RIA and lead bullet issues.

[Andrew Quigley]

Bought me a Rock Island Armory Goverment a month or two back and love it. It's shot well with Federal and other FMJ but I loaded up some rounds of 200gr bullets and it's given me trouble.
The first round might or might not chamber. If it doesn't then it's shaved a lip off about half way around that stops at the brass and won't let it chamber. The bullet usually sticks in the chamber and when I yank the slide back it pulls the brass off the bullet. Course then I got powder everywhere!
This is my first time loading 45 acp but been reloading other ammo for several years. My overal length isn't to long, the barrel slugs right at .451 and I'm sizing to .452.
My thinking is the feed ramp. It's smooth but I wonder if I shouldn't blend it in to the back of the barrel.
Thanks for any help.:drinks:

[462]

If the bullets are semi-wadcutters or hollow-points, the feed ramp, indeed, could be the culprit. If you plan on continuing to shoot cast, it would be an excellent idea to polish it. Just be careful to not remove any metal.

The case will need a tight taper crimp, too.

[S.R.Custom]

...it's shaved a lip off about half way around that stops at the brass and won't let it chamber. The bullet usually sticks in the chamber and when I yank the slide back it pulls the brass off the bullet....

What bullet are you loading?

The .45 ACP can't have any full diameter part of the bullet sticking outside of the case; all of the bearing surface must be inside the case. (.45s have a very short throat.) Depending upon the bullet, this will mean that the cartridge overall length may be significantly shorter than published max OAL.

Don't get into the feed ramp just yet.

[Andrew Quigley]

I'm using a 200gr rn. I might need to seat the bullet a lil' deeper. Overal length is 1.254. Using Lee dies but not a seperate crimp die.

[S.R.Custom]

That sounds a bit long for a bullet that light. The RIAs have a true mil-spec chamber --I have an RIA "A2"-- and they don't have much of a leade and don't tolerate long seatings very well at all. Try seating the bullet just deep enough to get all the bearing surface in the case, and then I think you'll feel the joy.

[Shiloh]

[QUOTE=462;606467]If the bullets are semi-wadcutters or hollow-points, the feed ramp, indeed, could be the culprit. If you plan on continuing to shoot cast, it would be an excellent idea to polish it. Just be careful to not remove any metal.

The case will need a tight taper crimp, too.[/QUOTE

Well said.

Polish what is there. If it is smooth, all the better. If there are tool marks, I would be hesitant to remove them. If you change the angles by removing metal
it may never work properly, even with mil-spec ball ammo.

Shiloh

[Andrew Quigley]

Well It turns out my bullets are the problem. I had a Lee conical bullet mold and thought these would work. But I compared these to a friends Lee 200gr for an acp and the the o-give on the conical is to long.
Also discovered that I need to size them at .451 and his 200's fall right into place. Size mine the conicals to .451 and I get the same problem I've been having. Tried making something work and it didn't. Lesson learned.
Thanks for the advice and help.

[leftiye]

I'd guess that the back edge of the barrel protrudes to the rear of the front edge of the feed ramp providing an overhang to catch the case mouth on.

[runfiverun]

leftiye just pointed out why i use a swc style boolit with a hint of a roll crimp on my boys 1911 not an actual crimp it just has to bump the case,in a separate step.
it helped his accuracy too,stupid guns....

[35remington]

The clues you have point to things other than the frame ramp or barrel ramp being the cause of your problems. Pulling the bullet on ejecting the round is your clue.

"My thinking is the feed ramp. It's smooth but I wonder if I shouldn't blend it in to the back of the barrel."

Don't do this!!!!

Don't touch the feed ramp; especially don't "blend" it into the back of the barrel.

First:

There's supposed to be a gap between the frame ramp and the barrel ramp. This is a clearance, not a feed guide. The gap is present so the nose of the bullet only brushes the top of the barrel ramp on the way into the chamber. "Blending" it in may cause the bullet nose to strike low on the barrel ramp, shoving it forward and causing a three point jam.

Keep the gap between frame ramp and barrel ramp! It is essential to proper 1911 functioning.

Second:

Moving the barrel ramp forward with the deadly dremel tool will lessen the case head support, possibly making your case more susceptible to blowouts.

Ill advised home shop butchery is the cause of more malfunctioning 1911's than any other factor.

If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, don't do it!

Overzealous "Polishing the feed ramp" has got more 1911's out of spec than any other cause. It doesn't have to shine like a mirror - it's better than the feed ramp angle is correct, and home butchery often ruins it. A highly polished barrel/frame ramp is seriously overrated.

