PDA

View Full Version : paper patch .17 as sabots



WickedGoodOutdoors
07-07-2009, 02:45 PM
Anyone ever paper patch a .17HMR as a Sabot

Faggetabout it; this was a dumb idea:redneck:

docone31
07-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Are you going to reload the LR cartridge?, or breech load it?
Paul Mathews would prime his 45 /70 cases, then front stuff his loads.

303Guy
07-08-2009, 01:49 AM
Anyone ever paper patch a .17HMR as a Sabot Ummmm.... hang on! Are you saying to take a fired 17HMR case and patch it? Why not a fired 22 lr case and patch that. Mmmmm... might work as a 25 short range varmint round. Dang... look what you gone and done!:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

303Guy
07-09-2009, 03:23 AM
Hah! Right! .... Here it is!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-174F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-175F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-177F.jpgThe worlds lightest bullet. It's a hollow point!
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-178F.jpg
The focus is not too hot! The wood is not the hardest either, nore is it the thickest plank but it is the lightest bullet! (Or was!)

303Guy
07-09-2009, 03:53 AM
Anyone ever paper patch a .17HMR as a Sabot OK. Something wrong there. Was that supposed to mean "with a sabot"? Like this?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-179F.jpg

I don't have a live HMR round.

WickedGoodOutdoors
07-09-2009, 08:10 AM
Sabot .22LR.

what do you shoot it out of?


Does the rimfire Primer go off upon ignition or when it hits the target?

303Guy
07-09-2009, 02:44 PM
Does the rimfire Primer go off ...No no, not me! That was a mock up to see how it looked. It does look like it would work at low pressure loadings but no, I won't be firing out of anything. Otherwise, it was sized to 25cal. The spent case projectile was fired out my 303-25. I used a double hornet charge of Lil'Gun but it did not burn very well - not enough pressure. I made the 22 LR case sizer for shooting them out my hornet. I wanted a powerful enough garden rabbit projectile with zero 'carry-over' range. They can be driven real fast!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-261F_edited.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-268F_edited.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-264F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-269F_edited.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-276F_edited.jpg

All this was done in the comfort of my little shed and the neighbors didn't hear a thing!

Oh, yes... The sabot on the LR case separated at the muzzle.

dogtrainer12
03-07-2010, 01:10 PM
I have made a few sabots using paper patching techniques. The key to success if to finish the sabot with a final rap of thin paper; this is the paper layer that gets stripped away from the sabot after leaving the barrel.

1. Make the sabot out of paper and Elmer’s glue. Roll as many turns (while counting) of paper around the bullet until you are within .008" of the desired final diameter; the glue will help keep the layers of paper together for step 2. You can try it without Elmer’s glue and see if the paper does not separate into individual layers.

2. Wait for the paper-glue to dry around the bullet. Using a straight-edge razor score the paper vertically in four places (equal distance) around the perimeter of the bullet to within a quarter of an inch of the bullet's base.

3. Rap the final thin paper as you would ordinarily do for traditional paper patching (two or three raps) and let dry.

4. Load and fire. The thin outer layer of paper will strip off exposing the leafs of the sabot. The leafs of the sabot will open up and free the bullet. It does work.

RMulhern
03-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Idea unreasonable!! Why heck no!! Runs right along with this forum!! Frankly...I'm thinking of necking down my thermos jug and paper patching a phonograph needle!!

phatman
03-12-2010, 06:13 PM
No Worries,
If we didn't brain storm our crazy ideas we would not get any good ideas:bigsmyl2:

John

Lucky Joe
03-13-2010, 12:36 AM
Idea unreasonable!! Why heck no!! Runs right along with this forum!! Frankly...I'm thinking of necking down my thermos jug and paper patching a phonograph needle!!


That's good I like that one. Good chuckle, out loud even.

Black Jaque Janaviac
01-09-2015, 01:19 PM
OK. This thread has me confused. So the OP is suggesting taking a live .17 HMR round and wrapping it in paper until the whole thing can be fired from a larger case?

Load it in backwards so the rimmed end strikes the target first, exploding, sending the bullet ba-- DUCK!

Sounds about as brilliant as our idea of using 209 primers as wrist-rocket ammunition. I guess since we never got hurt it musta been a good idea!

DIRT Farmer
01-09-2015, 09:39 PM
Well there was that Cival War thing the lead sabot, drill a mini ball for a 22 short and shoot powder carts the cannon crews pulled.

Ballistics in Scotland
01-11-2015, 02:52 AM
I don't know about the Minié ball in any of its American or European incarnations, but this became a recognized if not common practice with early cartridge rifles. It saw limited used in muzzle-loaders, probably because anyone ramming such a bullet down a fouled barrel would have to bring along his own courage for the job. I believe it may have been Paul Matthews who described its use in the Trapdoor .50-70, for entertainment purposes. He describes visible flashes in dim light against a cliff, which they hit without difficulty.

General Jacob invented a military double rifle for a very large explosive mechanically fitting bullet, and William Ellis Metford one for the muzzle-loading Enfield, to be filled with a percussive compound. Both were intended for detonating ammunition caissons. The government very understandably didn't adopt either, until they later found that using Mr. Metford's cavity, empty, improved accuracy in the marginally stabilized early Snider conversions. Metford claimed royalties, and was told "You patented an exploding bullet, and ours doesn't explode," (though the enemies of the Queen might have given him an argument) "so nothing doing."


There was some use of explosive shells, never much, in African big game rifles. But the tendency was for them to explode before penetrating on a thick-skinned animal, or if they did penetrate, to kill it no deader than a very large expanding bullet. I think the same was likely to apply to ammunition wagons, which were normally small and wood-enclosed, rather than prairie schooners. I don't know if it is true that a slice of bread always lands butter side down, but we know which end a dropped cartridge lands on.

Back to the OP's... idea... it isn't quite as colourful as it sounds, as long as you don't even think about doing it with a live round. Bullet stabilization is far more about bullet length than weight, and most modern rifles will stabilize an empty jacket quite well. Short range accuracy should be good, and danger at long range quite low - although you might have trouble convincing a neighbor that bullets are not all alike. People want to have close escapes from death, as long as it is over.

The big problem with any thing you "sabot" with tape is concentricity. If the centre of mass of a bullet is offset by even a thousandth of an inch, even if that centre of mass is made of air, it is actually describing a narrow spiral, equal in pitch to the rifling twist, while the outside appears to be moving in a straight line. Once liberated from the bore, the bullet heads off in the last direction that spiral was pointing.

Leaving wobbling and tumbling out of it, you can calculate the harm it will do to your group. A ten-inch twist and .oo1in. offset of mass will widen your group by about 2¾in. at 100 yards, and the offset with many layers of paper tape is likely to be several times that.

You could use heat-shrink Teflon tubing, which you can buy on eBay, though you should check to make sure the projectile hasn't left its tubing jacket behind as a bore obstruction. Using this very seductive idea for normal bullets and shooting evaporated when I bought some, and found it was too thick and inconsistent in thickness. But it might still give the best way to your idea. You could also use Teflon with a bit of plastic rod. For a few select calibres, such as .303 and .375, you could also use a short piece of aluminium rod, which if flat at the front shouldn't carry far. But don't use the anodized sort, as the anodized coating is the same stuff that aluminox abrasive wheels are made of.

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._McGregor

Friends of mine on a Scottish hill farm have a walled garden like Beatrix Potter's Mr. Macgregor, whose wife put Peter Rabbit's father in a pie. They inflict a fair bit of mortality, but confine themselves to firearms which won't damage the stonework, in which craftsmen can sometimes identify the work of individual craftsmen who died centuries ago.



127018