K31 paper patch?

[techlava]

The original metal jacket bullet was invented by Rubin in Switzerland to replace a paper patch military bullet. GP11 was the result. I am wondering if one can make a suitable paper patch bullet for K31 with its notoriously short throat. What would be a good bullet to start from? Please comment.

[docone31]

I suspect, it will make a good paper patch project.
The 7.5 X 55 cartridge is close to the 7.62 in performance.
First thing you need to do,
What size mold will you be looking for?
You find this by driving a lead fishing sinker, or something that will give you bore diameter, and groove diameter. That is where you start.
I suspect, the Lee 180gn .30cal mold will be a good starting point. The mold drops at .301 bore, with .310 diameter. With my .30s I size to .308, then two wraps of either notebook paper, or computer printer paper, then size to .309. Yours will be smaller.
You first need to slug the barrel. Once you have that information, you can go from there.
It saves a lot of guessing.

[techlava]

I was fortunate to get a K31 165 silhouette GB mold that fits the K31 throat. I just hope it'll work with paper patch.

[docone31]

That sounds like the ticket.
Now to size it.
I would size it to .308, then wrap it and see how the wrap corresponds to the slug measurement.
If sizing at .308, with lined notebook paper, the patch length will be 1 3/16". I cut my patch strips 1" X what ever length the paper is.
That so far has been my standard.
On second thought, your measurement is 7.5 VS 7.62, the ones I use.
You might be able to wrap the unsized casting, then size to .308, if the groove is near that.

[1874Sharps]

I have had good success with a 168 grain "hybrid" paper patch gas checked bullet out of a mold I had made up by Lee Precision. It casts at 0.301" and has a standard gas check shank. I use a special paper cut 10 mm wide for two wraps. Unlike all other paper patching I have done, this patch is retained by the bullet all the way to the target and gives 2500 fps over the chrono with good accuracy. If I knew how to do it, I would insert some photos of the thing for you. This bullet works well in other 30 cal rifles I have including my 303 Brit (when sized at 0.310"). My wife and I had 25 of these molds made up and sold all but one (mine) on ebay. One customer reported first time loads attaining 2 MOA at 100 yards with 2650 fps velocity over a chronograph. The plus side of this also is that the boolits were made of a semi-soft alloy so that in theory it is suitable for hunting. Perhaps I could send you a few of these to you so that you could give them a try. Maybe you can tell me how to insert photos into these messages, too!

[1874Sharps]

I am going to try to post the photos of the said boolit.

[1874Sharps]

Here are some of the results of the above boolit.

[jonk]

I've been slowly playing with paper more and more and am starting to do pretty well with some in my Krags and Argentine Mauser.

However for the K31 I'd ask, why? Other than to try it. The K31s I have have SUCH a smooth bore that I've been able to drive plain wheelweights with a gas check to 2400 fps- probably about max for a 200 gr bullet- with no leading and they clean up with 3-4 patches. It will shoot roughly MOA groups from a bench on a good day and 1.5 any day of the week.

But I do like to tinker and won't criticize the idea- just for me paper patching (and I'd call myself an amateur at it yet) has been a solution for a rough bore or an oversized bore or to turn a non-bore rider into a bit more of a bore rider. But do let us know how it turns out- if worth time tinkering I'd try it.

[pdawg_shooter]

I paper patch so I dont have to worry about leading. I gives me more velocity with soft alloys for hunting. To me it is a win-win situation.

[Nrut]

I have had good success with a 168 grain "hybrid" paper patch gas checked bullet out of a mold I had made up by Lee Precision. It casts at 0.301" and has a standard gas check shank. I use a special paper cut 10 mm wide for two wraps. Unlike all other paper patching I have done, this patch is retained by the bullet all the way to the target and gives 2500 fps over the chrono with good accuracy. If I knew how to do it, I would insert some photos of the thing for you. This bullet works well in other 30 cal rifles I have including my 303 Brit (when sized at 0.310"). My wife and I had 25 of these molds made up and sold all but one (mine) on ebay. One customer reported first time loads attaining 2 MOA at 100 yards with 2650 fps velocity over a chronograph. The plus side of this also is that the boolits were made of a semi-soft alloy so that in theory it is suitable for hunting. Perhaps I could send you a few of these to you so that you could give them a try. Maybe you can tell me how to insert photos into these messages, too!

