Questions about using a Lee C309-150-F in my M94

[mnzrxer]

I finally decided that I wanted to start loading for my Winchester Model 94 and shooting it a bit more. I was planning on just some plinking rounds to play with at the range (my backyard). So I picked up a Lee C309-150-F mold and a set of reloading dies. Since I wasn't going to be looking for max velocity I didn't pick up any gas checks, this may be a problem which I will get to in a minute. First, the questions.

1. What overall length are you guys using this boolit loading to? I can't find any load data for a 150 cast boolit under a 2.54" OAL. If seated to the crimp groove the OAL is about 0.1" shorter than the minimum listed in any of the data I have found.

2. The mold drops boolits around .312" which is fine, I'm sizing to .310" anyway. Unfortunately, the nose of the boolit runs about .302" and it won't chamber the last .25" without a little extra force on the lever. I have tried casting with everything from Lino to pure lead, but the smallest I can get the nose is .3015". My bore measures .301", but I just don't feel comfortable engaging the rifling that hard. Any ideas on ways to make this mold work, or is anyone looking for a Lee C309-150-F mold that drops large nosed boolits?

3. I bought Lee dies, but I think any brand would size the neck of the case the same way. The trouble is without a gas check the neck of the case catches on the bottom band of the boolit. Normally the gas check would eliminate this problem, I'm sure. Does anyone make an "expander" die, like a straight wall case would use, to help get the boolit started?


Thanks.

[Junior1942]

1. Crimp it in the crimp groove and don't worry too much about OAL.

2. "a little force" or a lot of force? A little is ok.

3. I like the Lee expander, but long nose pliers work just fine.

4. Sans gascheck, keep velocity circa 1500 or less. With gascheck, keep velocity circa 1900 or less and you'll do just fine. Lots of lube. I like LLA.

[Echo]

I believe listed OAL's are maximum, rather than minimum. And Junior is right - I have used long-nosed pliers to bell the mouth of a case. A Lyman M-die with .310 insert will probably do the job better. Load and shoot.

[NickSS]

You can also ream the id with an RCBS case mouth tool and the slight angle will allow the bullet to seat in most cases without shaving lead.

[NHlever]

I have loaded, and shot hundreds if not thousands of that boolit from 30-30 rifles of all makes, and seating to the crimp groove has worked fine in all of them. The oversized nose is a problem that I have run into from time to time, and there is no real easy answer for that. Usually an alloy change helps, but you have already tried that. I use the Lyman "M" dies for just about all my loading, and really like them. They will open up the neck just right to get that first band seated without damage. The good news is that the Lee 30-150 FN is usually a very accurate boolit in most .30 caliber guns.

[mnzrxer]

Junior1942, it takes a bit more force to close the lever than I would like. I can chamber the round by pushing it in with my thumb and the extractor will pull it out of the chamber. I just haven't shot lead in a rifle yet and my loading experience for rifles is with jacketed bullets at much higher chamber pressures where this tight fit would definitely be a bad idea.

Echo, it made more sense to me for the listed OAL on the load data to be MAXIMUM as well considering the action. I will have to check it again, but I'm pretty sure they all said minimum OAL. Doesn't sound like an issue anyway. I will just load to the crimp groove.

I hadn't thought of the needle nose pliers to open up the case mouth, I'll have to try that. Once I ran into the difficulty chambering a dummy round I stopped and started looking for answers to that issue.

Thanks for the help.

[corvette8n]

I use 8-10gr of Unique for plinker rounds in my Win 94 and Marlin 336 with the Lee mold mentioned. I use the seperate Lee crimp die, and seat the bullet until it feeds properly. Great fun at the range like shooting a .22 and the brass lasts a long time using Unique.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Is it hard to chamber because of the diameter of the boolit or the length? If length, maybe trim the cases a little.

[mnzrxer]

It is hard to chamber due to boolit diameter. I don't have my measurements with me here, but the nose of the boolit shows marks from the rifling for a distance of about 0.1" or more. I am pretty sure my boolits are being deformed a bit during sizing as well. I am using a Lyman 4500 lubri-sizer and I am pretty sure these small diameter boolits are getting deformed a small amount when forced into the sizing die.

I did look at all the load data I could find last night. Most data specifies an OAL, but not whether it is min or max. The Lee data specifies Min. OAL, but I suspect this is just a hold over from the jacketed bullet data.

While looking at load data I found data for using Hodgdon's Triple Se7en. So I loaded up 5 rounds with that to see what happened. Only 3 of the rounds could be chambered, but with 40 gr. vol. (30 gr by weight) I ended up at 1640 FPS. I didn't try to shoot a group since my chrony had a bad experience once when I tried to take velocity data and shoot a group at the same time.

I'll be looking for some Unique this weekend to give that a try. I have been wanting to pick some up for the the .44 Mag anyway, now I have even more reason to add another powder to the collection.

[Jon K]

mnzrxer,

Coat the mould cavity with mould release. this will shrink the diameter about .001"

You can also shrink the diameter, using 20:1- 30:1 lead/tin mix.

You need a boolit that drops .299-.300 nose.

Jon

[mnzrxer]

mnzrxer,

Coat the mould cavity with mould release. this will shrink the diameter about .001"

You can also shrink the diameter, using 20:1- 30:1 lead/tin mix.

You need a boolit that drops .299-.300 nose.

Jon

I did try a liberal coat of spray on mould release and it did result in boolits that I could get to chamber for the most part (that is what I shot last night), however the mould release started flaking off after casting 4 or 5 boolits. Then I would have had to completely clean the mould and start over.

I am using the Frankford Arsenal spray on mould release which seems to work great with just a light coating (when not trying to reduce the size of a boolit), but doesn't stick when applied in a thick coat. Is there another brand/type of mould release that will stick better when applied in a thick coat?

[helice]

mnzrxer,
Lee makes a slick tool called the Universal Case Expanding Die #90798. It works on cases from 22 thru 45. It forms a gentle taper as opposed to a small step. Its simple to use and cheap too. Give it a look see. Helice

[Junior1942]

..... I am pretty sure my boolits are being deformed a bit during sizing as well. I am using a Lyman 4500 lubri-sizer and I am pretty sure these small diameter boolits are getting deformed a small amount when forced into the sizing die. . . .There's part or all of your problem. You're swelling the bullet noses. Get a Lee push-through sizer.

[mnzrxer]

There's part or all of your problem. You're swelling the bullet noses. Get a Lee push-through sizer.

It is definitely contributing to the problem. The as cast boolits are still too big though. Some will chamber (after sizing) with a little force as mentioned earlier, but now I have tried more of the sized boolits and about half will not go into the chamber at all.

I've decided to try another mold and hope for slightly smaller noses on the boolits. At least if they are too small I can slowly lap the mold to get what I want. I will also be buying a Lee sizer to avoid swelling the noses next time around.

Thanks for all the input.