Need Advice RE: My New Savage

[Treetop]

My new Savage left hand Model FLCP in .308 is finally here! I will pick it up tomorrow!

My question concerns breaking in the barrel. Should I break it in with "condom" bullets and the standard regimen of: fire a round and clean the barrel for the first five rounds, then fire 5 rounds and clean, etc. etc.

or

Should I start out with cast boolits from the start? If so, what break in procedure should I use with the cast boolits.

There are many knowledgable shooters on this forum and I really respect your opinions. Thanks in advance.

[STP22]

Treetop,

You could ask 25 shooters how to do it and get 24 different answers...:roll:

I`d hazard to guess that at least half would agree that "some" condom bullets should be launched in order to iron over the typical reamer marks on the tops of the lands. A borescope peek first would scare the heck out of you.

Lacking a means to inspect the bore, I`d suggest you shoot some jacketed loads first, and clean between the first 5 rounds. Then go 5 rounds, clean...then maybe 10 rounds and clean, by then you should have a good scope zero at 100yds. Gotta do something during this time-consuming process, eh?

Butch`s Bore shine will handle the "de-coppering" chore between rounds. Let the solvent work for 10 minutes. When the wet patches come out with no color (blue/green), dry patch, then continue till you have at least 15 or 20 rounds down the bore.

You may notice the effort required to push the wet and dry patches thru the bore becomes increasingly easier. Remember, we are simply "knocking down" the irregular reamer marks in the direction the bullets travel, hopefully to make the bore a bit smoother.

The process takes some patience...but the results tend to pay off in spades.

HTH??

[Treetop]

Treetop,

You could ask 25 shooters how to do it and get 24 different answers...:roll:

I`d hazard to guess that at least half would agree that "some" condom bullets should be launched in order to iron over the typical reamer marks on the tops of the lands. A borescope peek first would scare the heck out of you.

Lacking a means to inspect the bore, I`d suggest you shoot some jacketed loads first, and clean between the first 5 rounds. Then go 5 rounds, clean...then maybe 10 rounds and clean, by then you should have a good scope zero at 100yds. Gotta do something during this time-consuming process, eh?

Butch`s Bore shine will handle the "de-coppering" chore between rounds. Let the solvent work for 10 minutes. When the wet patches come out with no color (blue/green), dry patch, then continue till you have at least 15 or 20 rounds down the bore.

You may notice the effort required to push the wet and dry patches thru the bore becomes increasingly easier. Remember, we are simply "knocking down" the irregular reamer marks in the direction the bullets travel, hopefully to make the bore a bit smoother.

The process takes some patience...but the results tend to pay off in spades.

HTH??

Yes, STP22, you're right, but that's what I'm looking for here, is different opinions! Last summer, I had my M-1 rifle rebarrelled and went through the arduous process with it for the first 96 rounds (I fired and cleaned in multiples of 8 because it was easier to keep track of in the Garand). I guess there's not much use arguing the superiority of jacketed bullets at full velocity for barrel break-in, then the fun will start... Working up cast boolit loads!

[fordwannabe]

I remember that it took about 80 rounds before the groups "magically shrank" with my lefty 308 savage, it was a stainless barrel at the time though, so that might make a difference in round count. Good luck. I went to the Savage Shooters pennsylvania get together this past saturday. The guys who put it on thought shooting at "freaking gumballs" at 100 yards would be fun, oh yeah fun thats it(actually it was a blast, if somewhat stressful). Good luck. Tom

[reddog]

Alright, I may not be a voice to trust yet, but I'll tell you this I know. CLEAN and I mean REALLY CLEAN that barrel BEFORE you ever shoot a round through it! I think it's about the best thing you can do for yer rifle. Start with a clean bore, keep a clean bore and live with a happy rifle. Just my 2 cents. Reddog (man, I don't like to jump in with both feet do I?)

