Safety Issues

[burch]

I`m sure this has been brought up before but the wife has been hounding me about the safety of breathing and just being around the lead cooking. So where can I get/find information on the safe way to cast ? My Lyman book has no information on this, kinda odd I thought.

Burch

[mpmarty]

You can go online to any mold manufacturer and read their warnings.
Basically if you are over 40 you inhaled more lead from gasoline engine exhaust than you ever will smelting safely.

Wash your hands after casting / smelting.
Don't eat or smoke while casting / smelting.
Cast / smelt in a well ventilated area.

[Sprue]

The Search feature is your friend.

Its all right here • (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=16442&highlight=lead+safety)

[lurch]

Common practice (at least where I pretend to work) is to ensure all soldering takes place at less than 900F. That ensures that no lead vapors are in the area where the tech's are working that are of any consequence. If there were absolutely any possibility that lead vapors were present in sufficient concentration to harm somebody working with a soldering iron at that temperature for an entire career, we'd be restricted even further. Our safety folks are completely anal about such stuff. Unless you run hotter than that and spend an eternity by your pot, you'll be fine. Just don't drink, eat, smoke, etc. - anything where you bring your hands to your mouth.

Looking at the chart below, the vapor pressure of lead is tiny at the temperatures where we cast. Unless you get it really hot, I don't think there is much cause for worry about the vapor. You have to get to about 600C (really hot) just to get to 0.000001 atmospheres of vapor pressure. At that pressure, the amount of lead vapor given off is still going to be really small.

http://www.powerstream.com/z/vapor-press1-big.png

(I didn't insert the image since it makes the page extremely wide. Just check it out in a separate window/tab.)

[snaggdit]

Yep. What you smell when the lead is liquid is other impurities. There is really no lead that you will be inhaling. It is on your hands that you need to be carefull about. It is a pain to keep washing my hands before I smoke while taking a break but that is really all you need to do.

[rhead]

Common practice (at least where I pretend to work) is to ensure all soldering takes place at less than 900F. That ensures that no lead vapors are in the area where the tech's are working that are of any consequence. If there were absolutely any possibility that lead vapors were present in sufficient concentration to harm somebody working with a soldering iron at that temperature for an entire career, we'd be restricted even further. Our safety folks are completely anal about such stuff. Unless you run hotter than that and spend an eternity by your pot, you'll be fine. Just don't drink, eat, smoke, etc. - anything where you bring your hands to your mouth.

Looking at the chart below, the vapor pressure of lead is tiny at the temperatures where we cast. Unless you get it really hot, I don't think there is much cause for worry about the vapor. You have to get to about 600C (really hot) just to get to 0.000001 atmospheres of vapor pressure. At that pressure, the amount of lead vapor given off is still going to be really small.

http://www.powerstream.com/z/vapor-press1-big.png






(I didn't insert the image since it makes the page extremely wide. Just check it out in a separate window/tab.)




And even that tiny concentration of lead vapor is measured at the surface oft the melt. It decreases quickly as the distance increases. The lead molecule lacks sufficient dipole moment to cause it to dissipate through the air the way water vapor does.

[1Shirt]

I look at it as a "we are all going to die of something" propostion. That said as a former safety professional, I believe, that common sense needs to be applied in all stiuations where any potential of danger is involved. Have been casting for close to 50 years, and have been tested fairly regularly for lead, and have always come up with no problem. I have always cast where there was open space, preferably in my garage, with the door open when temps allowed, and with a fan at my back.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[armyrat1970]

I`m sure this has been brought up before but the wife has been hounding me about the safety of breathing and just being around the lead cooking. So where can I get/find information on the safe way to cast ? My Lyman book has no information on this, kinda odd I thought.

Burch

Always try to stand up wind from your smelting or casting pot. Never smelt or cast indoors with no ventilation. Wear gloves to keep the lead off your hands. If you smoke, take the glove off with the other gloved hand before lighting up. Same if you decide to drink a fews suds. Keep the drink away from the melt. Inside. Wash your hands completly after casting before eating or doing anything else like playing with the grandkids.

[GabbyM]

Dont use a vacum to clean up your area. Wet towels and mops for the floor. Vacum cleaner is your worst enemy around lead dust.

