LBT mould issues

[trcuda]

Howdy,

Been lurking here for a while, absorbing all the info I can (its been a bunch, thanks!).

Anyway, I have been casting for a couple of years, really getting into it the last 8 months or so. I have been using Lyman, Ohaus, Saeco and Lee moulds but decided to take the plunge and order a couple of LBT moulds from his sale list. I have only tried one of them, a .265" 115 gr LFN and it has been giving me fits.

I am using Lyman #2 alloy assembled using lino, WW and 50/50 solder. I am using a Lee Bottom pour pot and running at between 625 and 700 degrees depending on the mould I happen to be using.

I followed the directions that came with the LBT moulds about preheating and casting methods but I just cant get the boolits to fill out correctly. I am running at 700 degress, have tried up to 750 with no difference. about half the boolits have bands that are not filled out along with wrinkles and lines. The half that have filled out bands still have some lines and wrinkles in them. Even the best looking boolits will be marred by a line that angles across the nose, both cavities, usually but not always in the same area. There is no corresponding mark in the cavities so I dont think it is a flaw in the mold.

I used it for the third time tonight and I decided the heck with it, I am going to clean and scrub it like I would a Lee AL mould. Did not help any. I am running out of ideas, anybody have any?

Thanks,
Tim

[HeavyMetal]

I don't think the mold is "dirty" I think your not as hot as you think, alloy wise.

What I will suggest:

1 turn the pot control all the way up!

2 Give it a good 30 minutes after the alloy get to the point you can flux it easily

3 Stir the alloy with a good 1/4 inch pine dowel while fluxing and use some dry wood shavings if you have them.

4 make sure your mold has beem sitting on the top of the pot the entire time it'd been on!

5 with the mold closed dip a corner of it into the alloy, after you've fluxed it, and leave it there until no lead sticks to it when you pull it out!

6 instantly, after you take the mold corner out of the alloy, dip the sprue plate, the section you hit with a mallet to cut the sprue, into the alloy until it almost touchs the block!

7 as soon as the alloy does not stick to the sprue plate put the mold under the pot and pour
a boolit. Do not pour directly into the mold but allow the alloy to hit the "countersunk" area at the sprue hole and shrwill into the cavity.

8 make a good sized spure puddle and keep the mold hot enough to keep this puddle liquid for a good 10 count after pouring the last boolit.

[trcuda]

I am using a Lyman thermometer that has been checked against a second identical one. I have been preheating my mould as you suggest and after I do it takes about 7 seconds for the sprue to change from bright shiny to grey. Not the full 10 seconds you suggest but with the mould this hot I am getting fairly frosty looking boolits. I have not had to run any of my other moulds this hot.

I have been using "fatwood" shavings as flux and stirring with a paint stick.

Thanks,
Tim

[danski26]

HeavyMetal listed a good proceedure to follow. The LBT molds are top of the line. I like them more that any other molds out there. give it some time. I think heat is your issue also. Frosted shoot just fine.

[Ben]

" Assuming " the mold is 101% clean , lightly soot the cavities with a butane lighter. Use HOT clean alloy, it should cast some nice bullets ? ?

Ben

[HeavyMetal]

OK in this 7 seconds before the sprue goes from shiney to grey is the sprue puddle actually in a liquid state?

By this I mean if you tip the mold will the sprue run off the mold?

If not you can still be casting to cold on the sprue plate itself and everything hardens before you get fillout in the cavity.

Next time you cast you need to have this mold hot enough that you can run the puddle on the sprue plate around like a marble on top of the plate!

Then you'll get the fillout you want!

[trcuda]

Thanks guys,

Will try it again in the AM. Do I need to continually run this hot or just to "break in" this mold?

Thanks,
Tim

[happy7]

Be careful you don't get the mold too hot or it can warp because the alignment pins are soooo tight (was told Bull Plate is not an approved lubricant), and if it does warp it is not covered under warranty. I know this to be true. I have never warped a Lee mold and always get good fillout, but I did warp my only LBT mold for precisely this reason. I could never get it to fill out. After about three hours of frustration and progressively increasing heat till I finally cranked the pot wide open there was light on the ends. Waste of a lot of money. Like using a hundred dollar bill and change for flux.

