Alcan primers

[acemedic13]

Anybody ever heard of/use Alcan primers? I just ran into a LOT of them. Somebody obviously sold all their reloading stuff or an estate sale occured. I went in and bought a massive box of odds and ends (the whole she-bang).

The box had a lot of curious stuff in it. Those primers, and some powder labeled bc-2 in a pink(might have been red in the day) can. Bullseye in the old squat cans and some unique in the old paper can. Any info would be great. Thanks.

[Johnch]

Many moons ago I used up the last of the Alcan primers
IMO if properly stored
They should be fine
Just start a little low
As I don't remember if they were a hot or mild primer

As for the powder
Same as the primers
IMO if properly stored
They should be fine

Are you sure the one powder isn't BLC-2 instead of BC-2 ?

John

[acemedic13]

Many moons ago I used up the last of the Alcan primers
IMO if properly stored
They should be fine
Just start a little low
As I don't remember if they were a hot or mild primer

As for the powder
Same as the primers
IMO if properly stored
They should be fine

Are you sure the one powder isn't BLC-2 instead of BC-2 ?

John

It was blc-2. I typoed that. Thanks for the info and the time for the post. I will heed the warning. Joel.....

[thebigmac]

i too fell into some alcan large pistol primers. The packages appear to have been kept in an ammo can. They look like new. Tried some in my .45 auto and they were no different from my winchesters...

[Pepe Ray]

IIRC:
Alcan's cups are slightly softer than most. Deformation shows up mostly when the pressures get near the top.
Pepe Ray

[lurch]

IIRC:
Alcan's cups are slightly softer than most. Deformation shows up mostly when the pressures get near the top.
Pepe Ray

Sounds like some old Herter's primers my Dad is using up and trying to get me to help. Very soft - the "ram" in an auto-prime flattens them out a good bit upon seating them. They seem to be a bit on the mild side as well.

[hiram]

I have Alcan primers I inhereited from my father. If memory seves me correctly, I think Alcan was a S&W product. not sure--I have to look at the box. If you want to know, reply and I'll open the primer vault.

[NoDakJak]

Sometime during the mid seventies I made a buy on Alcan Primers. There must have been seven or eight thousand small pistol and a couple thousand each of large pistol and large rifle primers. My 1911's gobbled up the LP,s in a couple months while the SP primers lasted until the early 1980s. Several years ago I found the final 100 Large Rifle primers lurking in a dark corner and used them. I found them to be very satisfatory and was sorry to see them go out of business. As Pepe Ray said, the cups were soft and every one that I loaded had the imprint of the machining marks from the primer seater on them. During the late seventies I had a tuneup and trigger job performed on my S&W Model 60 while using Alcan primed hadloads. It shot great! When I ran out of Alcan I switched to my old standby, CCI primers and got at least one misfire out of each chamber full. Those primers were hard and showed shallow firing pin indents. I finally installed a new factory mainspring and that partially cured the problem. A switch to Federal primers finally cured the problem and I have stuck with them or Winchester ever since. "IF" they have been stored properly the Alcans should be perfectly okay. Try them and see. Even if they work okay I would not personally use them for personal protection loads or for use against animals that bite back. Alcan made very good primers but since these must be thirty five or forty years old and stored under unknown conditions I would reserve these for practice and plinking loads. Hope this helps. Neil

[acemedic13]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will definately only use them for breaking paper.

I appreciate the offer to open the vault Hiram. If you get to it anytime soon, drop me a line on what you find out. I will shoot these suckers first, and save my good ,new primer stash for a rainy day. Take care all. Joel

[redneckdan]

I picked up 5k at $10 per k about 2 years ago. They were a company that was some how affiliated with smith and wesson. I did notice that the cups seem to be a mite bit softer. I'm using them up in my .45 ACP

[armyrat1970]

I have Alcan primers I inhereited from my father. If memory seves me correctly, I think Alcan was a S&W product. not sure--I have to look at the box. If you want to know, reply and I'll open the primer vault.

I purchased a couple hundred LP several months back from a local shop. From all I could find out Alcan was sold under the S&W logo, not as a part of S&W. It is a European, can't remember what country now, and were supposed to be very good primers and powders they produced. Think they stopped manufacturing in the late 60's or early 70's. They are in a white box with a large blue and red band across the top marked S&W in the blue and ALCAN in the red They are also marked as MAX-FIRE LARGE PISTOL PRIMERS. The info I have is that they should be treated as mag primers. Haven't used any yet but I will treat them as mag primers with a reduced charge. I paid $2.50 per hundred for mine a few months back.

[Rocky Raab]

Alcan primers and powders were the products of a guy who took umbrage at the then-current policy among ammo makers of not providing components for reloaders. He opened up shop by importing primers and powders (all shotgun at first) made by Bofors of Sweden. He operated out of Alton, Illinois.

