Need help with Lee 30 carbine FCD

[22lover]

I ordered this die some time ago but just now got around to trying it out. I simply don't understand how it's supposed to work the way it came. It's unlike the construction of the pistol FCD's that I have, which I understand is the way the rifle FCD's are. No knob at the top to adjust crimp.

However, the instructions have a picture showing the crimping collet at the TOP of the die when it's in your press. My collet is down halfway or more within the die. I don't see how to adjust the crimp, as there's only ring to secure it to the press.
What ends up happening is that only the boolit makes it into the collet with full travel of the press, even with the die screwed in to its max physical depth on the press. I think this one's defective, and I can see no way to adjust the actual tightness of the crimp.

I've tried a couple rounds and it just makes a mess out of the cartridge, no matter how far in or out I have it in the press.

Do I have a defective FCD as I suspect?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/wchrisma/DSC_1393.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/wchrisma/DSC_1392.jpg

[Captain Eddie]

Sounds like you have the die screwed in too far. Observe the slots in the collet from above while operating the press. If they're fullly closed before the press is at full travel then it's too deep. There's only about half a turn of the die between not enough and too much crimp.
Hope this helps.

[22lover]

Thanks Captain.

I'm trying to load the Lee 120gr cast bullet that's supposed to be great for 30 carbine. When I seat the boolit even to the lowest OAL recommended in the Lee literature (1.625"), there's a lube groove that's located right beneath the case lip. When I go back with the FCD, it pushes the case into that groove even at a very light crimp setting. Anyone know how short of an OAL I can go with this particular Lee Boolit?

This picture isn't the greatest, but you can see where the lip of the case is being depressed into the lube groove. This goes away if I seat the boolit deeper, but doing so would violate the min OAL data I have by about .10 - .15."

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/wchrisma/DSC_1394.jpg

Thanks again,

Bill

[Poygan]

I have this factory crimp die. My locking ring is about three-fourths of the way up the die. This is the only way this is adjusted. Since the carbine head spaces on the case mouth, I'm not clear as to the value of the FCD. I bought it because I was having problems in the Blackhawk I had bought. Prior to that, all rounds worked well in my Winchester carbine. I don't use the FCD anymore but instead trim the cases so that the rounds will chamber properly in the BH.

For the BH, I found the Lyman.311359 has to be seated deeply so that the boolit shoulder doesn't prevent proper head spacing. I also use the Lee 113 grain and a Lyman 313226.

If loading for a rifle is giving you problems, get a BH for a real exercise in frustration.

[1hole]

I'm sure your FCD is fine. You do have the single adjustment it needs; the die body lock ring.
Properly adjusting it, like most anything else, is results oriented, not a "by the numbers" science.

Put a new round in your press an fully raise the ram. Screw the die body down untill it will go no further by hand. Remove the cartridge and eye-ball the case mouth to see if you have a crimp; probably not. Turn the die down maybe 1/8th turn and try again. If you like the crimp, lock the die ring. If not, move it down untill you do like it.

As with any crimper, you can easily overdo it. Use some common sense with the FCD and all will be well. With the Carbine, all you really need do is remove the mouth flare plus a tiny bit.

Ignore the photo difference in your instruction sheet. That's simpy a generic sheet of paper, it's really not caliber specific and the photo need not be caliber specific since they all work the same. The photo just shows an FCD for a long cartridge, the .30 Carbine is quit short so the collet has to end much further inside the die body. You would have a VERY short die body if it was cut off to match the length of the crimping collet. ???

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, I am using the RCBS 120 grain RN which is essentially the same as the Lee RN. The book lists the OAL for the carbine at 1.671. If rounds are a bit shorter they will still stack in the mag and feed, but if they are too long for the mag its a no-go. A seaing prob can occur when there is to high a powder level. This happened to me when I use 14 grains of 4227 so I reduced the charge to 13.5, Still got functioning and decent accuracy with that. You don't need a Lee factory crimp die; the carbine case seats on the mouth and you need at least some of it to seat on. Rollling or tucking the mouth in too much may/usually will allow the case(mouth) to go too far forward in the chamber and the firing pin may not be able to strike the prmer sufficiently hard enough to achieve detonation. So no roll crimp or anything like it. What is correct is a slight taper crimp where the circumference of the case mouth is "crowded" a little bit against the bullet so that there is a tension or grip on the bullet. This should be the condition or situation whether or not there is a lube groove underneath or part of it showing. I would be the first to admit that it doesn't look good, but if you want to make it disappear then you have to seat the bullet deeper. Rounds that are below minimum OAL will still work thru the mag, but my concern with deeper seated bullets is that it can raise the pressure a bit. I had this situation with seating 30 carbine bullets for my Ruger Blackhawk..where they had to be shorter to avoid tying up the cylinder rotation. So in order to cut down on the sharper crack and recoil I simply reduced the powder charge with an eye always on the accuracy and the deeper seating effect was neutralized.. I had no problem with that, but if there is one then you have to change to/try other powders...and there are many combinations to choose from. A thing to watch with 30 carbine cases is the trim length; they tend to grow and you have to keep them all at the proper length. If they are longer then it makes all of the above more of an issue. So in sum, shorter OAL will work-so seat a bit deeper if you have to/want to not see the the lube groove, don't use the FCD, use your regular seating die to put just a slight taper crimp on the round and you should be good to go. Good shooting and good luck. LLS

[22lover]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. Does it matter that the case is bulged a bit because of the boolit being seated?

Using the Lee 120gr RN, what is my minimum OAL using 12-12.5 gr of H110?

Thanks,

Bill

[zomby woof]

My maximum OAL is 1.615". I load to 1.610" with that boolit from LEE.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=57625&highlight=zomby+woof

[Patrick L]

Does it matter that the case is bulged a bit because of the boolit being seated?


Generally no. As long as the rounds chamber easily you are good to go. Most .30 carbine chambers are generous, and most dies size more than they have too. My own carbine prefers cast bullets that are fat. I size to .311, or sometimes I shoot them as cast and lubed with LLA. My rounds looks like a snake swallowing a soupcan, but no problems.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. Does it matter that the case is bulged a bit because of the boolit being seated?

Using the Lee 120gr RN, what is my minimum OAL using 12-12.5 gr of H110?

Thanks,

Bill

Bill

Forover 40 years I've loaded numerous dfferent cast bullets in the 30 Carbine. There is no magic "minimum" OAL. Seat the Lee bullet until the case mouth covers the front lube groove and a little bit of the front driving band. This covers the lube groove and lube preventing dirt from sticking to it and gives the case mouth something solid so it won't squeeze in and slip past the chamber case mouth on chambering.

If you minimally flare the case mouth then you don't need to crimp at all. Even then only a minimal taper crimp should be used to just close the case mouth flare against the bullet. There is no "factory crimp" in any factory 30 carbine ammunition so it is beyond me why Lee made one. If you need to taper crimp then simply use the FL die by backing it out so it just irons out the flare. You do not need to do any more than that.

Larry Gibson