Best Smiffy Book for 1911s

[sundog]

suggestions? It's time to dress one up a little and kinda thinking I'll do this'un myself. In case it makes any difference, 45 acp.

[HeavyMetal]

Khunhaussen's book on the 1911 is best for mechanical stuff.

[scrapcan]

sundog,

what is it you want to do to it? I did a bit of upgrade to an early auto ordinance that I shoot alot.

Kuhnhasen is a good set to have, but it may not cover everything on the trickingout front.

I have a set of sear/hammer pins to check angles and a grip safety install jig. Let me know if interested. I also have a magazine lip forming tool that was built on plans in one of the gunsmithing books.

Let us know hat you want to do and I will bet we can get you all the help you need.

[sundog]

HM confirmed my idea for the Kuhnhausen books, so they are ordered.

Manleyjt, oddly enough I have an AO that I thought I would give a go - a little 'cleaning up', to see if I can get it shoot better. Maybe some parts changing and fitting, that sort of stuff. A learning platform, so to speak. I can do anything I want to it, within reason. Once I get a comfort level with it, who knows. It will also give me an idea of any special tools I might need and how they are used. I've shot 1911s for years, but now it's time to learn why they work so well.

[scrapcan]

Sundog,

if you want the tools I have send me a pm and I will send them to you. I will look to see what make the safety fitting jig is, I think it is a wilson. the mentioned tools were given to me by a good friend who said thake them and pass them along to the next guy when done.

I changed the main spring housing to a flat style and like it much better than the arched. The arched could be passed along.

The one thing I would like to do is fit a Kart barrel to mine. I have the original barrel and have fit a sprinfield barrel to it, but would like to try the Kart Easy fit.

[Bret4207]

On barrel fitting- I don;t have much experience with 1911's. During my youth in Dad's gun shop a 1991 was "exotic"!!! Shows you how times have changed. I have the Kuhnhausen book, but have a question. My Ed Brown barrel keeps the gun from going all the way into battery. It'll fire but it's a few thousands out from fully in battery, which makes the safety hard to work. I know this is a lug/hood related issue, but just where do I remove the metal? Near as I can tell I need to remove a frog hair from the front of the barrel lugs to let it seat in the lugs in the hood. Does that sound right?

Not that I'll ever get around to fixing it......

[HeavyMetal]

Brett:
Before you do anything with the locking lugs take a caliper to the slide and barrel.

You want to measure from the front of the ejection port to the bac where the hood of the barrel buts agains the slide.

Then check the barrel from the back "edge" of the last locking lug to the hood end of the barrel. These two must fit together perfectly, in theory!

Most barrels are a little short on the hood to get them to lock up when the gun gets dirty and I think yours may just need a little "polishing" on the hood to get it to close right.

The Kunhussen book has a section on hood fitting check it out before you touch metal!

[scrapcan]

You might also check the section on slide stop pin fitting or link fitting. sometimes the under lug ramp may not be the correct shape for full rotation of the link and pin. This could be the issue depending on the length of link that is installed. A short link may require fitting of the lug ramp, a too long link could cause issues with going into full battery also.

It is more likely a hood fit issue, but you just never know till you look it over.

[sundog]

Manleyjt, thank you for the kind offer. That's what I like about this place - folks heppin' folks. I may just take you up on it. If so, I'll PM you. Let me get my books in and take a looksee first.

[scrapcan]

Sundog,

anytime they are just holding the bottom of the drawer down.

[Bret4207]

Thanks fellas. I'll do some measuring, if I ever get time!

[sundog]

Both books came in from Brownells a couple days ago. Confidence level already up. I like hand tools and do a lot of stuff by hand. Files, rasps, stones, HAND tools, etc. Fitting parts and pieces is an art form and takes patience, and tenacity,..., and time. I think that I am going to enjoy this. These books look super! On line order system at Brownells works just fine.

[StarMetal]

Thanks fellas. I'll do some measuring, if I ever get time!