[cajun shooter]

Use a fan behind you and one that is taking out the fumes above your casting bench. I bought a product that made my wife feel a little bit easier about the casting. I'm sure that other products work but this was for her. It's called lead away and is a carton with treated wipes that remove heavy leads and other toxic metals from your body. Just having them on my bench made her feel better.

[Pepe Ray]

It just goes to show you how complete and extended the "brain washing" and propaganda program is.
From idiot proof pill bottles to lead poisoning lies. At least two generations have had their brains turned to mush.
And then we were "saved" by ---fill in the blank---

Oh well,,,,,
Pepe Ray

[okotoks]

If you are concerned it is simple enough to get your blood lead checked, if the local EPA calls before your doctor it's too high. I had mine tested and it was slightly higher than normal. People that shoot exclusively in indoor ranges, that allow lead bullets, have more problems with high lead counts.

I use a big fan and wear a set of welders gloves dedicated to casting, and I don't eat or smoke (anytime) while casting. I am more "health concerned" about smelting wheel weights than casting bullets, as there are more irritants & carcinogens in that noxious smoke. While gradually increasing systemic lead levels slowly make you dumb, that smoke is acutely hazardous. Smelting outside I still use a big fan. I cast in the garage/barn directly under the open door or preferably, outside if weather permits.

Younger children are MUCH more susceptible to lead poisoning, so the residual dust issue is very significant.

[outdoorfan]

It just goes to show you how complete and extended the "brain washing" and propaganda program is.
From idiot proof pill bottles to lead poisoning lies. At least two generations have had their brains turned to mush.
And then we were "saved" by ---fill in the blank---

Oh well,,,,,
Pepe Ray


I wholeheartedly agree with that. I live in a side-by-side townhouse (renting), and I share one common wall with my neighbors. She's an RN. Long story short, I got my lead smelting and casting shut down a few days ago because they complained to the landlord about it. They thought they were being poisoned for sure. Even after explaining to them (and the landlord) my procedures and how they were not getting any lead poisoning, they still weren't convinced.

So, I called up a buddy of mine who's a major redneck, and I get to use his garage. :-D

[burch]

I`ll have to let my wife read these replies because when my buddy and me do our casting it`s in the garage at the opening, with a fan behind us and with gloves on. I can`t cast without gloves anyhow because I use a turkey cooker and an open top pot and my casting ladle doesn`t have a wood handle. Now, I do smoke and have few cold ones while casting but I always smoke and drink away from the melt just because i`m terrified of something dripping in it. We always use common since when we`re casting. You`d have to be a dang fool to not be careful anyhow because once you make that first mistake and wind up with 1st degree burns you`ll learn how it`s done then.

[outdoorfan]

wind up with 1st degree burns you`ll learn how it`s done then.

1st degree? Try 2nd or 3rd degree with molten lead.

[dubber123]

Yor best bet is: Cast how you will have the most fun. Get a lead test yearly, they aren't that expensive. I probably drink enough beer in a casting session to float a battleship, (Well at least a small canoe). I have my lead tested yearly, and it's always within safe limits. Being scared of the small stuff will kill you from ulcers first...

[mdi]

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx Interesting article about lead poisoning and venison. I googled CDC Lead Poisoning Report, but the only hits were mostly about children and lead poisoning. I have read that metalic lead is not toxic, but lead oxide and lead vapors are a problem. I know of only one person with elevated lead in their blood; he is a welder that had welded on painted surfaces for 25+ years. No shooter, or bullet caster that I have ever met or heard about had had elevated lead levels in their blood.

[armyrat1970]

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx Interesting article about lead poising and venison. I googled CDC Lead Poisoning Report, but the only hits were mostly about children and lead poisoning. I have read that metalic lead is not toxic, but lead oxide and lead vapors are a problem. I know of only one person with elevated lead in their blood; he is a welder that had welded on painted surfaces for 25+ years. No shooter, or bullet caster that I have ever met or heard about had had elevated lead levels in their blood.