Hello 1874Sharps..
Good show!...:drinks:
Are you using computer stick-on labels for your paper?...Have you tried them without gas checks?
thx.

[1874Sharps]

NRUT,

I used a special paper known as "vellum" in making the aforementioned bullets. It is almost as if it is half paper and half plastic, but it is the strongest paper I have run in to. After gluing down the terminal end with glue stick and allowing it to dry followed by running it through a Lee 0.309" sizer, that patch is anchored. I tried this bullet a time or two with no gas check and with a patch that had a twisted tail that was cut off after it dried, but the tests did not go very well. I certainly will not say it cannot be done, just that with a very limited number of experiments I was not able to make it work. The bullets worked great as originally designed, so I did not pursue preparing and shooting them as a one would a conventional paper patch bullet.

[Nrut]

1874Sharps
I use vellum also but with out the glue...You are right, it is a very tuff paper, my favorite of the ones I have tried so far...
I am thinking that the gas check is acting as a strong driving band and that is why you are getting better groups with it...I have PP some checked boolits but haven't had the time to try them yet...

Is it critical how long you wait for the glue to dry before you size the boolit? .. I am thinking if the glue is still fluid that it would spread around better between the boolit and the patch....

[yeahbub]

Unlike all other paper patching I have done, this patch is retained by the bullet all the way to the target and gives 2500 fps over the chrono with good accuracy.

1874Sharps, I'll have to second your use of vellum as a source of paper and the technique of using a patch not much wider than the portion of the boolit one needs to cover. Saves paper. No twisting, tightening or trimming. The vellum I use is 100% cotton drafting vellum (big sheets, many patches). I've also used carpenter's glue on the last 1/4" to 3/8" of the patch, though the office glue stick is probably neater and faster. But, I can't agree that they stay attached. Like twisted tail patches, these are also reduced to confetti when the projectile exits the barrel and releases the high pressure gasses driving it. None of those I've recovered show any evidence of remaining paper.

I patch mostly pistol calibers, from half way up the ogive to .050-.100 below the heel, depending on caliber. This has eliminated the need for gas checks. I get the cleanest barrels, and it's great to know that bore and groove dimensions remain consisten through the whole string since there's no metallic deposits to change internal conditions. I "roll" lube with a dollop of Johnson Paste Wax in a flat bottom cookie can and gently roll them around until the film looks the same on all of them. Once dry and sized, they feel slightly waxy but dry to the touch and it seems to be all the lube they need. This also allows loading heavy boolits in bottle-necked cases, since there are no lube grooves to expose. An aquaintance has a lever-action in .44-40 but prefers 265gr and heavier - now he's got a way to do it.

Nrut, I stand my freshly patched boolits in front of a fan and they're dry in twenty minutes or so. It's important that the glue be dry as well - I've had a few slip the patch when I tried to size them too soon.

[303Guy]

I have experimented with wrapping like yeahbub describes. I can't say it works in the field but that is likely to be due to other reasons.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-185F.jpg

The boolit below was fired into my 'test tube'. It was different in that it had a second patch added to bring the neck area up to groove diameter. The recovered boolit would indicate that it worked. It was for testing in my two-groove Brit.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-194F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-195F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-199F.jpg

[1874Sharps]

NRut & Yeahbub,

I wait until the glue holding down the terminal end is fully dry or else the Lee 0.309" sizer will strip the patch. Once it is dry, the patched boolit is pushed through the sizer and that patch gets ironed on and slicked up in the process. I then run it into an old Lyman 450 sizer/lubricator with a 0.310" die and grease them with Lyman black lube, which fills in the space above the gas check in the shank area. I must confess that I was surprised at these loads and the lack of confetti forming six feet in front of the muzzle. All other paper patching I have done produces said confetti. I found several of my bullets in the burm amd saw the remnants of the paper patch. That surprised me and the only explanation I could come up with is that the "dimpled" nose was creating an area of high localized pressue and brought the aerodynamic center forward toward the nose. The areas of pressure may have caused the patch to be retained.