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd try and be honest with myself and properly assess the unbtended usage (taking into account your historical usage. If you tend to fire a lot of rounds and usually keep rifles for a long time, it is worth the effort.

If you go to the range occasionally, hunt a few times a year and turn your rifles over every few years, maybe not worth it.

In my experience, it is the fact that it makes cleaning so much easier is the main gain (it would want to end up being easier considering the effort you have to put in :) )

Probably the best way to do it would be to clean between the first 5 shots, then between each three shots for the next 3-5 groups, then between the next 4 or so 5 shots groups.

If you are going to do it, take a few other rifles or a book to the range or you will be bored witless, waiting for ten minutes while the solvent does it's voodoo that it does so well. Fire a shot, clean leaving Bbl soak for ten mins, meanwhile, pick up another rifle and fire a group or use a 22 to plink while you wait. You might want to spread this over a few range visits. I don't think I would bother unless it was a premium grade Bbl or a stainless, they seem to need running in more, or so the opinion goes around here.

I think one of those bore snakes would be the go, followed by a very wet patch (I use a bristle brush to flood the Bbl) followed by flannellette patches. I haven't used the snakes yet, but use a separate rod for each stage, no sense screwing brushes on and off with so much cleaning going on.

Good luck.

[GabbyM]

Don't' see why you'd need full house loads. I'd be prone to use light loads just to save my shoulder. I know you've the comp model but it will still kick. I'd use a load to be easy on the brass too.

I use a little JB Bore paste to polish bores. It removes quite a bit of metal. I'm one of those who believes their can be to much use of abrasive cleaners. I'll use them after an ammonia based copper cleaner to get the frost out. Also try to avoid ammonia which is just another good reason to shoot boolits.

[docone31]

If it were me,
I would fire 5 milsurp rounds.
I would then go with paper patching, either to 100rds, or permanently. Without lapping the bore, there will be machineing marks. Feathers on the rifleing, slight chatter, etc. The milsurp rounds will remove the easiest machine marks, especially feathers. The paper will polish the bore very effectively.
I have an Enfield with severe hammer marks down the bore. After firing 18 undersized paper patched loads, with fine lapping compound lightly smeared on them, the bore cleaned up amazeing well.
Today, in my .30s, all I fire is paper patched. They all outperform anything else I have loaded up, even with identical charges, weight and diameter.
Food for thought.

[Bigscot]

I have been puzzled by the same question in the past. I now do some type of break in. I usually clean the bore really well first as mentioned above. I then shoot one and clean. Do this for 5 rounds. You should be able to tell that the bore starts to get easier to clean each time. Then start shooting 2-3 at a time and clean. Do this for a total 10 - 20 rounds. I have found that if nothing else, the bore with be easier to clean.
I bought my M70 30.06 at the beginning of hunting season and just sighted it in. It has always been a pain to clean. Later I bought a Savage M93 .17 HMR and my sons M70 .270 and broke them in in they way described above. Both rifles shoot well with the .17 being a tack driver and both clean up easy with a few patches of Butch's. Just my experience.

Bigscot

[outdoorfan]

I would defnititely get Beartooth Bullet's firelapping kit and guide. Follow it to a "T", and you'll have a very well conditioned bore to shoot lead in. Might only take 20 or so rounds to lap the machining marks and constrictions out.

[Treetop]

Many thanks for all of the replies and advice, guys!

[725]

Another FWIW point of view. Clean the dickens out of it. Fire a couple. Clean. Fire. Etc. Not being familiar with the configuration of that rifle, I have a basic observation to throw in the mix. Seems my experience has been that barrels that have dovetails cut for front and/or rear sights exhibit slight deformations in the bore consistancy. Have noted slight variations in the force used with a cleaning rod & patch. I mean, like, very slight. Further, I have addressed this by fire laping and within a few (6 - 12 rounds) it has always ironed out and groups tightened. Worse example was my buddy's .308 Remington. Pie plate groups at 100 with a brand new heavy barrel Police version. Fire lapped and it quickly grouped in the inch range.