It may never present a problem. But since we practice, or should practice, safe methods when handloading, why not take some of these extra measures that is of no inconvenience and MAY help reduce the risk of any health problems. If there is a risk that can be avoided, avoid it. My grandsons like to watch me cast outside on the patio while inside looking through my patio doors. When I come in to sort my keepers from the rejects I let them handle them and ask their opinion. When I go out to cast more I tell them to go wash their hands because you never know what's going into their little mouths at anytime.
Maybe brainwashed on the potential hazards of lead but I will take as many chances as I can to avoid over-exposure. We might be brained washed as to the hazards of smoking and drinking as there are many that have lived many long years doing both or one or the other. Drinking to much coffee. Eating to many eggs. Eating to much sugar or salt. I've heard a lot of things I thought were foolish in my lifetime but I believe there is a health threat in over-exposure to lead.

[Bret4207]

Let your wife know she's in much greater danger from the vapors released from your carpet, the particle board in your house, from various household cleaners and of course her cosmetics. If she knew about some of the stuff used in her cosmetics, shampoo's and various cleaners she'd not worry about non-existent lead danger. In truth we're all in more danger from the garbage in many imported foods than from lead.

[outdoorfan]

Yes, and most of the foods people buy at the store are toxic (carcinogenic) to our bodies because of all the crap (preservatives, synthetic sugars, etc.) that are put in them. City water with chlorine and flouride, toxic. Many vaccinations have mercury in them. That's a proven fact. Then if you get the disease (cancer) that these things cause, you get hit with more crap (chemo, radiation), and then you will probably die anyway, only an even more miserable death. Unfortunately, that's just the way our SYSTEM works. And there's other things too, but we get all bent out of shape over lead because those other toxic substances (television, media) has conditioned us to think that just looking at lead will kill us.

[mdi]

I did a little more looking and found this article about lead poisoning; http://www.nssf.org/BP2/SpecialBP.htm

armyrat, I agree with you whole heartedly. My post was only to point out the Politically Correct Lead Poisoning Panic. Most of the laws against lead (at least in California) are based on fear and not facts. Did you know CA banned lead wheel weights because they fly off wheels (evil little things, eh!) and are ground up into dust that through rains manages to seep into the underground water and poison everyone in the state! Even though I haven't read an unbiased study, or any study, lead wheel weights are illegal in CA. North Dakota and Minnisota tossed out thousands of pounds of Venison in food banks for the poor because of the "Lead Poison Scare", even though the CDC reported no case of lead poisoning EVER from eating venison.

Safety when handling/casting lead; OF COURSE! Join in on the "Great Lead Poisoning Panic" no way![smilie=w:

[outdoorfan]

North Dakota and Minnisota tossed out thousands of pounds of Venison in food banks for the poor because of the "Lead Poison Scare", even though the CDC reported no case of lead poisoning EVER from eating venison.
smilie=w:

I live in Minnesota, and I am embarassed to hear that.

[armyrat1970]

I did a little more looking and found this article about lead poisoning; http://www.nssf.org/BP2/SpecialBP.htm

armyrat, I agree with you whole heartedly. My post was only to point out the Politically Correct Lead Poisoning Panic. Most of the laws against lead (at least in California) are based on fear and not facts. Did you know CA banned lead wheel weights because they fly off wheels (evil little things, eh!) and are ground up into dust that through rains manages to seep into the underground water and poison everyone in the state! Even though I haven't read an unbiased study, or any study, lead wheel weights are illegal in CA. North Dakota and Minnisota tossed out thousands of pounds of Venison in food banks for the poor because of the "Lead Poison Scare", even though the CDC reported no case of lead poisoning EVER from eating venison.

Safety when handling/casting lead; OF COURSE! Join in on the "Great Lead Poisoning Panic" no way![smilie=w:

That's a good read but they are only talking about eating game harvested with lead boolits, not the exposure you may get from the casting we do. I never believed in to high of lead amounts in an animal you killed to eat because you used lead boolits. I haven't hunted ducks in many years but remember they banned lead shot and now we have to use steel which in my opinion is a crock!
Doesn't work as well as lead shot.
No offense mdi but a lot of strange ideas come out of CA.
No Panic, just Cautious.:bigsmyl2:

[Dollar Bill]

The most dangerous substances are in the slag that gets skimmed of. That's what you really need to be carefull of.