[docone31]

I routinely down size my patches from .319 to .309. There is no stripping. I use Auto Wax as lube, just a light smear.
I have found, with my .308, lube is detrimental to accuracy.

[1874Sharps]

I had some very good and encouraging results at the range today with the K31 and the gas check-paper patch hybrid bullet. It was consistently shooting "minute of clay pidgeon" on the burm at 110 yards. The boolit was seated as far out as possible and the handle on the action had to be closed with vigor. The load was advertised as 2500 fps with IMR 3031 powder. The boolits recovered were very well expanded.

[303Guy]

So, the patch does not cover the gas check! I have only tried patching over the gas check. Something else for me to experiment with! Mmmmm....!

[1874Sharps]

303 Guy,

You are correct in you observations. The boolit shank is 0.301" and the gas check end is standard 30 caliber. When the gas check is seated and sized to 0.309" the shank remains at 0.301". It is then patched up to groove diameter plus one thousandth of an inch and run through the 0.309" sizer again, then lube in a lyman sizer/lubricator (at 0.310") to squirt the black lube into the space just above the gas check (where it is a little recessed) and to impregnate the patch with lube. The gas check no doubt helps the patch to stay in place on the boolit's journey down the barrel.

[Artful]

how does it do beyond 110 yards?

[HollowPoint]

Have any of you guys ever Paper Patched cast boolits with more of a "Spitzer" shaped profile?

My reason for asking is, a couple of days ago I had the day off so I thought I'd try to make up a smooth-sided Paper-Patch-Dedicated bullet mold for my K-31 that had a more streamlined profile than the hollow pointed Lyman 311291 I'm using now.

The mold itself turned out OK and it's dropping some good looking hollow-pointed flat-based bullets weighing 150 grains. (+/- .4 grains)
I wondered how difficult it would be to wrap an identical bullet with a boat-tailed base instead of the flat base I have on this mold now? Any of you guys ever try wrapping such a bullet?

On the bullet mold I'm eluding to I did manage to ruin one of the two cavities so, the bullets I cast with it were restricted to the front-most cavity.

I cast about 25 of them this morning but, at this point I haven't even tried to patch any of them. When I measured them I found that they were slightly out of round just enough that I'm going to have to make a sizer to make them as symmetrical as possible before I waste any time patching them; let alone shooting them.

From time to time I've read on these threads of some guys patching jacketed bullets in order to bring them up in size for odd-ball bore dimensions. I have to assume that some of these bullets were "Spitzer" type bullets with boat-tail bases.

I'm wondering why more folks don't shoot cast bullets with this type of profile in their Schmidt-Rubins? Is it because they're not readily available or because there's a down side to this type of cast bullet?

I can see potential problems if the noses on these cast boolits were overly-long or overly-soft but, at the right length and hardness it seems that such bullets might be superior to the less streamlined cast boolits I generally shoot through my Swiss rifle. I mean, with respect to interior and exterior ballistics.

I ordered a little more metal stock to make me up another bullet mold of this same style. Having learned from my mistakes I fully expect for this next attempt to come out better than my initial attempt. I'll be putting it together so that it can be used to cast both Flat-Base Bullets and Rebated-Boat-Tail bullets. (That's the plan anyways; wether it turns out that way is yet to be seen.) I made a similar mold for my Big Bore Air Rifle and it works quite well.

Before going through the bother of making such a bullet mold, I'm wondering if patching these "Spitzer" shaped bullets will be worth the effort?

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Well it seems like the info I was hoping to get from some of you more experienced paper-patchers is not available here or perhaps it's proprietary information.

I did use the search feature in hopes of finding some info on patching this type of bullet but, I guess I'll have to work out the answers on my own.

The metal stock I mentioned in my previous post failed to show up so I used some scrap pieces to put together a single cavity mold of the type I eluded to above.

I looks like it may work providing that all my measurements are correct.

The image below is just a small sample of a couple of the bullets I cast from this latest single cavity mold and one cast from my previous mold. (the one I screwed up one of the cavities on.)

