T/C pistol loading.......

[NSP64]

How do you keep muzzle blast/flash down on a 15" gun while still getting high velocity? I'm loading RL7 and the concussion/blast is incredable. I'm trying to get 2200 fps from a bottleneck .30 cal using 125gr sierra bullets. There isn't much load data out there for this round. I have cases that use SR and LR primers, which would give me the better (cleaner/more complete) burn with RL7? SR leaves powder in the barrel. Should I use the LR cases or move up to SR mag primers?

[leadman]

What cartridge is it?
You might be able to use IMR4198 as a substitue depending on your cartridge.
I use this in my Contender 30-30 Ackley for the reasons you state.

[Kraschenbirn]

If you've got SR and LR cases, it sounds like you're loading a .30 wildcat based upon the .308 WCF. I've loaded the 7mm JDJ #2 (.307 WCF necked to 7mm) for a Contender and the .30 BR (7BR Rem opened to .30 cal.) for an XP-100 - both with 14" barrels - and both produced an objectionable muzzle blast when pushed over 2000 fps, even with relatively light bullets. The 7mm JDJ had an SSK Arrestor Brake and, with a 120 gr JB at 2150 fps, the concussion would literally blast the cobwebs and dust out of the rafters of our covered firing line. If you're looking to achieve that kind of velocity out a 15" barrel, then you may find the accompanying flash/boom something you'll have to live with.

Bill

[NSP64]

It is actually a .30Bellm ,1 of only 2 allowed bottleneck ctg for deer hunting in ILL-.300 whisper being the other. I made some brass from necked up 7mm br cases(SR), and bought some loaded ammo based on 444 marlin brass(LR). I usually load stricktly by the books so I was wondering if using SR mag primers would get the charge to burn better?

[James C. Snodgrass]

Trying to get 2200 fps in a 15" barrel ? I'm not sure on the case length you have but that seems like a doable speed . In my 30 Herretts with a 10 " a 150 Hornady over 27 to 29 grs of Benchmark gets around 1950 to 2000 fps and is a safe load . With a 125 I wouldn't be afraid to start at 30 grs of Bench or H-4895 or H-335 , drop 2 or 3 grs for H-322 . As far as muzzle blast goes I think that it is a personal conception , myself I don't care for muzzle brakes for the reason of the freakin' concussion . My best guesstimate would be use ear protection before you shoot the deer . ? Good luck James

[HeavyMetal]

So you want to get 2200 FPS out of a 30 cal "pistol" and have be as quiet as a 22 rimfire?

Can you say "Mission Impossible"!

Seriously any bottlenecked "rifle" cartridge is gonna have some thump to it when fired and changeing from large rifle primers to small rifle primers won't make a difference in the DB's coming out the loud end of the gun!

What you might consider is changing from rifle powders to pistol powders!

I've used 4227 and 296 in my 30-30 contender with some success, 296 loads stacked all the boolits I fired in one hole at 50 yds, and the muzzle blast / noise level was much less than H-322 loads I had made.

Food for thought.

[NSP64]

Thanks, HeavyMetal and James C Snodgrass

I am not wanting quiet loads for it, I was wanting load data like you gave. There is no load data for this Ctg, and I was wondering about faster powders. I was wanting to reduce the amount of unburned powder in the barrel and the fireball out of the barrel. I don't know if switching to mag SR primers would ignite the RL7 better? Any pet loads for 30 herret should transfer over fine, at least I'll have some start point.:grin:

My barrel doesn't have a MB, just a target crown.

James are you using mag primers to set off your loads?

[NSP64]

What I was wondering is if there is a list of powders that can safely be loaded lite? I have read not to download certain powders (like H110) for fear that they go boom instead of bang.

[anachronism]

It's a cute little round. I had originally confused it with the 308 Bellm, which is much larger. The limited data out there seems to revolve around Reloader 7, as you are already doing. You may be able to lower the muzzle blast a bit by experimenting with heavier bullets. I don't believe that you'll reduce the blast by using small rifle primers. Unfortunately, muzzle blast is a signature of high intensity, small case rounds.

[NSP64]

No I have a .30bellm (different from .308 bellm) it is 444 marlin case necked down to .30 cal then trimmed to 1.4" case length.