[sargenv]

I get the same lines in my boolits when the mold is cold, but after about the 6th cast I start getting boolits with no lines and I also get to a point where the mold is too hot... but like someone said, frosty boolits shoot well too. My LBT is an awsome creation, and Initially I tried that butane lighter trick and actually ran into more trouble doing things that way than having them absolutely clean and very warmed up.

[Bret4207]

If that was a Lee mould you'd have a dozen replies telling you it's junk to start with.

You need to get the MOULD hotter. Clean it real good, get the alloy temp up and start casting fast. Read the stickies ob "The Bruce B Speed Casting Method" for some ideas. I have a 90 gr .268 and it's a bear to get hot enough to cast good boolits.

[Pat I.]

Get your melt up to about 780 degrees and use a ladle. Are you just filling the sprue plate or are you pouring it at the rear and letting it run off the front like the directions suggest? I have quite a few LBT moulds and have never had a problem with fill out or warping.

Keep them lubed like the directions say, hold the mould in the melt until a bit of mould lube starts smoking when touched to the outside of the mould somewhere and the things will throw good bullets and last forever. I understand not wanting to dirty up the mould by having melted mould lube all over it but it's the inside that counts and mine look like hell on the outside.

I think people should really get over comparing Lee and LBT moulds because they're both aluminum. An RG and a Freedom Arms are both steel guns and a Rolls Royce and a Yugo are both steel cars but I don't think there's a comparison in either quality or longevity.

[HeavyMetal]

Molds are like guns: Each is a rule unto itself!

My suggestions are to get you dropping a good boolit, from there it's really up to you to decide what the mold will and won't tolerate.

I also believe even aluminum molds need a little break in but not to the degree of iron molds.

In the end you shouild be able to run about 725 to 750 and dip the sprue plate each time you cast to keep the temp up. Again your mold will tell you what works.

Even if this is a 2 cavity mold your not going to set records for production, so don't try! I learned this lesson, again, when I started casting HP's a month or so ago.

The goal is to get one good boolit not 100 "iffy" ones.

[Dan Cash]

More heat on the melt, hotter moulds, more tin in the melt. My melt will flame wax flux in one or two seconds, the mould blocks (LBT) are heated on a burner for 3 minutes and melt is 20:1. No problems, Cast fast, make lots of bullets.

[trcuda]

Well, round 4 is in the books :-)

I think I am getting closer to having this mould figured out!

I ran my melt up to 780 and preheated the mould as Heavymetal suggested. The sprue would stay liquid for about 7 seconds. No more lines in the nose. New problem now. On about half the bullets there is a small spot on the last groove/boolit body that does not fill out. Not a very big spot, about .050" to .075 across but fairly deep. Not in the same spot on every boolit. The spot that is not filled out has a decidedly more frosted look that the rest of the boolit too.


I was not dipping the sprue plate for every pour and I noticed the mould cooling off as I cast. Next time I will be sure to dip the plate every or every other pour.

Thanks,
Tim

[outdoorfan]

With my LBT's, I put the mold in the melt to get it hot enough that the sprue stays liquid for 10+ seconds. Then good boolits are just around the corner. I noticed that my .310 mold wants to throw a wrinkle in one of the cavities unless I give it a nice long pour. Then there's very few wrinkles. Keeping it up to temperature isn't hard if you just cast at a good cadence and keep that alloy hot. I don't dip mine into the pot at all, once I've gotten going, unless I stop to do something else. The .22 mold is a different story. That one I do have to occasionally have to put the in the pot.

[chevyiron420]

i have went thru the very same thing with either my NEI or LBT mold. i dont remember which, but its the one with the goofy sprue plate. trying to use enough heat to get the wrinkles out brought me to missing parts of the bands with heavy frosting in the same spot. every body here tryed to help me, but to no avail. finaly i started pouring just one hole with a ladle and got a few boolits to shoot and put the thing away. i think if it had a conventional sprue plate i could ladle with it pretty well.