I'm still waiting for my metal stock to get here so I can put a mold together with a little more attention to the fit and finish. My impatience is clearly visible on this mold but, no matter. The bullets themselves appear to have potential. I'll just have to try shooting them in order to tell.

HollowPoint

[rhbrink]

I don't have a clue as to if what you are trying will work or not but do admire the effort and thought envolved. I would guess to make the boolits very hard and use a slow burning powder, 4350, 4831, or maybe WW760 and let us know how it works good or bad.

[Casting Timmy]

The closest I know to what you are talking about would be paper patching bullets meant for a gas check without a gas check. I think I remember that being talked about in the nra cast bullet manual, can't remember what they talked about with it either.

Do let us know how it turns out and have fun shooting.
Tim

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

How about it 303 Guy ?
Question # 1(from my 5 yr old grand daughter who is standing here telling me that typing with two fingers is wrong, takes after her grandmother who tells me almost everything I do is wrong):groner:
After explaining to her where you live, she wants to know -Does Santa Clause leave presents for the children in New Zealand too, and if he does ,how does he get there and here all in the same night? I'm dropping this hot potato in your lap my friend.
Question #2 Hopefully easier to answer - I was looking at your previous post photos and am wondering what kind of paper and wetting medium do you use to get that, very obvious, superior shrinkage ?
Thanks,
Mike

[303Guy]

Question #1 - Santa gets here first since we are some 20 hours ahead of you, then he moves west into the night to get to you all on time. An alternative theory is that ..... :holysheep

Question # 2 - I wrap 'em dry and twist 'em tight. And mine are smooth sided with a slight taper to match (sort of) the throat and leade and the soft alloy I am using grips the paper. I've taken to adding a small rebate to the boolit bases so as to retain a sharp gripping edge without compromizing the trailing edge - to do with the mold style I use with a base plug. I think it important that the nose section actually contacts the throat and or leade so that paper to core grip is achieved before any slipping can occur. I also use a minimal tail overhang as the problem I was having was to get the patch tail to separate from the core at the muzzle. I was finding the patch bases half way to the target. Harder alloys for higher velocity or pressure? I don't know. (I have a sort of love affair with that soft yet tough alloy I use - the last lot was self hardening and took only a few hours with no water quenching. I wish I could remember what the alloy was![smilie=1:)

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-002F.jpg The mold.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-120F-1.jpg Short tail.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-875F.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-131F.jpg Rebated boolit base.

See the edge feathering on the fired boolit? That's what the rebate prevents (as well as mold wiskers/feathering).



Oh - typing with two fingers is the veterans way. Our finger tips go numb in cooler weather so we can't actually feel the keys. (I used to be a touch typer).

I've developed a shooting style that holds my finger away from the trigger then I simply twitch my finger to fire. That way I don't have premature firings on a light trigger from a finger that can't actually feel the trigger!:Fire: (Not needed or used on my Lee Enfields).

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[303Guy]

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/No428gr2209branfiller.jpg A patch tail that did not come off (short distance).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-025F-1.jpg Dry wrapping using a cig roller.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-708F.jpg Patch slip with harder alloy.
That happened during seating the PPCBoo. Paper to case neck friction higher than paper to lead alloy core.

[Old Coot]

Hollow Point; None of the information herer is "PROPRIOTARY" all you have to do is be able to and willing to read. Not many flat sided smooth dedicated paper patch molds exist -that I am aware of- so un bunch you panties.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

303Guy - Thanks for the information, was an excellent tutorial. I've been trying different paper patch technique's, bullets, powders etc. ever since I saw Quigley Down Under some years ago. My success rate was somewhat dismal until I found this forum. I was on the right track as it has taken only some tweaking, mostly on the wrapping itself, to get some repeatable results on the target. Just finding out about P. Mathews book was a great help as well. As for Santa, I'm just gonna tell Miss Abby the same thing I told my kids, He's Magic and send her off with instructions to ask her Grandmother,who knows everything about everything. In fact, I may just go with her and when Mom-Mom is done explaining Santa I'll ask her how to properly paper patch cast lead bullets. Care to guess what she might tell me to do with my PPPCLB's .......
Thanks again,
Mike

[HollowPoint]

Hollow Point; None of the information herer is "PROPRIOTARY" all you have to do is be able to and willing to read. Not many flat sided smooth dedicated paper patch molds exist -that I am aware of- so un bunch you panties.


