Lubes & Cast Rifle Boolits...

[Edward429451]

Been casting for handguns for a long time but have recently started casting for the 45/70 and another day or two will see me casting for the 30/30, .308 & 30/06.

I recently switched to a hard lube (RR) and it's great as far as the boolits aren't tacky to handle. I admit to not caring about leading in my revolvers b/c they shoot real good and it isn't that big of a deal for me to clean out the short barrels..Not so with the 45/70, it was a pain in the butt to clean out. I did go to .460 for the the Marlin but I haven't shot any of them yet as I wanted to use up all the .457 ones that I had on hand...

Soo, what're you guys using for lube on your rifle bullets? Anybody using the hard lubes with success or is there a better alternative?

What should I use on the .30 (311291)? 45/70?

Thanks.

[AnthonyB]

Edward, I use homemade Felix's World Famous Lube on almost everything and am very happy with it. I have combined the FWFL with about 25% Saeco green hard lube to make a little harder lube. Haven't really tested it in rifles yet, but the handguns can't tell the difference. Tony

[AnthonyB]

Forgot to add, if your 1895 is like mine the best thing to do with those .457 boolits is melt them down. My rifle likes .460, and I'd go bigger if I could. Tony

[David R]

I use the "red stuff" or Carnuba Blend from LAR45 on this forum. He also goes by white label lube or some thing like that. He always has some on Ebay under the "molds" section. I buy it from him and get awesome service along with awesome performance. He sells 50/50 NRA lube too. I blend 2 sticks carnuba and one 50/50 for handguns and light rifle loads.

Send him a PM or Email.

[Dale53]

I don't claim to be an expert on lubes. Years ago, when the NRA alox mix was perfected, I started using that. It worked extremely well for me in rifles and pistol and revolver use and I still use it for that purpose. When I started BPCR-Silhouette use, I started with SPG. It worked well but was expensive. A friend introduced me to Emmert's home mix for black powder and schuetzen use. It worked just like SPG and cost just a fraction so that became my BP and Schuetzen lube.

There may be better lubes out there but both of those "for the purpose" lubes work so well for me that I can't see changing. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Both of those are simple to prepare and work so well that I am a happy camper.

YMMV

Dale53

[Junior1942]

First, my max velocity is around 1900 fps, and my alloy is air cooled ww. I use either Lee Liquid Alox, double coat, or a homemade lube I call "411" or "PCF" which means Pinko Commie ***. It's pink. It's simply by volume 4 parts beeswax, 1 part lithium auto grease, and 1 part Dexron ATF. Works like a charm.

For black powder, muzzleloader & BPCR, I use pure lead alloy and a homemade lube I call "Junior Lube." The formula is here: http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/lube.htm Lots of people use it. For the tiny bit of NRA Alox in the mix, I buy it from LAR45 at a very good price.

[Cherokee]

Call me odd but I switched to hard commercial lube (Thompson Red) because I was tired of bullets sticking together, getting lube all over my fingers, having it gob up my seating dies and having to clean it off the loaded ammo. I also have not had any leading problems with properly sized bullets in pistol or rifle loads.

I would try some of these home made lubes to save cost if I knew which formulas would give me a lube that doesn't have those things I switched to get away from. Any suggestions ?

[shooter2]

I use LBT blue for everything. IMHO, you need a heater for you Lube/sizer.

If memory serves, most of the BR cast bullet crowd used Apache Blue, but I seem to recall reading recently that it was no longer available. Don't quote me on that.

[Edward429451]

I switched to hard lube for the same reasons as cherokee did and did get a heater and it works great. I like it. I see alot of talk about lubes here and wondered (if anyone used hard lube for rifles) what you guys use and why.

I've tried several lubes, Alox, RCBS rifle lube, some no name stuff, and even beeswax melted right into the 450 from a toilet wax ring. I've not been able to tell that any of it reduces leading at all (maybe sizes there) just that some lubes smoke more than others.

I looked at FWFL and may try mixing some up in the future. Quite a list of ingrediants to chase down! Do you guys make some sort of mould to make your own hollow sticks of lube?

