Another myth bites the dust.....

[BruceB]

How many times have you heard the statement, "Military brass is HEAVIER than commercial brass!"??? This is usually accompanied by dark predictions of doom if one uses the same load in GI cases as he does in the civvy stuff.

Uh-huh. Probably hundreds of times, if you've been in this hobby for a few years.

Getting ready to crank up the ammo factory for my new .223, I decided to do a quick check on the case weights of the assorted brass I have on hand. I took ten cases marked "WCC" (Western Cartridge Company, or Olin) from TEN different years of manufacture, and another ten cases marked "LC" for Lake City Arsenal, also from ten different years, and ten assorted Winchester commercial cases with both "Winchester" and "WW Super" headstamps, implying that these were of varying vintages as well.

All the brass was brilliantly shiny from the tumbler, and confirmed free of any leftover corncob etc.

The lightest case weighed was 94.1 grains, and the heaviest was 97.1 grains. The lightest in average group weight were the military WCCs, the next heaviest were the military LC cases, and the heaviest group on average were the commercial Winchesters. The AVERAGE weights of the three lots were only 1.5 grains apart. This is remarkable consistency, if'n you ask me.

This info won't stop me from sorting cases by headstamp, but it DOES clearly show that certain "information" that everyone "knows" to be true, is crapola. Check your own brass just to be safe before loading all of it with the same load, but don't believe everything you read or hear on handloading subjects. Indeed, I have on occasion found the opening statement to be true, i.e.: that SOME military cases, or SOME lots, were indeed heavier than my current on-hand commercial brass. I must add though, that I have also found results similar to those of today, wherein commercial .308s were heavier than whatever 7.62 NATO brass I had, and .223 Remingtons were heavier than the 5.56mm brass I owned at a particular time.

Don't take anything for granted.

[Dale53]

>>>Don't take anything for granted.<<<

Now, there is a GOOD piece of advice.

Dale53

[felix]

Bruce, I don't think there ever was a difference in the various 223s, not even from the beginning. In the bench gun using reformed military, I see no difference in the brass brand. Individual cases, yes. When shooting competition, I sorted the cases by where they shot on paper, disregarding all other eyeball input. ... felix

[Willbird]

I would guess they run 223 brass on the same blanks and dies as 5.56 brass.


Bill

[mike in co]

your error is basing your data on a small case like 223. i have cases in the low 90's to just over 100gr.....volume does vary by mfg, but more from mfg to mfg than commercial to mil in the 223/556 case.

i have data on tons of 223 brass and it does vary by manufacture.

the warning came from earlier times. larger cases things like '06, 308 and 7 and 8 mm......
accurate powders in 7.62x51 says lake city match brass requires a 4% reduction from listed loads in commercial brass( these being 155/168/175 match loads). my loads/and data confrimed the 4% number.

the statement is true in the correct context, not a myth.....

[David R]

Just read the Lyman 47th edition, its all over the place in that book. Always sez reduce loads in military brass by 5%. I always believed it and never checked my self. Guess I gotta weigh some 223 and '06 brass.

Thanks Bruce B

David

[Ken O]

I've found the same thing. I pretty much shot LC brass in .223 for HP and LR competition, but I'm tired of messing with the crimp. I take averages for the brass and sort out for the 600yd line, then shoot the out of spec brass on the short lines, (200 and 300 yd lines)Last year I bought once fired WW brass from the brassmansbrass, and expected the average wieght to be less, NOT SO, 94gr was the medium for both brands. For a $1 a thousand more, it makes no sense to go thought the trouble of removing the crimp.

[Bass Ackward]

Thanks Bruce.

Another thought provoking post.

[buck1]

Thanks Bruce.

Another thought provoking post.


ME TOO!!...Buck

[Char-Gar]

The notion that GI brass is thicker than commercial brass, has some foundation in truth, but has been universalized over the years until it no longer has any meaning.

1950s 30-06 (LAke City) GI brass is thicker than commercial 30-06 cases of the same vintage. I have weighted them, sectioned them and measure the walls, and filled them with water and weighted them. I know it to be true and not a myth. Some of the early Speer manuals (in the 30-06 section) cautioned loaders to reduce the loads in GI cases. They hold about 2 grains of powder less than commercial cases.

I have some 50's vintage Frankford Arsenal National Match 06 cases and they are not thicker than Commerical. So all of this depends on who made the brass.

I also have a batch of LC 68 NM cases that are the same as commerical brass except a little softer.

Your (and other) observation on 7.62 Nato and 223 GI brass are spot on. They are no thicker than commerical cases. I have a bunch of LC 68 7.62 cases and they are the same as commercial. I "assumed" they were thicker a la 30-06 cases, but when I put a tubing mike on the necks, I found out they were a hair thiner than R-P commercial brass. They were also more uniform in thickness if that matters.

This belongs in the same category of Myth as you can't size a cast bullet more than .003 without damaging the accuracy. Both may have had some basis in fact in days gone by, but with todays equipment and components are no longer true. Facts that are repeated without being updated become myths.