[Rockydog]

I don't have an answer for you but I can tell you that when I start shooting my 10" 7-30 Waters people at the range start packing their bags. Sometimes I leave it in the case and sometimes I don't. Kind of depends on the people present if you know what I mean. RD

[218bee]

I live in Illinois also and hunt deer with a handgun. I always wondered what bottlenecked round me the states criteria. That sounds like a helluva round. I shoot a 14" Contender in 357 Maximum with a 180gr Hornady spire point at 1800fps. When working up loads for it I reached a velocity point (not sure what velocity) where the blast jumped noticeably. I backed off there and settled on the above load which is very accurate and I feel good out to 100yds. Only have one deer so far and would like to say my skill with a handgun contributed to his demise, but the poor bastid was 15yd broadside and didn't know what hit him

[Groo]

Groo here
Try contacting SSK..
JD may be able to help also check the weight of water your case will take
and compare it to some others to start.
Is it in a contender or oncore???? Oncore can take much higher pressures.
Compare the volume with a 30-30...

[James C. Snodgrass]

No mag primers . When I got my 1st Herrett I was shooting a lot of Benchmark in a 223 and it was a new powder at the time so I called Hodgdons and asked what they thought . As far as data went they told me similar to what I posted . I know that their new data for the 30-30 with a 150 gr bullet is 29 grs but the pressure level of the 30-30 is restricted to the old guns it was chambered in . I shot close to 8k of the 28 gr combo in my pistol with no pressure problems or lost cases . A lot of the old IHMSA load books had some REAL HEAVY loads in them with a variety of powders. I will try to find my book and can post or PM you the data . James

[anachronism]

I just thought of something. Since you have loads based on 7 BR brass, perhaps you could start out with 30 BR loads. I don't know how much your case has been sized/reformed, but this may give you a start. There is a LOT of information available on the 30 BR.

[James C. Snodgrass]

[smilie=1:Groo , I wouldn't have the nerve to ask J.D for data on Mike Belm's cartridge . When I talked to Mike the things he said about J.D can't be posted here, As far as I can tell from other folks they had some legal wrangling over propriety cartridges . James

[HeavyMetal]

If you can use start loads for the 30 Herrett your in luck!

I just happen to have the complete loading manual for the contender under my desk.

The Hornady section list loads for a 130 gr bullet
Start loads are:

Win. 296 17.6 grains 1800 FPS

IMR 4227 18.7 grains 1800 FPS

Hercules 2400 18.8 grains 1800 FPS with a 135 Sierra

These should all be "consumed" in a 14 or 15 inch barrel

These powders just might get you what you want! BY the way no mention of mag primers was in print. I think I'd use standard Large rifle until I fired 40 or 50 with pistol powders.

[Echo]

My 30-223 has the same boiler room as a 30 Herret, so I can use those loads in my XP-100. What is the volume of your case? And maybe I agree that you should try faster powder such as 4227, 4198, &cetera, depending. If you are cutting the case back to 1.4", I'll bet your boiler room is close to mine, and the 30 Herret, and the 308X1.5, and the 8mmKurz, &cetera.

I used the Powley Computer to come up with loads for my 30-223. Handy to have when dealing with wildcats. Take a fired, but unsized deprimed case, seat a bullet to the correct depth, weigh it, then use a hypo needle to fill the case w/H2O, and weigh again. The weight of the H2O will give you the case volume, and the computer can put you in the ballpark for powder loads. Twenty-some grains of 4227 worked nicely. I didn't have a chronograph at the time, so can't give MV figures, but it knocked rams down when I could hit 'em. All this with 110-130 gr j-words.

[NSP64]

Thanks for all the info, I was researching 30 BR loads and happen to notice that 30BR shooters have guns with 1-17/1-18 twist rifling shooting lite ( 115-125gr bullets). If my twist is faster, should I try lite bullets or heavier? What twist are your barrels?

[leadman]

I still think you should give IMR 4198 a try. I use this in my 30-30A Imp. with 150 gr. bullet at 2200 to 2300 fps depending on ambient temp. This is in a 14" barrel which includes a 1 1/2" muzzle break on it.
This is much quieter than my 6.5TCU with WC845 and 129gr bullet with a break.
IMR 4198 was also much quieter in my 10" 25-35 Win. then H4895 was with equal velocities.
You do have to watch IMR 4198 in hot temps.

[anachronism]

Faster twists are usually used for longer (heavier) bullets. What twist do you have?

[NSP64]

It is a Virgin Valley with a 1-10" twist. The load data for the ctg says 125-130 gr bullet. I was wondering if I sholud try 140-160gr bullets?

[anachronism]

Be careful to match your bullet construction to your expected impact velocity.

[NSP64]

I pulled some mil surp 308 nato bullets (147fmj) loaded & shot them 2day. I think that is the way to go.