.45 Colt or 44 Spl??? [Archive]

captaint

07-17-2009, 10:43 AM

Have decided to get me one of those USFA Single Action Revolvers. My dilemma is which caliber? Certainly, there's nothing wrong with the .45 Colt. History, performance and all. Won't be doing any cowboy shooting. I would have to get one of the 45ACP cylinders to go with.
Then there's the 44 Special.. such a sweet cartridge. And probably fewer of them out there. This is just going to be a fun gun. No serious work other than loading the most accurate ammo I can assemble. Now let's hear some great opinions for both. I just can't decide. I will get it through Long Hunter Supply.
And another question. What's up with the standard and black powder frames. Only diff I can find is the spring loaded pin holding the base pin. Is one frame stronger than the other?? So......whattya think??? Enjoy Mike[smilie=b:

45nut

07-17-2009, 10:45 AM

Well, some people here would accuse me of bias.. but,,, the 45 Colt has worked since 1873!

Dframe

07-17-2009, 11:07 AM

The 45 Colt has the 44 special by about 35 years but not much else. Loading ammuniton for either is as simple as it gets. You are correct about the black powder frame. The earlier colts had a screw to retain the basepin. It was later changed to the spring loaded crosspin. I have Colts (modern) with both systems. Your opinion of how the gun looks is the only serious criterion in this case

Wally

07-17-2009, 11:08 AM

I have a Ruger Blackhawk in the .45 Colt w/ a .45 ACP cylinder as well as two .44 Magnum revolvers and a S & W .44 Special revolver. I have fired thousands of .44 Specials and .45 Colts...using a wide variety of bullets & loads--the .44 Special always is more accurate & consistent. If I could only have one..it would not be the ..45 Colt.

winelover

07-17-2009, 11:32 AM

Can't go wrong with either caliber, providing one hand-loads and gun is sufficiently strong enough to handle the heavy loadings. That said, if your going to rely on factory fodder, opt for the versatile44 Mag.

Winelover

hamour

07-17-2009, 11:33 AM

The 44 special leaves more metal in the chamber walls, thus is inherently stronger. If limited to just one it would be the special and you could interchange bullets with any 44 mags you load for.

44 Special or 45 Colt? Just get both!

Rodfac

07-17-2009, 11:37 AM

A lot of Rugers have oversize cylinder throats in .45 LC. Mine included...a New Vaquero. I had them opened up by Cylindersmith in less than two weeks turnaround. Groups improved and the gun will now shoot into less than 2" at 25 yds with selected loads.

The .44 Special is a no brainer to load. I've got a Smith M-24-3, and one of the Lipsey's Ruger .44 Specials. Both are tack drivers, the Ruger especially. Groups from either are way under 2" and if I did the math work up, would probably average 1.5" or less. It's a fantastic revolver, and at $479 out the door, a bargin compared to some others.

I'd go with the .44...easier to find a good load, no throat problems if you go the Ruger route, and a better selection of bullets.

JMHO, Rodfac

square butte

07-17-2009, 11:43 AM

I have been working on the same dilema, and have come to the conclusion that I need one of each. But were I to buy one first or just one, it would be the .44 spec., with the add on option of a .44-40 (WCF) cylinder. After I had that one, I would get the .45 Colt/.45 acp. I really like the .44 spec. and have had great luck with accuracy in reloading. Also have a Winchester 1866 carbine copy in .44.spec. and shoot it out of a couple of S & W 29's.

ddeaton

07-17-2009, 11:54 AM

Dude, you have to have one of each. You cant have just one.

oldhickory

07-17-2009, 12:12 PM

Well, on the USFA Single Actions I would probably go with the later cross pin design simply to avoid buggering up the screw and scratching the frame with a screw driver on the earlier design. You could also loose the screw on the earlier model. As for strength, they're both going to be the same.

Now, .44Spl vs. .45 Colt. That's a something no man should have to decide on. I've had quite a few of both grace my collection and would hate to have to decide between the two. Either is perfectly suitable for anything you'll ever want a big bore handgun to do.

captaint

07-17-2009, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the opinions shooters!! I think it's going to have to be the 44spl. I even have dies and boolit molds for that one. Brass too.
Of course, then I will have to come up with some reason why I must have one in 45 colt!! You guys know how it works..... thanks again Mike

462

07-17-2009, 04:50 PM

captaint,

You've made your decision, and it's the one I'd make, too.