[largom]

If you are breaking a new barrel in with jacketed bullets you MUST clean after every shot for as many shots as it takes until you get NO copper fouling after one shot. Next, go to 3 shots, cleaning after each 3 shot groups until you get no copper fouling after the group is shot.
Some barrels take forever to break in and some never do using this method. I had one custom[?] barrel that required over 100 shots.
Bear in mind that you are trying to smooth out rough tooling marks in a tough steel barrel by rubbing a small piece of copper against it. I have shot thousands of rounds trying to break-in or smooth barrels until I got enough nerve to try fire lapping. Now I use Tubbs Final Finish fire lapping kits [sold by Midway] on most barrels. One kit will usually do two barrels.
Recently I have been fire-lapping with cast boolits lubbed by rolling in a 1200 grit polishing paste. This is cheap and works well on good barrels, other barrels get the Tubb's kit.
Even with fire-lapping, I clean after EACH shot and most barrels smooth out within 20 or so shots.
Larry

[Char-Gar]

Well, there are lots of opinions expressed on this thread including some "musts". I have been shooting rifles for 55 years and I only know one thing for certain on the subject at hand;

Barrels will do their best after 50 to 100 rounds of jacketed bullet have been through them. Maybe, just maybe if you are a benchrest shooter, all of this gobble-d-gook about shooting and cleaning a few round at a time might have some purpose. But for the average hunter shooter it is just a waste of time and elbow grease.

I take a new rifle to the range and fire 20 to 30 rounds through it and take it home and clean it down to bare metal. I then do it again and clean it again. When that is done I switch to lead boolits and have no problems.

Antimony is abrasive and cast boolits with a high antimony content like linotype will take out the machine hickies in a barrel but it will take longer than the few jacketed bullets. Alloys with lower antimony content won't do diddleysquat to the internal thingies that need to go.

That is about the sum total of my knowledge on the subject gained from real shooting and not real reading.

[shotman]

do you think the factory cleans them? I have a savage 7mm mag and it has never been cleaned from day one. Will do easy 1in at 100yds with 150 sierras Have several that have not been cleaned for years. All shoot good except a thompson 7mm-08. best I can get is 2in and that is with fed factory. Cast is 5 to 6in, tried a green mountian and it was better but not a tack driver and those were cleaned. so here is another to the 25 answers

[10 ga]

When you clean between the first 5 shots use some "Comet" type cleanser on the patches. That will polish the bore very quickly and after the first 5 shots and 5 cleanings and string of 5 and clean you will be done! Even faster is to "slug" the barrel and use the slug and cleanser before the first shot. Slug polish and clean about 3 times and you are ready to start sighting in. Add 2 more ways to "break in" a barrel. Best O Luck! 10ga

[Treetop]

Lots of really good ideas, guys. Thanks for posting. One thing that always amazes my non casting, shooting buddies, is the condition of my barrels when they look down the bores. "How do get your barrels so shiny after shooting all that lead through them?" :)

[MtGun44]

I do believe that the shoot one - clean up all the copper, shoot one, etc is a good
thing for a new bbl. I do not always have the time to do it, but I would if I could. In any
case, jacketed will smooth up the rough patches or burrs in the bbl so it would seem to
be better to get a significant number of jacketed bullets down the bore before going
over to cast.

You will LOVE the accutrigger.

Bill

[S.R.Custom]

Depends on the barrel...

The last Savage I broke in had a barrel where the grooves were very smooth and bright, but the tops of the lands were rough as cobs with drilling and tooling chatter marks. It was quite apparent a good lapping was in order first...

That said, I treat my guns like I treat my engines-- I break 'em in the same way I'm going to use 'em.

[Three44s]

I use USP bore paste (JB is just as good) and polish my bores. The cleaner they stay, the less inclined I am to use the abrasives.

Three 44s