It chambers easily. Mine came with an aftermarket aperture sight mounted on the rear of the bolt. Both bullets with this powder charge give 1525-1575 fps and will shoot with the irons and my aging eyes about 2 inches at 100 yards. The heavier 311284 shoots about 3 inches higher than the lighter 311291. I don't use the gun for hunting so the lower velocity is not a problem. Get yourself a Lee 303 british collet sizer which is set up for 311 to 312 diameter bullets.. You can use it to neck size your brass without lubing, as Lee does not make a 30-40 collet die. Depending on what diameter cast bullet you use, you may have to turn the mandrel down a thousandth or so, by chucking the mandrel in a drill press and using emery cloth to reduce it's diameter a tad. The case life is almost infinite using this die. If you keep the pressures moderate you can even use large pistol primers in place of the large rifle if you choose. They all go bang and I cannot tell any difference in accuracy.

[Shiloh]

My guess, for what is worth is that a .309 sized boolit is too small.
My NRA Carbine slugs at .310, and I size boolits at .312. I have fine accuracy with a 314299 over 17.5 grains os 4759 clone. Around 1550+ fps.

Shiloh

[Bret4207]

The guys have given you good advice. The boolit is almost certainly too small. Clean it, get a larger diameter boolit and go for a load giving something in the 1500 fps range.

[Char-Gar]

Stop right now and;

1. Clean that bore from metal and powder fouling. Many, if not most Krags barrels are loaded with crud from generations past. You will find no cast bullet joy until you do.

2. Slug that bore. Krag barrels are all over the place in diamters from .308 to .316. Only the last few left Springfield .308. .3095 is more common and I have one that is .312. You can go as high as .313 without making the case too tight in the chamber. If you have to go larger than .313, most likely you will need to neck turn your cases.

Krags also have a long throat designed for a 220 grain bullet and are often well worn to boot. A harder than normal bullet will help the boolit better survive the jump from case to rifling, if you don't choose a long/heavy bullet. 311284 was designed in 1905 for the krag and is a crackjack bullet for the rifle.

Krags are wonderful rifles, but won't be nice to you if you don't pay attention to 1 and 2 above.

16 to 18 grains of 4227,4795 or 2400 will give you good accuracy in the 1.4 to 1.6 K fps range. If you want to go higher use a powder like 3031 or 4895 or similar medium burning powders. These old rifles use the same single heatreated steel as the infamous low number 03 Springfiels and you want to avoid the sudden jolt of fast powders at anything like full snort pressures.

[Rodfac]

I've had good luck with 311291 GC, sized 310" and sent along it's way with 16 -18 gr of 4759. My Carbine and the infantry Rifle are of 1899 and 1900 vintage, respectively. Regards, Rodfac

[georgewxxx]

I agree with the heavy long boolit advise. My hunting load for the last 5 years is 42 gr. 4831SC under a 311290. That's cast out of wheel weights and with lube and gas check it's 220gr. ...Geo

[KCSO]

All good advise and your Krag will shoot if fed right. Try a Lee 165 sp bullet sized 311 and backed by 12 grains of Red dot with a LP primer. This load is an under 2" load in my rifles.

Here is my lartest Krag Sporter. This is a 24" Springfield barrel with a 308 bore fitted to a Krag action. The stock is Boyd's and the bolt is lapped in. The action has the additional screw installed on the front and The bolt was flattened and checkered. The action is drilled and tapped for a side mount and I have the mount rings and a Weaver 2.5 to fit on yet.

[StarMetal]

Well I say yes and no to all the advice here. First let me say if you open the loading gate on my Krag and pour in powder, primers, brass, and bullets......it shoots great groups. It will shoot those groups with T, U, V, X, W, Y, and Z powders....in other words I haven't found a powder it doesn't like. Now...let me clarify somewhat. First off my bullets fit the barrel. My groove diameter is .3095. The two bullets I use the most are both Lymans..the 311284 and the 314299. I shoot them sized at .313. When I got my first 7mm-08 Layne Simpson of Shooting Times (who loves that caliber) said H414 was the powder for it. Not for my Sako....IMR 4064 is for my rifle. So being I had no use for the H414 I poured it down my Krag powder disposal. My goodness, it loved it.

Let me tell you a story about my Krag. At the time I was living in Claremore, Ok. My best friend worked with me at the Sunoco oil refinery. He has a Rem Model 700 in 30-06 that shoots better then it shoot with jacketed. He knew my Krag shot pretty good. One day he came to work and suggested a challenge which was shooting at a refrigerator cardbox carton at 1000 yards. We both shot on the John Zink Ranch shooting range which by the way was a fantastic place. The bet was either for money or title to the rifles...I forget. I said one condition and that was that I got some sight in shots as I never shot that rifle that far, which he agreed too. When I said that another friend listening started laughing. Mike asked him what was so funny. Doug said Joe's going to own your rifle. Mike thought then he better not do it. Doug went on to say that Joe had beeing shooting bullets pretty darn close to what the Krag was designed to shoot, plus was shooting them pretty darn close to the original velocity.....even if they were cast. We never did it and wished I had. We did shoot one time at 500 yards at a deserted Army range south of Tulsa. Mike was sighting his Model 700 in for elk hunting. I brought along my 1908 Brazilian which I was shooting 150 gr Lyman Loverins from. He laughed when I pulled it out of the case, escpecially with cast. Never shot it that far, so I just guess on the elevator sight and fired five shots. We drove out to the target and lo and behold they hit low on the target and about a basketball size group. He couldn't believe it and I couldn't believe I picked the right setting on the sight by accident.

I have a few friends that have Krags and personally haven't seen one, yet, that doesn't shoot good.

Joe

[leadman]

Old Krags can have more than copper fouling in them. The original bullets were cupro-nickel and left a very bad fouling in the bore. Read in the old American Rifleman mags from the 30s that it was common practice to oil the bullets before firing them to cut down on the fouling.

I bought an old Krag sporter recently and it took days to get the bore clean. Sure shoots good now though.

[Grapeshot]

Gentlemen! Let me say that your advice has helped quite a bit. Having only the Lee C309-200-1R mold and a couple of hundred boolits molded up I miked the slugs as cast and found that they were 0.311 to 0.312. So I gave them a bath in Lee's Liquid Alox and seated a .30 cal. gas check on them. I also ordered a Lyman DC 311299 mold and a .311 sizing die. I ran 40 of the Lee boolits through the 0.311 die and loaded them behind 34 grains of 3031. This is the only powder I have for rifle at this time. The other 60 I loaded on top of 32.5 grains of 3031. Then I got a chance to take them to the range this morning. BIG difference, not as tight as I'd like, but they are all in the 9 ring at 50 yards as long as I do my part. The front sight is going to have to be lowered. No problem as it is a brass blade pinned in the front sight stud.

I am seriously thinking of getting a Lyman DC 314299 and a 313 sizing die for that boolit.

[RayinNH]

Good, keep tinkering, the groups will tighten up. Try different seating depths, different primers if you can get them...Ray

[Shiloh]

Good, keep tinkering, the groups will tighten up. Try different seating depths, different primers if you can get them...Ray

Good advice here.

You'll find the sweet spot.

Shiloh

[bob208]

i used a 311299 bullet in a 99 carbine to take a 8 point buck. 1 shot went through end to end.