Been loading the .44 Special for many years -- from 700 fps plinking loads to Elmer's full power 1200 fps loads. If ever I had to have just one handgun cartridge, .44 Special would be the one.

Wally

07-17-2009, 05:11 PM

Ealier this month I fired both calibers on my range at a varierty of steel swinger plates at 50 yards & more. I had two loads for the .45 Colt & 5 for the .44 Special---I have found the .44 Special to always be more accurate than the .45 Colt. Also, the Colt does not do well with lighter bullets--but the .44 Special does well with bullets from 210 to 260 grains... Also seems the Colt is far more finicky with the type of poweder used--not so with the Special. To my amazement the .44 Special is also very accuarte in my M-29 & my Ruger Superblackhawk revolvers.

Trey45

07-17-2009, 05:19 PM

I'd rather shoot a 45 Colt than any other cartridge. That's not saying the 44 special isn't without it's own merit. But what can the 44 special do, that 45 Colt can't do just a little bit better?

Wally

07-17-2009, 05:21 PM

It is far more accurate.

felix

07-17-2009, 06:48 PM

Stock 45 Colt chambers are the pits, revolters and rifles. 44 chambers are commensurate. ... felix

jh45gun

07-17-2009, 08:18 PM

45 Colt cannot be that unaccurate in a GOOD GUN it only has been going strong like the man said 1873.

Four Fingers of Death

07-18-2009, 03:23 AM

I have several 44s and 45s. The 44s are a no brainer to load, but the colt always seems to soot up the cases, etc, etc, etc. Having said that, there is nothing like plonking 45Colts into the chamber. You don't have to line em' up, it is all hole, just throw them roughly in the direction of the chamber and they fall in with a satisfying 'Ker-schluunk! like dropping 12Ga shells into a good double, very gratifying. I'd get both if you have the bucks, or the 44 first, then later get the big old 45 Colt.

Four Fingers of Death

07-18-2009, 03:33 AM

Lloyd Smale

07-18-2009, 06:51 AM

In that platform id take the 44 special. With its smaller case its going to be more effecient at burning powder and will probably give better accuracy. I love the 45 colt but my use of the 45 colt is big loads in large framed rugers where i can use its case capasity to my benifit. With the colt sized frame a 44 special can be loaded to do anything a 45 colt in the same gun can. Another advantage is alot of the 250 grain class bullets in the 45 arent good designs and the 45 a low power with those lighter bullets can be a challange when working up loads. There are many good 44 molds out there and the 44s are just easier to find good accurate loads for. Another point is and i doubt this applys to usfa guns but like felix said there is a wide variatiy of specs for 45 colt chambers. Id bet that 90 pecent of the cylindersmiths bussiness is fixing 45 colts.

ChuckS1

07-18-2009, 07:31 AM

I have a USFA Pre-War in .45 Colt that is the nicest new revolver I own. Bore is .451 and will shoot into 2" at 25 yards all day long. You can't beat USFA in terms of quality, despite with the Colt fanboys will tell you. And don't even compare it to a Blackhawk in terms of fit and finish; that's like comparing a Maserati to a Ford. As accurate as my pre-24 S&W, in terms of comparing .45 Colt to .44 Special, using my own cast boolits and Unique.

wonderwolf

07-18-2009, 09:35 AM

I would trade in my 45LC for a 44spl in the same gun, I like the Long colt but I only have the one gun and 5 others that are in 44mag...so its a compatibility issue with me. Get one of both and go from there lol

targetshootr

07-18-2009, 07:10 PM

There's a 45 Rodeo on Ruger at an incredible price with the case hardened hammer. l wound up getting one in each caliber.

Dframe

07-18-2009, 07:28 PM

Congrats. I own both but my pride and joy is my SAA in 44 special. Nothing feels quite the same or shoots anything like it

Four Fingers of Death

07-19-2009, 06:30 AM

WOW!!!! Just went over to my local Cowboy Action site and there are a pair of consec numbered USFAs in 44 Special at a bit dearer than a new set of Rugers. I just happened to have got my 44 Mag Marlin 1894 running on 44 Specials, grownnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Here we go again. Once in a lifetime opportunity, etc, etc, etc.

PS, I forgot to mention they have Tru Ivory grips as well.