Bret,

The first thing you do is fit the barrel to the slide, that includes the barrel bushing. When she locks up just fine, or the way you want it, then you move on to fitting the bottom lug to the slide stop pin. There is a took for this and it looks like the crank hand off the pencil sharpeners when we were in school. It fits through the slide stop pin hole and it has a cutter centered there in the frame to cut the correct profile to the bottom lug. What you do is put your slide on and have it pulled back some and insert this tool. Then you press forward on the slide and that bottom lug will contact the cutter on that tool. You rotate the tool cutting material away and you watch you slide slowly ease forward and you quit cutting when the slide is in the correct position. Unless you worked on the upper locking lugs to get a deeper engagement into the female grooves in the slide you won't need to worry about a longer link. If you did you'll need a longer link. Fitting the link is trial and error sort of. Install the link and swing it forward so it's bottom hole matches the partial curved cut on the bottom lug. If it matches perfectly you're good to go. You can eyeball this and see right away what is right or wrong. Sounds like a lot, but once you've done it there's noting to it. If you can't afford the tool nor borrow it you can use a round file of correct diameter and use a steady hand to cut the lug. There is a tool to hole the barrel up all the way into the locking recesses to cut that bottom lug, especially with the file.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Sundog,

Probable the number one thing to do to increase accuracy is install a match barrel. It's a little tricky fitting an oversized barrel if you've never done it. You can buy the Kart easy fit and boy they are easy to fit. In fact I bought one for my 9mm 1911 because I got it like for half price and it fitted up nice. Now I have a 9mm 1911 that will out shoot most tuned 45acp ones. The beaver tail, unless the hammer bites the web of your hand, isn't really needed. I'd say a good match barrel and good target sights for beginning.

Joe

[sundog]

Joe, got it, and thanks. btw, I still use the ole timey pencil shapeners with the hand crank.

[StarMetal]

Joe, got it, and thanks. btw, I still use the ole timey pencil shapeners with the hand crank.

Sundog,

got an old Boston pencil sharpener on my reloading bench. You know those things are hard to buy now a days.

Joe

[MtGun44]

Bret,

Look and see if the hood is hard on the breech face or super tight on one or both sides
before you take it down. If there is no hard fit on the hood when assembled, you need to
take the top off of the gun and check the fit of the bbl to the slide by itself. If it is not hard
on the hood and still is going up tight, start with knocking any sharp corners slightly off
of the barrel top locking lugs before you do any cutting on the lug faces.

If it fits with the top end off, you have either not enough cut off the curved bottom 'stop'
portion of the bbl bottom lugs where they bear on the slide stop or possibly too long a
link. This does not sound like a long link, as they usually force the bbl up, but can sometimes
do it too soon by a hair - not a high probability from what you describe. OTOH, changing
links is really easy to do and undo if it doesn't help (it is very low probability in this case).

Do some looking and checking and PM me and we can sort it out. No magic in there but
it is hard to put the steel back on (not that I have never done it, but it is a PITA).

Ken Hallock's .45 Auto Handbook is a good starting place. Probably hard to find nowdays
it was a small company, and I haven't seen Ken at the gunshows in a few years. His health
was deteriorating the last time we talked. Khunhausen is more detailed, not particularly better
where they both cover the same material. Ken taught me to do a proper trigger job on a
1911, and the right way to make it safe and durable.

http://www.gunshowbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/st_prod.html?p_prodid=GS337825&sid=6K10d5Pd

A very basic book, old school, looking from the point of working over an old milsurp pistol,
which was all there were for most folks in Ken's days. Not any competition for Khunhausen
as a detailed book, but there is real good info there, too. I'm surprised they still have some,
out of print for maybe 10-15 yrs, I'd guess. The price is pretty high for a smallish book.

Bill

[Bret4207]

The hood appears to be the issue. The link problem isn't a problem as I'm using a Dwyer Group Gripper- ie- a wedge system. I'll dig the gun out soon as I can and do some measuring.

[scrapcan]

Bret,
Goog to hear you think it may be the hood. That is pretty easy to measure if you have some narrow feeler guages or a set made for the purpose.

[StarMetal]

The hood appears to be the issue. The link problem isn't a problem as I'm using a Dwyer Group Gripper- ie- a wedge system. I'll dig the gun out soon as I can and do some measuring.