[SharpsShooter]

Ed,

You might consider some BullShop #2 or "Speed Green", made by one of our fine members. #2 is advertised to work work up to 2200fgps and the speed green will handle anything up from there for most applications. I'm using the #2 in all my 45-70's (Smokeless and Black Powder loads) and it works well.

[rbstern]

Junior, is that PCF forumla by weight or volume? Do you know what the melting temp is?

[Maven]

rbs, It's simply by volume 4 parts beeswax, 1 part lithium auto grease, and 1 part Dexron ATF. Works like a charm.

[rbstern]

Thanks, Maven. Is it a harder or soft lube? Do I have to worry about the lube running off the bullets in the hot Georgia sun?

[shooter575]

Edward429451 Here is a pic of my lube mould set up.1"pvc,a 3/8 rod and a plug hold the rod close the end.I use a wood dowel to push the lube stick out.How long to wait untill it can be pushed out depends on how sticky and hard your lube is.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/shooter575/537b86fc.jpg

[Edward429451]

Great pic! I have all that stuff in the garage. I may just be mixing my own sooner than I thought. Is that PCF still in the tube? Speedgreen onthe side? Do you mix that stuff double boiler style or just directly on low heat?


Thats good reading junior. I'm interested to know if your lube is hard also. At first I thought it must be soft (For some reason I thought wax toilet rings were beeswax but your big block of beeswax don't look anything like a wax ring and looks hard). The worst thing about store bought is that its store bought...Aint that the truth. Only one place in my town stocks lube and they're almost always out when I need it.

I'll prolly order some from one or two of you guys while I'm getting my mold setup and ingrediants collected.

Thanks guys!

[jh45gun]

Wax toilet rings are not made out of beeswax anymore it is a parafin type wax. I would stay away from them and look for pure bees wax.

[Blackwater]

For black, count me in the Emmert's clan too. I add @ 6-7% lanolin to mine, and it seems to pan lube better, and sticks to the bullets and in the grooves better with the lanolin.

For smokeless, I used the NRA formula for many, many years, but after mixing up my first batch of Felix lube, I'm a convert to that. Doesn't smoke nearly as much, and shoots VERY clean in handguns. Will be auditioning it in rifles soon.

I have 3 lube/sizers, and they contain (1 each) NRA, Emmert's and Felix lube. When the NRA stuff's gone, I think I'm gonna' try a tube of Rooster HV Rifle lube, just for kicks and giggles, and to see how it does at HV compared to Felix lube.

Actually, I think we're dang lucky to have so many good, effective lubes. Main thing, it seems, is finding one that you simply LIKE, rather than one that actually works. They all seem to work for most purposes, and that's a pretty darn sweet place to be for a shooter.

[Lloyd Smale]

bout the same as anthony. I use felix cut with 1/4 hard lube. Red rooster is what i have now but it doesnt make a differnce which and then i add about a 1/3 of a bottle of lee alox to enough to make a 3lb coffee can full of it. I also add a small amount maybe three spoonfulls of cordoba wax to it. It has served me well in just about every type of gun that shoots smokeless powder.
Edward, I use homemade Felix's World Famous Lube on almost everything and am very happy with it. I have combined the FWFL with about 25% Saeco green hard lube to make a little harder lube. Haven't really tested it in rifles yet, but the handguns can't tell the difference. Tony

[Bass Ackward]

rbs, It's simply by volume 4 parts beeswax, 1 part lithium auto grease, and 1 part Dexron ATF. Works like a charm.


Paul,

Yep. That's my rifle standard now too. I swapped ATF for Mobil1. So it is 4 parts bees wax, 1 part lithium auto grease, 1/3 cup Mobil 1 (30W), and as much Carnuba as you need to get it to the hardness you want. Translation: correct the guestimates on the other proportions.

Cheap, accessible, works well at low pressures (doesn't throw fliers), and won't freeze hard down to as far as I can take it. Since all bees wax thickens, it's not a perfect world, but the best I have found so far under hunting conditions.

There is always a down side. You gotta make it outside and cook it in a covered pan so that it doesn't catch fire. I have a covered grill that works great for this.