PPS, The schmuck won't answer his phone!!!!! Answering machine blues :(

I heard from him this afternoon, he is a night shift worker, that explains that.

The guns are a consec pair, blued finish with cc hardened hammers, 4 5/8" or whatever, with Tru Ivory grips, owned by a guy I know through the cowboy shooting world. He is moving out of cowboy and into BPCR.

They are five years old and he has entered 2-3 matches each year.

Now I'll have to sell my Ruger NM Vaqs and my Piettas and get a 45Colt USAF or a Colt to match these suckers.

Sorry, not trying to steal the thread, just a coincidence that these guns came to my attention 5 minutes after I answered the thread. I have never seen a USAF in Australia yet, let aloe one second hand, let alone two!

These are pretty much the pistols I wanted being an Elmer Keith fan, but boy I've been beating around the bush getting to them. i couldn't afford them but have worked my way through 8 Rugers and three clones on the way.

Good luck with your revolver, you'll be happy with either I'm sure.

Bret4207

07-19-2009, 12:32 PM

44 or 45? Asking which someone else would get is like asking which he prefers- Mary Anne or Ginger, Marilyn Monroe or Jane Russell, Jessica Alba or Angelina Jolie. Only the man looking can answer that question.

Potsy

07-19-2009, 07:41 PM

I wanted a .44 special for years, particularly after the new Ruger flattop came out, but the more I looked, the more I decided that a .45 that's lighter than my Bisley is what I want. For what I do, in terms of accuracy and power on an SAA frame, there's not much difference (particularly when there's always a big frame .45 laying around). I've also hit a point in life where I don't have as much time to cast and reload, so I'm trying to keep it simple.
But that's just me. To each his own.
BTW, Jane, Jessica, and I never could make up my mind between Mary Anne or Ginger.

jim4065

07-19-2009, 08:03 PM

Mary Anne, Marilyn, Jessica. 44 Special - unless you're gonna shoot BP, then go with the bigger case.

Mark

07-19-2009, 08:30 PM

44 Special & Mary Ann.

Mark

mtgrs737

07-19-2009, 11:30 PM

I have both and either is a great choice! I do enjoy shooting the 44 spl. a bit more though, actually my son and I shot the 44 spl. about an hour and a half ago, he was impressed. Throw a dart, flip a coin, etc. you can't go wrong with either.

9.3X62AL

07-20-2009, 12:54 AM

I have both--enjoy both--but the 45 Colt takes a bit more tweaking to make it shoot as well as the 44 Special. Most 45 Colts come with wide chambers, many Ruger 45 Colts came with tight throats, so it's a bit of a crapshoot in 45. 44s seem to have a lot better dimensional integrity. Whether that translates to better accuracy in the hands of the operator is conjectural, but I can make either run well and shoot good.

StrawHat

07-20-2009, 07:11 AM

My choice would be the old style frame and the 45 Colt cartridge. I got rid of almost all my 44s and am trying to sell my last one.

The 45 Long Coolt is a tremendous cartridge in it's original form. From a ASAF gun it should not suffer the dimensional problems that have plagued it in the Colts, S&Ws and Rugers.

Good luck.

cajun shooter

07-20-2009, 08:03 AM

+1 on the post by StrawHat. Guys, you can not compare what you have seen with the Rugers, Colts or other makes when you are looking at USFA's. I just became the proud owner of a matched pair of 45 Colt 4 3/4 Premiums. These guns are true pieces of art when it comes to craftsmanship. They remind me of the first Colts That I picked up and looked at in 1963. No flaws no where. Pure perfection. Capitant you will not go wrong in buying from Long Hunter, he's the nicest man that I've ever dealt with. You will have a wait on your hands as the owner of the factory is building other guns and not the bread& butter guns that put them at the top. Maybe things will turn around and Jim Finch will have your gun or guns in short order. The wait killed me after seeing other shooters with the USFA's at cowboy matches or posting how nice the guns were. Good luck in your purchase. Later David

Dan Cash

07-20-2009, 09:20 AM

If you want to shoot Black Powder, get the .45. Other wise, get the .44. If you want magnum power get a magnum.