Old Coot: A fitting name for one that gives such a rude response.

The information I was seeking was not given "Here." Therefore, I must assume that this information -if it exists- (and I'm sure it does somewhere) is in the possession of someone who doesn't frequent this site or perhaps wants to keep it to themselves.


Proprietary; that's what was meant with the use of this word.

As I stated above, I used the search feature to try to track down this info on my own but to no avail.

"Unbunch you panties?" You're also quite lucky. In my neighborhood that borders on "Fighting words" and Old Coots don't last long here.

This informational thread seems to be turning into a "Select Few Are Welcome Here" sort of thing so I believe I'll move on to some more cordial topics where most replies are more helpful and less "Smart-Assed."

HollowPoint

[Old Coot]

I have found that everything you need to know about patching for the K31 or any other rifle is here on this and the black powder patching forums.

As for being fightin words you started it with reference that someone was with holding information. Read your own post. It IS RATHER RUDE.

Hollow Point I am right here in Flagstaff.

Brodie Brickey

[Dannix]

Oh - typing with two fingers is the veterans way. Our finger tips go numb in cooler weather so we can't actually feel the keys. (I used to be a touch typer).

I've developed a shooting style that holds my finger away from the trigger then I simply twitch my finger to fire. That way I don't have premature firings on a light trigger from a finger that can't actually feel the trigger!:Fire: (Not needed or used on my Lee Enfields).:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

You cracked me up there. :bigsmyl2: NZ must have some interesting weather with that ridge of mountains you have.

[Old Coot]

303 Guy; with stories like that I'm tempted to ask what part of Texas New Zealand is in?

[303Guy]

Have any of you guys ever Paper Patched cast boolits with more of a "Spitzer" shaped profile?HollowPoint, I didn't feel 'qualified' to answer your question but I have thought about it and experimented a little. I came to the conclusion that with my guns, the gain by having a super slick nose is so little given the velocity and boolit weight constraints of my guns. I see my 303 Brits as been limited to about 2500 fps with lighter boolits and about 2200 fps (or less) with my favoured heavies. Harder alloys might well change the whole picture 'specially with lower density alloy giving sufficient boolit length, to chamber properly. With my 25/303 I find the heavies seem to fit the throat better and with a reasonable semi-spitzer, the BC is so good anyway.

An effective compromise might be a spire-point design. My theory is that the unsupported spire tapers toward the centre of gyration so rapidly and is so short that accelleration and/or spin won't distort it iether in the bore or in flight. The compromise is that the spire-point would need to be shorter than optimum for best streamlining but more streamlined than a round nose. (Just my thoughts - no field tests to back me up).


Here we go - Borrowed from 1874Sharps from post #17 of this thread. Exactly what I was thinking.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15181&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1251128282


I forgot about this patching.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-195F.jpg

This is with tracing paper which I assume to be 100% cotton (Vellum?) It expands pretty well when water soaked and remains very strong when wet. It shrinks something fearsom! The problem is that in order to prevent it from pulling itself open on shrinking, one needs the use of some form of glue and this I feel causes uneven strength in the wrap. (I've been wrong many times before so only field testing would tell. I suspect that this type of paper is less suited to softer alloy boolits at more moderate pressure and velocity. Again - conjecture!)

[nanuk]

http://gunloads.com/castboolits/attachment.php?attachmentid=27304&d=1291250543


I like the looks of them but after reading and reading and reading, I think the answer is a generalization...

Lead is simply NOT hard enough to resist deformation. a long unsupported nose can force bullet to cant in the bore. be it ever so slightly... it is still enough to affect accuracy.
A Jboo can have a significant percentage of weight ahead of the bearing surface as it is difficult to cant the bullet. Copper will withstand a high stress, so the lands will not be forced into the side of the bullet off kilter. think of it this way. you can scratch many alloys with a thumbnail. Can you scratch a copper jacket?

if a lead boolit does not start out perfectly aligned, it will not align itself. a Jboo will do so to a great extent.

so... that is why it seems that a CB needs the nose supported. Or no nose at all.

experiments have been done on this issue. I have read about them and seen pics... just can't remember where. Lyman cast bullet handbook? <shrugg>

[barrabruce]

Wrap paper around that spire point and you have less resistance than even soft lead will give.

