insanelupus
07-18-2009, 02:06 AM
Wheel weights are getting tough to come by. Most shops near me are reusing what they can. I’ve had to really scrounge to come up with about ¼ of the wheel weights I was able to get last year. Prices are a little lower this year, about $0.15 / pound, but I’m finding a higher concentration of Zn clip on and stick on wheel weights. I also typically have about a 30% loss due to steel clips, junk, lug nuts, valve stems, dirt and other assorted variables that find their way into the mix. I’m not figuring in the cost of propane or the 30% loss into the initial purchase price to melt them into my RCBS ingots.
I bought 130 pounds + of lead today at about $0.20 / pound, already in ingot form. Hopefully, if it’s useable, it’ll be a good deal. If not, I blew $25 on a gamble. But, I’m inclined to believe I need to purchase a lead hardness tester. I’m considering the Cabin Tree tester, the LBT tester, and the Lee tester, in that order. I’ve heard good things about the Cabin Tree. I want the tester mostly to at least know (or have a really educated guess) as to the BHN of the alloy.
The man I bought them from at a garage sale said it was an alloy of wheel weights, diver’s weights, roof flashing, and the lead ring from under toilets. I was under the impression this would be softer than my wheel weight alloy (I had a good idea of the BHN of all but the “diver’s weights”, which I assumed were soft, a possible mistake on my part) I was currently casting with and would be a good thing to use in .45 Long Colt (using traditional loads), .45-70 (again, a traditional type load), and .38 Specials. Now I’m not so sure. He may have thrown everything in but the kitchen sink!
Some of the muffin tin ingots have a slightly “galvanized” pattern in the oxidation at the bottom and sides of the lead. I am assuming this is a left over from the muffin tin he used as an ingot mould. The tops of these “muffins” don’t have that pattern and when scratched with a fingernail the oxidation gives way to a bright silvery look.
However, I used a steel ball bearing and my RCBS ingot molded wheel weight alloy and did some tests with different ingots pulled from the top of the piles. I also then tried a test with my RCBS ingots poured from stick on wheel weights (nearly pure lead). I placed both ingots in a vice with a ball bearing between them and then cranked on the handle until it couldn’t go any more, then I let them sit a few minutes and took them out and measured them. Measurements were done under magnification with a set of calipers. One problem I saw immediately, most ingots are not precisely “flat” as the edges tend to be raised a touch more than the center of the ingots on the bottom. This may have affected my tests as some of the ingots it was tough to keep the bearing on the flat spots. Also, each test only can compare between the two materials, not the entire test results as the time and pressure applied was a considerable variable between tests.
Results are as follows:
? = Mystery Alloy
WW = Wheel Weights
SoWW = Stick on Wheel Weights
Test 1
? = .294”
WW = .244”
Test 2
? = .226"
WW = .300"
Test 3
? = .226”
WW = .292”
Test 4
? = .196”
WW = .261”
Test 5
? = .212”
SoWW = .346”
Test 6
WW = .258”
SoWW = .352”
These 130 pounds appear to be a mixture of several different casting sessions as at least one ingot appears to be softer than the wheel weight mix. However, 3 of 4 are a harder alloy for some reason. At least they appear to be due to the smaller indentation from the wheel weight alloy. Tests 2-4 it is interesting to note that the comparison between the ? and WW indicates the ? alloy is about 23-25% harder than the WW alloy (by numerical comparison). I know the WW alloy and SoWW alloy is good, I melted it myself. Test 5 and 6 was done simple for a comparison purpose as a constant (using the same SoWW ingot).
I’m not sure what to do with the mystery alloy now. My inclination is to pick some of this “harder” alloy (in comparison to the WW) and melt it in my little 10 pound pot and using a thermometer, regulate the temperature to stay below 750 degrees. If I can do this and the ingots melt fine, I’ll assume it is all useable lead, just a harder alloy and cast accordingly. If it is “mush” at 750 degrees, then I’ll know it’s contaminated with Zn and relegate it to “fish sinker alloy” and sell it off as such. Even if it’s only good for fish sinkers I think I can at least get my money back out of it.
I hope I’m not disappointed. I was really hoping this was a softer alloy. I don’t really want to test every one of the 92 ingots of the mystery alloy, but I might. Then I can at least sort it out as “softer than WW” and “harder than WW”. Might make for a boring night though, but then, who knows, perhaps a nice winter project to stash away for those cold Montana nights!