Bret,

Just marker pen up the hood edges ...all three....and work it a few times in the pistol...then pull apart and look see where it's rubbing. Then remove a little bit of metal, mark again, repeat process.

Another area over looked, especially with a new tight fitting bushing that you just fitted to the barrel is that the bush must be relieved on the bottom inside edge and the outside top end or the barrel will bind trying to go into battery.

Joe

[ddeaton]

Khunhaussen's book on the 1911 is best for mechanical stuff.

I have both his books and they leave a lot of details out. I am not saying I dont like the books, you just have to between the lines. I just got AGI's DVD Building the Ultimate 1911 .45 Auto 3 disc set. A little pricey, but it shows and tells all, leaves nothing out. He also goes over different types of parts and jigs, pros and cons of each. Good stuff.

I just purchased 2 Caspian frames up at Camp Perry last week. I am gathering parts to build them up and learn as I go. I currently have a Kart barrel in the one I shoot and just like stated above, it makes all the difference with accuracy.

[StarMetal]

It's not that factory barrels are total junk, because many are quite good in fact. It's that the factory doesn't hand fit the barrel to the slide with match grade tolerances. Lots of reasons why...one is time and money and another is guns that have to run under adverse conditions are less likely to do so with a tight barrel to slide fit.

Jim Clark Jr once told me over the phone the reason he didn't use Colt barrels for his pistol smithing was because Colt didn't sell extended barrels. What he was saying, and he did say this too in the conversation, that Colts barrels were just as good or even better then his own, but he needed the longer lengths to put muzzle brakes on. He talked me out of buying a match barrel for one of my Colts from him to me sending my barrel into him and he welded it up in the right places for me. I knew I knew how to fit it, but didn't have the proper welding equipment at that time. It turned out to be one of my better performing barrels too.

Joe

[JMax]

Bill Wilson's book is also excellent for reference for making modifications.

[robroy]

For a while after I graduated from the Pa Gunsmith School I worked there as an instructor assistant. One project I realy enjoyed was milling a 1911 to match the cutaways in the Kuhnhausen book. I ground the firing pin off short so some monkey couldn't fire a live round in the open chamber. Other than that the thing worked and was great for demonstrating the firing cycle of a 1911

[ddeaton]

For a while after I graduated from the Pa Gunsmith School I worked there as an instructor assistant. One project I realy enjoyed was milling a 1911 to match the cutaways in the Kuhnhausen book. I ground the firing pin off short so some monkey couldn't fire a live round in the open chamber. Other than that the thing worked and was great for demonstrating the firing cycle of a 1911


got any details of this? I would be interested in doing one

[robroy]

ddeaton I just used the pictures in the bookas a guide and cut using 1/4 and 3/8 end milld.

As I understand it Kuhnhausen wrote these books as training aids for smiths in his shop. To answer Sundog's question I havent got any experiencew with any of the other books. They probably have different perspectives to offer and I may be adding some of them to my library.

[Willbird]

HM confirmed my idea for the Kuhnhausen books, so they are ordered.

Manleyjt, oddly enough I have an AO that I thought I would give a go - a little 'cleaning up', to see if I can get it shoot better. Maybe some parts changing and fitting, that sort of stuff. A learning platform, so to speak. I can do anything I want to it, within reason. Once I get a comfort level with it, who knows. It will also give me an idea of any special tools I might need and how they are used. I've shot 1911s for years, but now it's time to learn why they work so well.

Ignore krankhausens theory on how the 1911 recoil operated action operates, most 1911 smiths say he is dead wrong in that area.

Bill

[1911Tuner]

Ignore krankhausens theory on how the 1911 recoil operated action operates, most 1911 smiths say he is dead wrong in that area.
Bill

If you're referring to JK's "Balanced Thrust Vector" description...you're correct.
He was dead wrong.

That description was in some of his early editions, but has been modified a little in later books. It's closer to reality, but still not quite there. I think he was trying to describe the bullet's effect on slide delay, and assumed that it worked like pulling a cork out of a bottle...but the slide has to move while the bullet is in transit.

Balanced thrust/force and motion can't co-exist within the same system. The result of balanced force is equilibrium. If either side of the action/reaction system is in motion, it's proof that the forces have become unbalanced.