[GLynn41]

I have only had two LBT s but found--and veral said to me-- more volume in the lead flow-- so I made a ss dipper out of some of my wifes cook wear-- tht helped me --the RCBS dipper with the sprue hole opened up worked too heat and volume- alloy

[anachronism]

You are describing exactly what I'm going through with my 2 new LBT moulds. My wounds are self-inflicted. Verals instructions say to heat the new mould, then touch the lube stick to the pins momentarily before beginning casting. Momentarily. Not in two for three different clock positions around the pin. If a little is good, more is better, right? Except that I fouled the adjacent cavities with beeswax. I'm still trying to get it all out! I'm hoping to have enough time tonight to try heating the moulds & wiping them out again. I can't even see the wax, but I can feel it in the cavities.

[HeavyMetal]

Sounds like your getting closer!

One more suggestion for the new problem: Take a magnifiying glass and check the top of the mold at the casting / parting line. This will be the area under the sprue plate.

Many times if you take and lightly bevel the part of the mold you can add a vent line directly under the sprue plate and it helps with fill out.

Be aware I do mean lightly! You should barely be able to see it with the naked eye.

Do this before the next casting session and dip that sprue plate every casting!

[Dale53]

I have two LBT moulds. One is a heavy bullet for the 40/65 BPCR and the other is a recent acquisition for a 240 gr .431 WFN. BOTH of them cast extremely well. Both of them are four cavity moulds.

Getting ANY mould clean before you start is often the key to success.

I DO NOT like Veral's lube stick. It is entirely too easy to get the wax in a cavity and it is a REAL pain to get it out. You might try the toothpaste on a bullet (drill a bullet base from the problem cavity, insert a screw then lightly spin it with toothpaste). Then rinse carefully in hot water. Hopefully, that will clear it out.

I am a BIG fan of the Bullshop Sprue Plate lube. If you get a bit in a cavity it is relatively easy to clear.

The stamped sheet metal sprue plate works VERY well. It IS, however, a bit tender. If you drop the mould, be prepared to straighten the sprue plate (not an easy task).

FWIW
Dale53

[trcuda]

Thanks for all the help and support. I think that I am getting close and hopefully by the end of my next casting session I will have it more or less figured out.

Tim

[anachronism]

If you do have wax in the cavity, you may need to boil the mould to get rid of it. I'm still working on mine.

[Dan Cash]

:bigsmyl2:
Thanks for all the help and support. I think that I am getting close and hopefully by the end of my next casting session I will have it more or less figured out.

Tim


Them things ain't never gonna work. Send them to me and I will give you salvage price.:bigsmyl2:

[theperfessor]

Don't have any LBT molds but I use Bullplate on ALL my molds, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Saeco, H &G, etc.

It makes every one of them work better.

[trcuda]

I am using bullplate on all my other moulds but decided to use LBTs mould lube until I get everything figured out then try switching to the bullplate.

Dan,

Salvage price may seem pretty good if things dont improve soon :wink:

Tim

[Maven]

trc, I have several LBT molds and find that some of them don't need smoking to cast well. (You learn this by trial & error.) What works for me is (1) loosening the sprue plate screw slightly for better venting; (2) casting at 800 deg. F until I get perfect CB's, then lowering the temp. to ~775 deg. F; (3) using a ladle to get what Veral Smith called a "controlled swirl" in each cavity. Although I haven't done it, I wonder whether the CB bases would fill out better if the holes in the sprue plate were carefully enlarged?

[Dan Cash]

"Although I haven't done it, I wonder whether the CB bases would fill out better if the holes in the sprue plate were carefully enlarged? "

I use a RCBS ladle with my LBT moulds. I have reamed the hole to 3/16th and slit the top of the pour pipe with a Dremmel tool and diamond blade. The slit runs about half the way up the pipe, top side only. The results with all my moulds seems about the same as the trenched out sprue plate some custom mould maker offers. I get super fill out on big bullets and on stuff as small as .308.

[James C. Snodgrass]

I don't have any LBT's yet . But a pal of mine just got a new one a little while back and He said that He opened the holes up a couple of # bit sizes and it fills out fine now . James

[MtGun44]

I don't care if Bull Plate lube is an approve lube or not. It is the best lube, bar none that
I have ever used on a mold. Not using it is needlessly causing yourself problems, even damage
to the top of the mold or sprue plate in extreme cases.

Buy and use Bull Plate lube ( link at bottom to Bull Shop) - I have no connection to the
Bull Shop except as a very satisfied and convinced customer.

