Would you rather Cast boolits or Swage them?

[mac0083]

I've got the molds and furnace to cast lead, But I'm wondering if i should have bought swagging equipment instead. I know I just dump scrap lead into the furnace and turn it on, sounds very simple. Do you use pre-formed small chuncks of lead to swage? how does that work? can you just use scrap lead pipe? probably not... Please explain how swagging works, Thank You!

[docone31]

I tossed that around,
Now, I cast, size, paper patch and get results!
Good ones.

[WILCO]

Right now I like casting, as it meets my needs and budget. I did look into swaging and it's pretty exspensive to start. That being said, here is a video to explain some swaging techniques. It's a three part series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pwl4x-Lb-g&feature=related

[barryjyoung]

I've got the molds and furnace to cast lead, But I'm wondering if i should have bought swagging equipment instead. I know I just dump scrap lead into the furnace and turn it on, sounds very simple. Do you use pre-formed small chuncks of lead to swage? how does that work? can you just use scrap lead pipe? probably not... Please explain how swagging works, Thank You!

I have cast bullets since 1980. I am just beginning to aquire the machines to make jacketted bullets. I will need a punch press, a larger milling machine and lathe. I intend to make my own dies.

Barry

[standles]

Why cast of course..

Casting is the finesse crowd :lol:

Swagers are the brutes of the crew with PSI issues. [smilie=2:


LOL

Steven

[JohnM]

LOL, nicely put Steven….

Brutes with PSI issues and the knowing touch


John

[Sixgun Symphony]

I have casted bullets for about ten years, I have ordered swaging equipment and it will be waiting for me when I get home from Iraq.

[1Shirt]

Swaging to me is just an assembly process with pressure, and requires little if any great knowhow. I tried it, didn't like it, stayed with casting. There is a process of knowledge required in casting which involves, knowing alloy, temp, mold preferance, speed, timing, sizing, lubing, gas checking, etc.etc.etc. It is sort of one of those "Ya just gotta love it" things where time and results are not necessarily the big deal, but results are. Just doesn't exist with dull looking swaged stuff.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[azrednek]

I prefer casting but what keeps me away from swaging is the initial set-up costs. What attracts me to swaging is Hornady's factory swaged bullets out shoot my cast. I can give the Hornadys a contest with my cast hollow based wad cutters but the hollow based casting session really tests my patience. I don't want to cast any hollow based bullets around women and children as the casting session is usually acompanied by a string of profanities with the high reject rate and the very slow production. If supplies become abundant again the factory swaged bullets are usually a good buy.

[ANeat]

Would you rather Cast boolits or Swage them?

Yes, I would rather cast or swage

[mac0083]

Well, the price of swaging equipment seems to be a barrier. On the other hand, i don't want to burn myself casting boolits for the sake of saving a little money. It may be cheaper to buy than to make...

Do any of you sell swaged copper jacketed bullets that you make? Or do you know of a person here that does? How are they priced compared to regular FMJ bullets purchased from Midway and other large stores? Not the Rainier copper-plated ones...
Typical sizes, 9mm and .45acp

[Adam10mm]

More options with swaging. Casting is OK and I cast for a few bullets like the 358 185gr FN, 215gr SWC, 10mm 225gr SWC, 9mm 135gr Slippery, etc.

I'm licensed to make bullets but haven't made any commercially since I gave up bullet casting commercially. Swaged bullets being sold commercially would get tiresome using a hand press for any respectable quantity. If you swage bullets they sure as heck better be perfect if someone is going to buy them.

[turbo1889]

Quite frankly I don't understand the question. With only a few exceptions, smooth sided bare lead paper-patch bullets for one, casting and swaging don't produce identical results or quite frankly results that are anywhere similar to each other.

Take a plain base two lube groove 500gr. 0.459" LFN cast boolet and set a jacketed 350gr. Semi-Spitzer nose profile, small diameter HP swaged 0.458" bullet next to it. Can both be made by casting - NO! Can both be made by swaging - NO! Can I load both bullets for my 45-70 - YES! Will they both have the same ballistic and terminal performance - NO! Will each bullet and it's loading be the best choice for two different hunting situations - YES!

If you want one kind of bullet and you want to make it yoursefl you cast it. If you want the other bullet and you want to make it yourself you swage it. Some bullet designs are best served by the casting method of production, others are best served by the swaging method of production. What you want (along with your budget) will determine whether you cast or swage.

[Jim_Fleming]

Heh! Steve yer an agitator! Ya bum! I've done both and I liked both... :groner:



Why cast of course..

Casting is the finesse crowd :lol:

Swagers are the brutes of the crew with PSI issues. [smilie=2:


LOL

Steven

[Jim_Fleming]

azredneck:

Just imagine the quality of your work, ;) , if'n you were to make a nicely hollow based unjacketed wadcutter on your swaging equipment... :kidding:

For that matter guys, I've made JACKETED hollow base wadcutters, loaded them cavity forward and shot holes, yes cut holes in tire sidewalls... same principle as a cookie cutter 'cept at .357 magnum velocities... and yes they're danged accurate.

[Bent Ramrod]

I probably cast 100 boolits for each one I swage. It's easier to set up for casting (regardless of what Corbin says), and the production rate is higher, even with a single cavity mould and dipper. If I were to cut lead wire instead of casting cores, swaging would still take three more operations (core sizing, core seating and point forming), while casting only takes two (casting and sizing/lubing). Actually, there is sometimes another swaging operation, ironing the heads of the .22 jackets.