Not real pleased with it at this hardness on wheelers yet though. Might need to be a little stiffer not to get blown off.

[Char-Gar]

I use two homemade lubes with 100% satisfaction. My primary lube is a mixture of 60/40 beeswax and Vaseline. I have been using this for 45 years in handguns and rifles. Last week I pushed some RCBS 170 FN GC bullet down a 32 Win. Spl. barrel at 2.1K fps (30/H335) and ended up with a spotless, lead free barrel.

I may get into trouble here for being stupid or something, but with one exception I had never had lead deposited in a rifle barrel. That one exception is a Win 92 in 25-20 which produced some fine slivers of lead on the cleaning patch.

I have had lead in pistol barrels, but it was not a lube problem.

I also use Felix lube from the "Big Melt" and it is fully as good as the above. It may be better for some applications, but I have not used enough of it to be certain.

I don't understand the search for a hard/clean lube, just like I don't understand the search for a clean burning powder. I have always used soft lubes and wash my hands. The smells and feels of bullet lube and powder fouling bring back fond memories of many plesant days gone past, days spent loading and shooting.

I learned to use soap and water at a very early age, so washing my hands seems sorta normal and automatic. It doesn't create stress or angst in my life. I also never ran out of time in my day, with important things undone, because I had to stop and wash my hands.

[lovedogs]

Guess we'll always be striving for perfection, huh? So far all I've used is SPG for lubing everything. It's working okay. Just for curiosity I might try some others sometime. My only experience with hard lubes has been with some custom cast bullets I ordered once. They had some hard blue lube and white powder on them and I've never had anything that leaded like they did. It was horrible!

Steve Garbe has an interesting write up on lubes on the SPG web site that some may want to read about. I'm not sure I'll continue using his lube though. I tried to contact him to ask a question and he never would respond. I figure if he doesn't care to respond and give a customer a moment of his time I can probably get my questions answered by someone else who wants my business.

[jh45gun]

Guess we'll always be striving for perfection, huh? So far all I've used is SPG for lubing everything. It's working okay. Just for curiosity I might try some others sometime. My only experience with hard lubes has been with some custom cast bullets I ordered once. They had some hard blue lube and white powder on them and I've never had anything that leaded like they did. It was horrible!

Steve Garbe has an interesting write up on lubes on the SPG web site that some may want to read about. I'm not sure I'll continue using his lube though. I tried to contact him to ask a question and he never would respond. I figure if he doesn't care to respond and give a customer a moment of his time I can probably get my questions answered by someone else who wants my business.

Thats interesting I emailed him a email a couple of times and he responded. It took a while but hey not all guys may check their email every day or be online.

[Bret4207]

Junior- Pinko Commie ***?! I shocked a good Democrat would use such lanuage. HAR! ( I'd stick a big smilie here, but don't know how).

I bought a case of 50/50 Alox from GAR a few years back and still have a lot to go through. It works good for me. I never had good luck with what we used to call "crayon lubes", the hard ones in bright colors.

FWIW- If I use Lee's Liquid Mule Snot or have some otherwise sticky boolits I dust them with moly/mica/graphite powder. Slicks them right up. Yes, you will have to wash your hands.

[44man]

Lovedogs, SPG has been the worst lube We have used for BPCR. The last 10" of barrel will be caked with hard fouling and it is HARD. A total waste of money because he charges 4 or 5 times the amount it costs to make it. Every single home made recipe we have tried is way better then SPG. I don't know anyone in our shooting bunch that uses it. Brian, who set all the national records last year, does not use it.

[Maven]

rbs & Bass, A clarification is needed since I just cut & pasted the relevant sentence from Junior's post (and it actually worked!). To wit, rbs asked whether Junior's lube proportions were by weight or by volume. The cut & pasted sentence and Jr's. original post say by volume. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. More to the point of the original query, I've made Felix Lube using both mineral oil and ATF and find they work very well. My batches are on the soft side since my reloading bench and lube sizer reside in an unheated basement (50 deg.) and I need them to flow given pressure and little added heat.

rbs, Junior lives in Louisiana so I guess his lube meets the no-drip-in-hot-weather criterion you mentioned. Maybe we should ask him?