When I was a 12-year-old trapshooter living 20 miles from there, my Dad and I made many trips, coming home with literally a pickup truck load of shot, powder and primers. Later, as mentioned, Alcan went into a marketing/distribution contract with Smith& Wesson. I have powder cans with the S&W label on them in my collection.

They eventually added rifle and handgun primers to their stock, but not rifle powders. When the Bofors plant burned down and was not rebuilt, that was the end of Alcan.

I think I have that story straight, unless someone can offer correction.

The primers themselves are considered to be quite hot, with soft cups. Don't substitute them blindly without reducing your regular load first.

[Huntducks]

I bought a slug of SP & LP Alcans and Herters 25 years ago paid like $2/1000 they work just fine punching paper and cans.

I did notice the Herters LP have some strange looking cup (metal)on them that does not fit all brass the Alcan SP fit all 38 brass that I have.

When my FIL passed away I got about 15000 > 209 shotshell I use these in my what I call my sh!! shells 1oz reclaimed shot cheap wads an old 16lb can of Red dot at 1100fps clays and cans don't know the diff.

[hiram]

I found the Alcan small p primers, and yes, the S&W logo is on the boxes.

[mpmarty]

I've still got eight hundred of a box of a thousand Alcan Large Rifle "Max Fire" primers. Box is yellow red and blue and S&W doesn't appear anywhere on the box.

[Hurricane]

BL-C(2) is a Hodgdon Powder Co. rifle powder. Hodgdon has loading data for his powders on line at www.hodgdon.com. BL-C(2) has a burn rate very close to Winchester 748. It will be a good powder for a wide variety of rifle cartridges.

[acemedic13]

I've still got eight hundred of a box of a thousand Alcan Large Rifle "Max Fire" primers. Box is yellow red and blue and S&W doesn't appear anywhere on the box.

S&W is not on any of mine. Thanks for sharing the stories guys. Interesting to learn all the in's and outs of this stuff. Joel

[AZ-Stew]

Rocky Raab is pretty close on the history, if I recall.

Huntducks: What species of duck is that in your avatar? I've never seen an antlered duck. Is that a Jack-a-Duck? Big sumb!tc#.

Regards,

Stew

[geargnasher]

AZStew, don't you know what that is? That's one of those Southern California Antlered Mud Hens, they corded off something like 400,000 acres of prime real estate to preserve them and they feed them on Obama's promises, that's how they get so big!

Gear

[armyrat1970]

S&W is not on any of mine. Thanks for sharing the stories guys. Interesting to learn all the in's and outs of this stuff. Joel

According to Rocky's history those must be some pretty old primers. I am pretty sure Alcan, once starting to market with S&W, did up until their demise. Which I am pretty sure was the late 60's or very early 70's. Yours and Martys has to pre date that hookup if neither have the S&W logo. If they look good you should have no problems with them though.
Treat them as mag primers for starts.

[armyrat1970]

Huntducks: What species of duck is that in your avatar? I've never seen an antlered duck. Is that a Jack-a-Duck? Big sumb!tc#.

Regards,

Stew

I wouldn't want to shoot one of them and it fall into the blind with me!!! Yikes!!!!!!

[Huntducks]

No that is what is known as a BULLDUCK very rare:bigsmyl2:

Guys Tule Elk 10x harder to draw the tag then the hunt + I had to use a big gun:veryconfu

[acemedic13]

You were'nt kiddin' about backing off the load with these.....I had to drop the load on the LP and SP for these things. They still hit like a hammer. The cups are pretty soft, and the charge seems high..... Hell....... I like em'! If I could get a few more thousand worth, I would.Well worth the dollar a box I paid for them... Thanks for the help. Joel

[armyrat1970]

You were'nt kiddin' about backing off the load with these.....I had to drop the load on the LR and SP for these things. They still hit like a hammer. The cups are pretty soft, and the charge seems high..... Hell....... I like em'! If I could get a few more thousand worth, I would.Well worth the dollar a box I paid for them... Thanks for the help. Joel

If you ever run across any again count yourself as very lucky.

[Leftoverdj]

Alcan must have been discontinued c. 1970. I bought a pile of both primers and powder as unwanted old stock in '74. Still have a hundred or so SP primers left. Every few years, I load up six to try. No misfires yet.

[Rocky Raab]

That timing is about right; 1970 or so for their closing. But I have primers even older than that, and they work just fine.

How many of you remember when primers came not just in large and small, but with a choice of flat or domed cups? You had to have priming stems for each, in both sizes! The oldest primers on my shelf are a box of 1,000 Western Cartridge Company 1 1/2 small pistol domed primers.

Edit to add: Western Cartridge Company acquired Winchester Repeating Arms Co in 1931, after which the name became Winchester-Western. My box of primers is labeled non-mercuric and non-corrosive, though. But they could still be from the late 40s.