I also notice a higher level of concentration, even tension, when I am swaging, since it's much easier to do much more damage to very expensive dies than it is to a moderately expensive boolit mould during the operations. To me, casting is kind of restful; swaging, fascinating process though it is, I have to be "in the mood" for. I'll run off 200-250 swaged bullets and that will be my swaging fix for a year or so. I still buy jacketed bullets. Casting I keep coming back to, 100 or more at a time, regardless of how many I have in stock, and I've never bought a cast boolit.

People who swage bullets for sale generally either have special calibers only they supply (like DKT or Calhoon) or have gotten a reputation among the accuracy freaks (like Berger). They generally run a little to a lot more expensive than Speer/Hornady/Sierra offerings, and I still can't see how they sell them as cheap as they do. I suspect they are not making them on home equipment.

[tommygirlMT]

A couple of previous posters have mentioned swaging bullets as a commercial enterprise and how this differs from casting as a commercial enterprise including the previous poster.

I know of two commercial swagers up in my area. Montana Gold Bullets (MGB) and Northwest Custom Projectile (NwCP). The former is a small family owned company but they do have multiple employees and a fairly large shop. The latter is a one man operation. Both use heavy duty commercial grade hydrolic swaging machines.

MGB produces good bullets at a very reasonable price, quality is the same if not better then the big name companies. The low price up here is most likely due to shipping, warehousing, and distribution costs being low to non-existant due to the fact they are a local producer.

NwCP specializes in custom bullet types not produced by any of the big name companies and charges accordingly. His rebated boat-tail handgun bullets in 454-cal work really well out of the 460 cartridge producing noticable trajectory improvements for long range precision wheel gun shooting.

Point I'm trying to make is that swaging commercially either as a one man band producing "nitch" bullets or as a small business producing equivalent goods at a reasonable price for the local market is both feasible and profitable provided you have the right equipment. I know this because I am a loyal customer of both these companies and not without good reason.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I always wanted to try swaging, but it seemed to be much too expensive to jump into just to try.
I had some 38 C&H dies and half jackets back in the early 70's, and that didin't work so well on a Spartan press. Sold them at a gun show, and haven't ever seen anything similar since.

I enjoy casting as well- it's modern alchemy!

[Jim_Fleming]

Swaging makes a better more solid bullet...

Casting makes up for the wee loss of quality with a whole he double LL of more quantity...

Now, y'all please calm down... I don't wanna be flamed or torched, I like and love both means...

I am not a shabby caster and I can make .224 & .357 diameter copper pills...

In my heart of hearts, swaging makes a better blue pill... but by Jingo a cast pill isn't a whole heckuva lot too far behind...

[Southern Son]

Yes, I would rather cast or swage

+1.:mrgreen: I would much rather cast or swage, unfortunately, my work gets in the way.:drinks:

[Sixgun Symphony]

i don't want to burn myself casting boolits for the sake of saving a little money. It may be cheaper to buy than to make...


Just follow a few simple rules and you won't get burned.

1) wear protective clothing. Wear denim jeans & a longsleeved shirt. wear boots, gloves, and eye protection. Consider wearing the clear plastic face shield.

2)Cast outdoors on a clear, sunny day to avoid inhalation of fumes.

3)Don't eat, don't drink, and don't smoke when handling lead. Wash your hands when you are done.


Follow the above rules and you will be fine. :castmine:


As far as cost, LEE equipment is affordable and it produces good bullets. You can also buy used equipment at gunshows.

[montana_charlie]

I misread the title of this thread, and came looking for a different kind of discussion. But, since I was here, I read the whole thing...and have one question.

Do you guys plan to ever answer the OP's question?

Do you use pre-formed small chuncks of lead to swage? how does that work? can you just use scrap lead pipe? probably not... Please explain how swagging works, Thank You!

[mac0083]

Thank You MONTANA CHARLIE, but the good news is I found Corbins website and now I know the answer to my original question. But, what I learned raised so many more questions... Thanks again.

[testhop]

cast for me .
tried swaging diddnt like it .

[Dframe]

I have swaging equipment on order. High quality boolits are made by both methods. I wanted to try making them without all the heat and fumes. Plus I wanted a source of jacketed boolits for certain applications. I'll continue to cast.

[Fadi]

I think turbo hit it right on the head. Do I prefer a screwdriver or a hammer? It depends on what I'm trying to do.

My swaging experience is very limited (using a friend's equipment at his house), but I know enough to recognize the flexibility you would have if you were doing both.

[7of7]

I like swaging, as I don't have to mess around with an insanely hot liquid... I have done casting, and didn't mind doing it either...
With swaging, I cut a bunch of cores, on one day,.... later on in the week, I get around to swaging those to get them to the correct weight. Of course, I do quite a few at a time,... I also have everything set up so that when I cut the cores, I can just change the spacers to set up for a different core weight. That seems to make it fairly easy. I normally weigh each core until I get a good rythum going..
I get my jackets from Corbins, buy them by the box, and have to cut them to the correct length. Again, I have spacers for the length I need and I have a RCBS case prep machine that I have set up a case trim cutter and made up some extra long center pins so I can smooth the jacket mouths down, and it also helps get a consistent weight.. I normally will do this one process on a single day, that is just the cutting, then those will be stored in some bins....
If you haven't figured out, I am in no hurry to see how many I can produce, and how fast I can produce them...
I make flat base, and rebated boat tail 8S ogive bullets. 150 grain, 30 cal.
I make some 3/4E ogive 30 cal bullets in 110 and 130 grain. For a 30 carbine and a 30-30... 30-30's are sweet with a 130 grain bullet being pushed out by 35 grains of BL-C2 powder.... Good velocity, and accuracy with a shoot all day long recoil.....