[shooter575]

[QUOTE=Edward429451]Great pic! I have all that stuff in the garage. I may just be mixing my own sooner than I thought. Is that PCF still in the tube? Speedgreen onthe side? Do you mix that stuff double boiler style or just directly on low heat?


Nah, them are all B/P lubes. The amber stuff is Beeswax and olive oil. 60/40.The redish stuff is BW,neetsfoot oil and lanolin 50/25/25 That is my main BP lube. Color is from a hunk of lumber marker.The green stuff is something my daughter mixed up.The color came from some of her old lipstick.You cant see in the pic but it had some metalflake in it [yuck] It is long gone. Anyway I color the stuff just for ID.
I use a poormans double boiler. coffee can in a old sauce pan. My Felix lube not shown comes out dark brown

[Junior1942]

rbs, Junior lives in Louisiana so I guess his lube meets the no-drip-in-hot-weather criterion you mentioned. Maybe we should ask him?PCF/411 gets a little tacky on the hottest days of summer but still shoots just fine.

One point about making it: the lithium grease doesn't want to blend. Use a melting/blending pot with flat sides and squeeze the globs of lithium grease against the sides of the pot with a spatula. It'll blend just fine then.

Just pour the melt into your sizer/luber.

Tpr. Bret: please don't tell any of my liberal friends what "PCF" means, ok?

[lar45]

About the lube molds and getting it out afterwards.
If it sticks real bad, you can freeze the whole thing, then tap it on the table a couple of times and they will usually slide right out. If not, then I use a 1" hardwood dowel and hammer the lube out. I use a 5/16" bolt with a similar setup for my lubes.

And if anyone wants a sample, just email me at idahobronco@aol.com I will be out of town for the next week or so though.
www.lsstuff.com/lube

[Bret4207]

Junior- My lips are sealed.

[lovedogs]

44Man... All I've ever used is SPG, but I use it with smokeless so have no idea what it'd do with black powder. It has worked fairly well for me but sometimes I do get some leading. I'm thinking, for all the reasons mentioned, of switching to something else. I'm not at all interested in making my own so don't know yet what I'll try. I use cast 20:1 alloy in my .45-70's (500 gr.) and Lyman #2 in my .44's. I'm thinking of something like some of the alox/beeswax mixes, like Lee or Javelina. Any comments? Suggestions?

[Dale53]

If you are not going to mix your own, I suggest you contact Lars45. He has the best price I have seen on alox/beeswax. Hardly worth TRYING to mix your own. You just can't beat $1.00 per stick (unless you ask him about a large order).

FWIW
Dale53

[Cayoot]

I have to second that statement. I have bought from Lars45 on my last few lube purchases. He is great to deal with. I'm more than happy with him and when I FINALLY use up the lube I bought from him, I'll be going back for more!:drinks:

[lovedogs]

Thanks for the friendly advice. I sent off an e-mail to Lars45 and looked at his web site. It looks like it ought to do the job. Sounds like it'll be a while hearing from him though so I'll have to wait until I can catch him at home. His prices sure do sound reasonable. Ain't it refreshing to find someone who's not into ripping folks off?

[swampmaster]

If you are not going to mix your own, I suggest you contact Lars45. He has the best price I have seen on alox/beeswax. Hardly worth TRYING to mix your own. You just can't beat $1.00 per stick (unless you ask him about a large order).

FWIW
Dale53
What is considered a large order? I might be willing to buy some for myself and resale also

[Jon K]

Dale,

What's the web address for LARS45?

Jon

[lovedogs]

Since those other posts I've gotten ahold of Glenn Larsen, LAR45, and tried his lubes. I think I'm going to line my garbage can with all the SPG I have. Glenn's lubes are great. No more leading. Great accuracy. I'm using Glenn's and never looking back... or looking at anything else. Why bother? His stuff is great. His service is great. His prices are great. What more could we ask for? Glenn, you're the man!

[Dale53]

JonK and others;
Glenn's web site is:
http://www.lsstuff.com/index.html

Dale53