2ndAmendmentNut

07-23-2009, 07:32 PM

Both are accurate. Both require about the same amount of powder and lead. On a fixed sight gun any advantage the 44 has in accuracy over the 45 is gone as far as I am concerned. Maybe on an adjustable sight revolver I would go with the 44, but then again the 45 is just too fun. I have seen some pretty impressive groups shot by guns with those 45acp cylinders. If it were me I would go with the 45 Colt.

MtGun44

07-23-2009, 11:33 PM

GLL

07-24-2009, 01:08 AM

The .44Specials are just too pretty to pass up ! :) :)

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/29487A849CD2E2F/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D565ADB5ECC5C7D/orig.jpg

Ben

07-24-2009, 05:06 AM

Jerry:

Tell us your favorite load for that 44 spec. That is a beauty ! !

Ben

StrawHat

07-24-2009, 06:29 AM

The .44Specials are just too pretty to pass up ! :) :)

Jerry

Oh Jerry, you just like the launch vehicle, you have them in 38 also. Too bad there were not many chambered in 45.

They are swell revolvers and I wish I had the foresight to keep a couple. Ah, the sweet stupidity of youth!

missionary5155

07-24-2009, 07:56 AM

Good morning
In my simple form of thinking.... a BIG hole is always better.
.45 is bigger than .43 ! As you well know a 44 Special (Magnums are the same) is not .44 but .43. I can always download a .45 more easily than up load a 43 Special to 45 Colt power.
In Peru I can find 45 Colt ammo off and on... 44 Special does not exist.. so again just maybe 45 Colt ammo is easier to find worldwide.
Even the US Army settled on the .45. The 44 Russian(.43) was available but lacked the POWER the Army needed so they decided on the .45 Schofield in the S&W top break revolvers.
So me I will go .45 any day. As much as I like .45 I wonder why I like .41 more ?? Must be LLama fur balls....

Trey45

07-24-2009, 11:17 AM

It is far more accurate.

I mean absolutely no offense here at all. But just how exactly do you know how accurate my 45 Colts are? Accuracy is relative to many things, sure a good gun is crucial to good shooting usually, but I have seen people take real dogs of a gun and make them accurate through load developement. I have also seen brand new guns that wouldn't hit the same place twice. It's a matter of preference more than anything, if someone prefers 44 special then they develope a good working load for that gun and get superlative accuracy from it. I prefer 45 Colt and have developed loads for mine that deliver that same kind of accuracy. Broad sweeping statements about one calibers accuracy over another often don't take into account load developement.

Wally

07-24-2009, 11:33 AM

Try45,

As I have both I was merely stating what I have found to be the case for me. Believe me I like the .45 Colt--- I have a great set-up, a private range which I can shoot out to 250 yards onto a sand berm. I use steel swinger plates of various sizes as targets. I shoot all the most popular calibers and it breaks my heart that I cannot get the accuracy out of my Ruger .45 Colt as I do with the other calibers... I have tried for years to get what I feel is good accuracy with the .45 Colt at 50 yards and more..to at least duplicate that of the .44 Special. My hat is off to anyone that has done better than I, with theirs.

If we had the oppurtunity, I'd wish that you could shoot my Ruger .45 Colt and show me what I need to do to get the accuarcy that you enjoy with yours. I am pleased to hear that you both enjoy shooting yours and it is offering you the accuarcy that you feel that it should.

Trey45

07-24-2009, 11:47 AM

If we had the oppurtunity, I'd wish that you could shoot my Ruger .45 Colt and show me what I need to do to get the accuarcy that you enjoy with yours. I am pleased to hear that you both enjoy shooting yours and it is offering you the accuarcy that you feel that it should.

:)
I'd like nothing better than a get together to shoot guns, it sounds like you have a wonderful setup where you live for shooting. I can only reach out to 100 yards behind my place, and still don;t have any steel swingers to knock around. I assume you've already checked your cylinder throats for concentricity and appropriate size. I know how it is to have a gun you struggle with for accuracy, it can be a real headache, but if it was easy, everyone would do it! If you want I can write down my loads and send them in PM to you for your consideration, but what works in my guns may not work in yours at all, and vice versa. It's all part of the addiction!

Wally

07-24-2009, 11:59 AM

The Ruger had cylinder chambers of .455~.456" and a barrel of .451". As luck would have it the ejector screw broke off--I sent to Ruger with a polite letter requesting that it thet would, to replace the cylinders (it has a .45 ACP cylinder) with chambers of .451~.452", which is what they did! However the accuarcy, while better, is not what I feel that it should be.