[acemedic13]

Loaded a hundred 38 specials with Alcan primers, 3.7gr. of international clays, and a 158 gr. swc boolit. Great shooting round with not one misfire. Mild accurate load as well. Shot just at 1 inch from a bench off a bag at 50 feet out my old,ugly Mod-15 S&W. They opened up a little more from the same spot with the same round out of a snubby smith. All in all, they are great primers. The best part about them is that, I got a really cool history lesson in the process. Thanks for the posts guys. Take care. Joel

[armyrat1970]

That timing is about right; 1970 or so for their closing. But I have primers even older than that, and they work just fine.

How many of you remember when primers came not just in large and small, but with a choice of flat or domed cups? You had to have priming stems for each, in both sizes! The oldest primers on my shelf are a box of 1,000 Western Cartridge Company 1 1/2 small pistol domed primers.

Edit to add: Western Cartridge Company acquired Winchester Repeating Arms Co in 1931, after which the name became Winchester-Western. My box of primers is labeled non-mercuric and non-corrosive, though. But they could still be from the late 40s.

Well Rocky you got me there. I have not been handloading long enough to remember primers in flat or domed cups. You are and "Old Coot" ain't ya'?

I have a lot of cases in 223 with WCC headstamps and crimped primers. That is military, no?

[Rocky Raab]

I prefer "geezer" but I sure am! You might be interested to know that Herters was still offering domed primers and priming tools to fit them as late as the early 70s - but there probably are folks here who are too young to remember Herters!

Yes, the WCC headstamp is a carryover from the old days but other than company nostalgia, I don't know why.

[lurch]

but there probably are folks here who are too young to remember Herters!



I've been told that I cut teeth on some of their shotshells. I don't remember that, but I do remember a trip to their store in Waseca (sp?) MN many years ago when I was a youngin. They had a big stuffed polar bear just inside the door as I recall that I was pretty impressed with at the time.

[HORNET]

Rocky doesn't have to be all that old. I'm still working my way through some domed Win. 6-1/2 primers that I got at an estate sale and have most of a brick (700 left) of Herter's 6-1/2 Model Perfect primers that my uncle gave me a LONG time ago...Got a '72 Herters catalog, too, that I dig out when I want to do an inflation check.

[Rocky Raab]

Those would be Rem 6 1/2s, right? I don't remember offhand what number Win gave to their small rifle primers (5 1/2?) I do know that their large rifle size was 8 1/2 - 120, because I have some of those, too.

I pulled the handle on my first reloaded round in 1957. I was 10. Put new meaning to the term "boomer baby."

[HORNET]

Actually, the domed 6-1/2's are Winchester- Western K4002P Staynless Small Rifle Primers No. 6-1/2-116 (Lot# TL1L30) with the primers sitting on edge in the wooden trays. The box they were in also had some Winchester #120, Western #8-1/2, & Western #7 primers. I believe the only 5-1/2's I've seen were Remington Small Pistol magnum. Had a heck of a time trying to find my old domed primer seating punches.....

[R. Brower]

Still have the ALCAN Primers?
Wish to part with them?
Could use them in my Collection.
Thanks,
Rick

[R. Brower]

Still have the ALCAN Primers?

[15meter]

Still have the ALCAN Primers?
Wish to part with them?
Could use them in my Collection.
Thanks,
Rick


In the future, you may want to check the dates of the last post, in this case it was 12 years ago and I don't think most of the guys who posted in this thread have been on here in years.

I had some large rifle Alcans and some 209's that I loaded up during the house arrest last year. The rifle were labeled S&W, the 209's just Alcan.

Haven't shot all of them yet, but haven't had any failure to fire yet.

Only recent failure to fire I've had has been some large pistol magnum primers I deprimed and recycled into 30-06 cast loads ~ 1 out of a 100 doesn't go off.

I've got 700+ of the recycled primers, 7 duds out of 700 for plinking loads with primers I got for basically free is great shooting in these days of primers being made of unobtanium.

And for all the hand wringing about depriming live primers, until you've actual done it and figured out that your NOT going to blow up the shop or cause Earth's magnetic poles to flip, it's easy and no more dangerous than shoving them into the case in the first case.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just loaded 1000 rds of 9mm using Alcan Primers. Good Stuff ;)

[gwpercle]

I'm still using Alcan Primers ( and powder) bought during the 1970's .
The local gun shop was having a closeout and the primers and Alcan #5 powder was 1970 dirt cheap , I bought all I could carry and still have primers and powder that I use when a panic is on and nothing else is avaiable or I just want to hang on to my recent stuff .
All the primers go bang and the powder is still fresh smelling and good looking ... got my 1970's manuals for Data ...The 1970 Speer Manual has a lot of Alcan Data ...I've used it since 1970 so I just keep on keeping on .
Gary

[gwpercle]

Still have the ALCAN Primers?
Wish to part with them?
Could use them in my Collection.
Thanks,
Rick

I can send you an empty Alcan primer box for your collection ... when I'm done using up the primers, but I'm not parting with the primers .
Gary