Not saying it can't be done.

I have enough trouble as it is.

You need to align and seat the PP bullet up into the lands to get it to work.

Well my gun likes it like that better than a jump to the rifling.

A spire point will be harder to get to align up right.
The resistance of one side if not perfectly even will cause the point to move quite a ways compared to a flat design when it gets pushed into the lands and rifling.

good luck.

[HollowPoint]

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your input. It makes sense.

I did go out yesterday and shoot off a few of the 150 grainers I have pictured and several of the lighter 115's.

As stated earlier, they were lighter charges. I used 16 grains of 2400 in each. I was just wanting to see if they would actually work.

It was just informal Stump-Shooting but, all of these light loads were hitting close enough to my point of aim to where I think it's safe to say they may do better with more work.

At higher velocities all of that could change; and not for the better. I guess it's just a matter of trying it to be sure.

Thanks again for your input.

HollowPoint

[303Guy]

Well stated, nanuk. My thinking exactly. I do believe that a stubby spire-point will resist deformation and not have enough 'overhanging mass' to load the support area of the CBoo in the bore unevenly. With the right balance of nose mass and hardness and chamber pressure and of course chamber fit, the conical nose should ride the bore quite concentrically and produce good accuracy (my theory). I have a suspicion that a sharply pointed nose will be more sensitive to runout than a round nose or conical round nose due to air flow. Ever wonder why some CBoos will shoot reasonably out to 100 and go south beyond? Could it be due to the changing boolit flightpath under gravity and the effect of the airflow as the boolit starts to point out of line with the flight path? Or could it be that imbalances in the boo cause the casting to slowly deform over it's length which then becomes significant beyond 100 (yds/meters)?

[HollowPoint]

All of you guys seem to be making valid points.

" Ever wonder why some CBoos will shoot reasonably out to 100 and go south beyond? Could it be due to the changing boolit flightpath under gravity and the effect of the airflow as the boolit starts to point out of line with the flight path? Or could it be that imbalances in the boo cause the casting to slowly deform over it's length which then becomes significant beyond 100 (yds/meters)?"

Good questions.

Before making these bullet molds I did do a little informal research into bullet shapes in general with respect to slow moving bullets. (800-1300 fps) I wanted to see IF there were any factors in the profile of a bullet that would contribute more than others to the interior and exterior ballistics of a given design.

I never really planned on pushing them to full power; although if it turned out that they did shoot well, I could try them at higher velocities.

303, in your quoted questions above, I'm not sure of the velocities these projectiles would be traveling at but, another possibility that would cause bullet performance to go south beyond a certain distance would be at the transition point of going from supersonic to sub-sonic velocity.

Otherwise there may be nothing else wrong with the bullets themselves; they're just being used beyond or below their intended purpose.

This was one of the main reasons I decided to try the rebated boat-tail. In theory it would help mitigate the turbulence taking place during this velocity transition (not to mention the muzzle blast turbulence as it leaves the barrel.) and hopefully keep performance from going south beyond that point.

Of course, -as you guys have already mentioned- this all hinges of maintaining the concentricity of the bullet when cast; as well as when seated in the cartridge and when chambered and when fired.

As far as the length of my bullet noses, I used no formulas or technical methods to arrive at the length that I did. I just compared the noses of some of my jacketed bullets -both long and short- and just kind of eye-balled/guessed at what might work for my application.

As I said; I never really planned on shooting them at full power. I hoped to be able to use them on coyotes out to a couple of hundred yards or so with a max velocity of about 1600-1700 fps. The BHN I'm presently working around is in the 12-13 range.

I did want them to expand somewhat on impact so, I also included a hollow point on the tip.

Under these parameters I believe that these projectiles in their present state should be alright but, I have no way of knowing unless I test them; or, unless someone else has already done this testing. In which case, that would certainly save me alot of needless repetition.

Thanks for your input gentlemen. It's more food for thought.

HollowPoint