Bill

[StrawHat]

I do not have an LBT mold nor do I recall ever having used one but could the incomplete fillout issue be caused by poor venting?

[Dale53]

I have cast with a number of LBT moulds. They are pretty much custom quality moulds and the details (like proper venting, etc) have been worked out long ago. No disrecpect to the poster, but it almost certainly is an operator error. We ALL have a learning curve and it sounds like he is nearly there - just not quite.

On the other hand, while I have been casting seriously for over fifty years (nearer sixty) occasionally, I find a mould that SUDDENLY decides to be contankerous. Sometimes, just quitting for a bit and going back later seems to "fix" what ails it. Most mould problems can be easily handled with experience but sometimes, it seems to be "Voodoo"...

FWIW
Dale53

[fourarmed]

As James mentioned, my new one refused to fill, even with my bottom pour pot as hot as it would go, and with all the other cast boolit voodoo tricks. Took the fill holes up to 1/8" and the problems all went away.

[MtGun44]

Fourarmed,

Good point. I have not had problems with my LBT molds, but certainly too small a fill can
slow things down too much. Then you need hotter metal to keep it liquid long enough to
fill out properly.

Bill

[trcuda]

Thanks for all the help and ideas. I have the 6.5 LBT mold working OK now as long as I keep the temps up around 750. I still get about 1/3 cull rate due to poor fill out. I broke out the 44 mold that I picked up at the same time and it casts much better. I did have some issues with it too though. The sprue plate was way too loose on it and due to the design of the sprue bolt could not be tightened. LBT uses a shoulder bolt with no set screw to attach the plate! I had to buy a couple more spring washers to get tension on the plate. Overall I have to say I am somewhat disappointed with what I got from a supposedly top end custom mold maker. Maybe that is why these were on his sale page :-).

Tim

Edited to add that I plan to try them one more session and if I still have problems with fill out I will open up the holes slightly.

[fourarmed]

Tim, I think you will have to open them up. One third culls is unacceptable. Life's too short, and if you are culling that many, you are probably keeping ones that aren't perfect. I think Veral intentionally makes the fill holes small for two reasons: Ladle casters don't need the large fill holes because they get higher pressure in the cavities, and the smaller the sprue cut, the less liklihood of unbalancing the boolit. Try removing the plate and drilling the holes with the smallest bit you have that won't go in them. Remove the burrs on the bottom of the plate by rubbing it on a piece of fine emery cloth on a hard, flat surface. I guarantee the cull rate will go down.

[MtGun44]

The finger spring should hold the sprue plate, you should not have the bolt tight.

Is your finger spring broken off?

As to the fill out, I'd scrub the cavity good with Comet and an old toothbrush to make sure
it is really clean. Easy and very cheap, works great for me.

Bill

[anachronism]

I ended up cleaning mine with acetone, which does remove wax. It does require 800 degree alloy temps, & a ladle, but it's working fine now.

[JIMinPHX]

Geeze, it sounds like either too cold, stuff in the chamber, or poor venting. All three seem unlikely at this point because of what has already been posted, but maybe if you post a few close up pictures of the blocks, somebody here might notice something.

At this point, I'd lean towards poor venting, if it wasn't such a trusted brand. Have you contacted LBT for their take on your situation?

[trcuda]

The finger spring should hold the sprue plate, you should not have the bolt tight.

Is your finger spring broken off?

As to the fill out, I'd scrub the cavity good with Comet and an old toothbrush to make sure
it is really clean. Easy and very cheap, works great for me.

Bill

Tried scrubbing with Comet this AM. Pot is warming as I type.

No, my finger spring is fine but it is a 4 cav mold and the front boolits were fine but the back two have terrible flashing without adding an extra spring washer.

Tim

[Calamity Jake]

You have been given a lot of good advice but no one has said anything about venting.
In my 30+ years of casting I have found that the next thing to check and correct after cleanlyness, is venting, so if you still have 33% reject rate you might look that over.

[MtGun44]

All my LBTs are double cavity, so I can't comment on the effectiveness of the
spring finger with a 4 cav. Hope the comet scrub solves it for you. One of
my used LBTs came with a broken spring finger, and I got a long roll pin and
made a new one.

Bill