Anyone have any suggestions, thoughts, ideas, or other input? Maybe I’ve overlooked something. I might as well get used to this, as it appears scrounging for lead might be more conducive to building up a small stockpile of it than wheel weights. I just hate shooting and casting an alloy I can’t positively identify as being at least non -contaminated and at least some idea of a BHN.
I bought 130 pounds + of lead today at about $0.20 / pound, already in ingot form. Hopefully, if it’s useable, it’ll be a good deal. If not, I blew $25 on a gamble. But, I’m inclined to believe I need to purchase a lead hardness tester. I’m considering the Cabin Tree tester, the LBT tester, and the Lee tester, in that order. I’ve heard good things about the Cabin Tree. I want the tester mostly to at least know (or have a really educated guess) as to the BHN of the alloy.
The man I bought them from at a garage sale said it was an alloy of wheel weights, diver’s weights, roof flashing, and the lead ring from under toilets. I was under the impression this would be softer than my wheel weight alloy (I had a good idea of the BHN of all but the “diver’s weights”, which I assumed were soft, a possible mistake on my part) I was currently casting with and would be a good thing to use in .45 Long Colt (using traditional loads), .45-70 (again, a traditional type load), and .38 Specials. Now I’m not so sure. He may have thrown everything in but the kitchen sink!
Some of the muffin tin ingots have a slightly “galvanized” pattern in the oxidation at the bottom and sides of the lead. I am assuming this is a left over from the muffin tin he used as an ingot mould. The tops of these “muffins” don’t have that pattern and when scratched with a fingernail the oxidation gives way to a bright silvery look.
However, I used a steel ball bearing and my RCBS ingot molded wheel weight alloy and did some tests with different ingots pulled from the top of the piles. I also then tried a test with my RCBS ingots poured from stick on wheel weights (nearly pure lead). I placed both ingots in a vice with a ball bearing between them and then cranked on the handle until it couldn’t go any more, then I let them sit a few minutes and took them out and measured them. Measurements were done under magnification with a set of calipers. One problem I saw immediately, most ingots are not precisely “flat” as the edges tend to be raised a touch more than the center of the ingots on the bottom. This may have affected my tests as some of the ingots it was tough to keep the bearing on the flat spots. Also, each test only can compare between the two materials, not the entire test results as the time and pressure applied was a considerable variable between tests.
Results are as follows:
? = Mystery Alloy
WW = Wheel Weights
SoWW = Stick on Wheel Weights
Test 1
? = .294”
WW = .244”
Test 2
? = .226"
WW = .300"
Test 3
? = .226”
WW = .292”
Test 4
? = .196”
WW = .261”
Test 5
? = .212”
SoWW = .346”
Test 6
WW = .258”
SoWW = .352”
These 130 pounds appear to be a mixture of several different casting sessions as at least one ingot appears to be softer than the wheel weight mix. However, 3 of 4 are a harder alloy for some reason. At least they appear to be due to the smaller indentation from the wheel weight alloy. Tests 2-4 it is interesting to note that the comparison between the ? and WW indicates the ? alloy is about 23-25% harder than the WW alloy (by numerical comparison). I know the WW alloy and SoWW alloy is good, I melted it myself. Test 5 and 6 was done simple for a comparison purpose as a constant (using the same SoWW ingot).
I’m not sure what to do with the mystery alloy now. My inclination is to pick some of this “harder” alloy (in comparison to the WW) and melt it in my little 10 pound pot and using a thermometer, regulate the temperature to stay below 750 degrees. If I can do this and the ingots melt fine, I’ll assume it is all useable lead, just a harder alloy and cast accordingly. If it is “mush” at 750 degrees, then I’ll know it’s contaminated with Zn and relegate it to “fish sinker alloy” and sell it off as such. Even if it’s only good for fish sinkers I think I can at least get my money back out of it.
I hope I’m not disappointed. I was really hoping this was a softer alloy. I don’t really want to test every one of the 92 ingots of the mystery alloy, but I might. Then I can at least sort it out as “softer than WW” and “harder than WW”. Might make for a boring night though, but then, who knows, perhaps a nice winter project to stash away for those cold Montana nights!
Anyone have any suggestions, thoughts, ideas, or other input? Maybe I’ve overlooked something. I might as well get used to this, as it appears scrounging for lead might be more conducive to building up a small stockpile of it than wheel weights. I just hate shooting and casting an alloy I can’t positively identify as being at least non -contaminated and at least some idea of a BHN.