A bit of history .45-70 short range / armory / shot cartridges

[w30wcf]

Early original .45-70 cartridges
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/45-70shortrangectgsjpg.jpg

All black powder.
L to R
.45-140-5........ rb / 5 grs b.p. loose in case
.45-240-20.......240 gr. bullet / 20 grs. b.p. loose in case
.45-70 Shot Cartridge

w30wcf

[BPCR Bill]

Hmmm, I guess that kind of shoots the theory of chamber ringing and load density in the butt. As I suspected.

Regards,
Bill

[docone31]

Where did you find those?
That is great!

[montana_charlie]

Hmmm, I guess that kind of shoots the theory of chamber ringing and load density in the butt. As I suspected. Twenty grains of black powder is half of a .44-40 charge...a pipsqueak load in a .45/70.
There is just not enough oomph there to hurt a barrel that will withstand a .45/70 normal load...especially with an itty-bitty 240 grain bullet acting as the 'stopper'.

It's like blowing up a cherry bomb in a boxcar...no big deal.

The 'no air space' dogma may be unfounded, but this story doesn't prove it to be balderdash.

CM

[dromia]

"If a sportsman must use fine grained powder in an "Express rifle" no larger grain being procurable, he runs the risk of possible detonation of the charge and the possibility of a burst; but the risk may be lessened by reducing the charge, leaving the powder loose in the cartridge. This method is usually practised in Germany when using a .450" Express rifle at small deer. The additional air space behind the projectile lessens the pressure, and , of course, the velocity which is the object sought"

Source The Gun and its Development by W. W. Greener. 9th Edition. New Orchard Editions Ltd 1988. USBN 185079-015-9

The italics are in the text, not my additions.

[KCSO]

According to S/A 1880 gallery loads were 10 grains later droppped to 7 grains LOOSE IN THE CASE and a round ball from a Civil War ctg. seated in the mouth of the case. Soldiers were instructed to smear grease over the ball when it was loaded.

[w30wcf]

docone31,
I got them from a cartridge collector / dealer several years ago.

KCSO,
Thank you for that info. I know that U.M.C. advertised a .45 Colt gallery load of 7 grs. of black powder in their 1890 catalog.

w30wcf