My test is this--75 yards---12" steel disk/plate. On a good day I should be able to hit it offhand with each & evey shot. With the .44 Socail in my M-29 I can do so at the same range with a 6" x 18" steel plate.

In May I used my Ruger SBH with a Lee 208 WC bullet in the .44 Special..I hit that 6" x 18" plate at 75 yards with six shots...If I could do the same with the .45 Colt at with teh 12" plate, I'd be might happy! I do realize that many others can do much better than can I---but a man must know his limitations....

IHMSA

07-24-2009, 08:44 PM

All I know is that in 1982 there were more than one or two fellow contestants slappin' down $600+ cash on my bench trying to get me to cough up my 8 3/8 25-5.

Nothing better than a Wednesday piece.

captaint

07-29-2009, 07:12 AM

Wally

07-29-2009, 11:51 AM

Captaint,

Glad that you decided. I am sure you'll enjoy shooting it as much as I do with mine. It is quite enjoyable to develop loads with different bullets and to compare them. I have used the following bullets

208 Lee Wadcutter
200 Lee RNF
240 Lee SWC-TL
240 Lyman RNF
240 Lyman RN
250 Keith
255 Lee SWC

All have provided great accuraacy---the 208 WC is surprisingly accurate even out to 75 yards. I have found that HP-38 & Bullseye powders to work extremely well in the .44 Special.

softpoint

07-29-2009, 09:21 PM

And me.,I'd go the .45 colt and get the ACP cylinder. I have a good friend who has a 5.5 inch USFA, in .45 colt and it is one of the most accurate revolvers I have ever fired. We shoot the Lee 200gr. RNFP in it. 20 yard offhand groups are often just an egg-shaped single hole, if the shooter does his part.

StrawHat

07-30-2009, 06:13 AM

Four Fingers of Death

07-30-2009, 06:31 AM

And this my friends is why we pose the question in the first place... Knew I would get a lot of great input. I would like to thank you all for your opinions & passion. Ordered the 44Spl yesterday. 7 or 8 weeks. It's gonna be fun!! Enjoy Mike

You will surely enjoy your gun. I still can't get over the fact that not 5 mins after reading your initial post a cowboy shooting colleague who is going over to BPCR, advertised his pair of 44USAFs on our site. I flew out to China on my honeymoon a few days after buying them, so I will get them when I get back.

Mick.

captaint

07-30-2009, 05:02 PM

FFD - I know this is gonna be a ton of fun when the gun arrives. And Softpt - this is not to say that I won't decide I just have to have another in 45LC. We all know it's a great caliber also. You guys know how it works!!! Mike

HWooldridge

07-30-2009, 07:16 PM

You've made the final decision but I'll chime in anyway. I have both - .44 special in a Colt and .45 LC in a Ruger. I really cannot see much difference in accuracy between the two and both of mine will one-hole at 25 with the right loads. The Colt is a bit handier (4-3/4 bbl vs 7-1/2 on the Ruger) but either will do the job. However, I would not feel comfortable stoking up the .45 much above factory loads in a Colt, while the Ruger takes it in stride. Any game I've shot with one or the other did not seem to know the difference...

9.3X62AL

07-30-2009, 07:31 PM

.44 Spl is a straight case. .45 LC is a tapered case, however most dies are straight so the
back end of the case rattles around. If you want a really good fit, you have to give up on
carbide dies (straight only) and use an old set of steel dies before they started making them
straight (altho some may still be properly tapered). A minor point, but for best possible accy
you kinda want the brass to fit the cyl at both ends.

I agree with Bret on choosing - and I'd take Maryanne any day. Ginger looked to be WAY high maintenance. ;-)

My Rodeo is .45 LC, but my screen name hints at where my real loyalties lie.

Bill

Ginger would be a real PITA, for sure.

45 Colt is tapered, per The Book. One of the kinks I've instituted to wring better accuracy from the Ruger was to neck-size the brass about 1/3 the case length. The .449" expander spud doesn't get on well with boolits sized .454", either--so Buckshot was tasked with making a .452" Lyman M-die spud. Those two mods tightened groups nicely, after honing out the cylinder throats to .453".

44 Special has a lot less drama involved--just load ammo with conventional/factory dies, and shoot. Repeat as needed.