Again, leave the gap between frame ramp and barrel ramp alone - they must NOT match.

Your bullet, as Supermag said, is engaging the rifling upon chambering. Pulling it out when ejecting the round is the clue. Pick a more suitable bullet or seat this one deeper.

Keep in mind that cartridges below 1.200" in overall length are really shorter than a 1911 was meant to feed. Trying to feed these short rounds has led us into the "improved" magazine mess we're in today, and we're much worse off for it.

Stick to standard lengths.

[Andrew Quigley]

Like I said the bullet was the problem. But it never got to the rifling. The bullet got shaved just before the case mouth on only half of the bullet. This caused a lip that would let the round go all the way into the chamber.
Once I tried my friends reloads the gun works fine. Have left these bullets for my c&b guns and have a new Lee 45acp mold on order.

[pdawg_shooter]

Right at the time I have 6 1911s. Over the years I can count 20+ I no longer have. I blended the frame feed ramp to the barrel on ALL of them. Feeding was 100% AFTER the work was done.
I also widened the relief cut in the barrel on all of them. When everything matched I then polished them. Improved feeding and function on every one.

[35remington]

Truly, a little knowledge about the 1911 is a dangerous thing.

Do NOT reduce the frame ramp/barrel ramp gap to zero. Some gap needs to be there.

The reasons why are below:

"The corner at the top of the feed ramp also must not be altered except when correcting the feed ramp angle. If the cartridge isn't deflected upward into the barrel ramp...often mistakenly referred to as the "Barrel Throat"...at a steep enough angle, it strikes the barrel ramp too low.

When it does that, it pushes the barrel forward...and when the barrel moves forward too early, it also cams UP too early. This increases the angle of cartridge entry and brings about the well-known Three-Point Jam. A too-long link has the same effect, but with different mechanics.

If the round hits the barrel ramp above center, it works to keep the barrel down against the frame bed, keeping the angle correct for the horizontal break-over and chambering. Once the cartridge is horizontal, or nearly so, and deep into the chamber, the barrel is free to cam into lockup. The noted gap between the lower edge of the barrel ramp and top corner of the frame ramp helps to insure that the cartridge will enter the barrel ramp above centerline and well forward of the corner. This is also an aid to keeping the barrel down in the bed during the initial feeding phase."

This statement is in the following thread about 1911 function: Controlled Feed Principles

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=9178&highlight=point

On this following thread, plead see post #8 explaining the function of the barrel ramp, and why the chance of the bullet striking low on the barrel ramp should be avoided at all costs (in other words, don't blend the frame and barrel ramps);

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=44125&highlight=1%2F32+barrel+frame+ramp

On this following thread, see the picture, and read posts #5 and #9 explaining the importance of the barrel ramp/frame ramp gap. Note how the insufficient frame ramp/barrel ramp is explained to be undesirable.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=32046&highlight=1%2F32+barrel+frame+ramp

Further reading on 1911 function:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=26853

Always keep this in mind:

"Remember that the barrel ramp is a clearance, and not a feedway or bullet guide...and it'll start to make more sense when you visualize the function."

When you can find a knowledgeable authority that suggests reducing the barrel ramp/frame ramp gap to nothing is a good idea, let me know. Good luck. You won't find it.

The truly expert would never suggest such a thing; I'd suggest you pay attention to those previous threads on this site: m1911.org. They're much better able to adress the 1911's operating parameters and specifications than home hobbyists and fly by night "experts."

Never trust the advice of hockshop butchers, and leave the ramps and barrel ramp/frame ramp gap alone unless you know what you're doing.

As I said, many 1911 problems in function can be misdiagnosed, and there's no problem an ill advised amateur cannot make worse when he doesn't know what he's doing.

[wolfman]

I had the same problem -w- my Lee 200g SWC and found I had to seat the bullett to a shorter OAL than usual. Seems if you leave the squared off shoulder of the WC sticking too far out of the case, it will catch and stick in the chamber, just before the rifleing begins. Try this, take the barrel out of your gun, and drop a finished round in the chamber and push lightly, then pull it out, if it sticks, put the round back in your seating die, and gradually reduce the OAL until it no longer sticks in the chamber.

[docone31]

You tried conicals!
I am glad the cavity in the casting did not create an over pressure charge.
I use the 200gn RF Lee Mold.
Great stuff, will not work in my cap and balls though.

[MtGun44]

Seat the boolit about .010-.020 deeper and try that.
Very likely the whole problem.

Are you taper crimping? If not, buy a taper crimp die (NOT Lee FCD) and add a moderate
taper crimp (about half the thickness of the brass case mouth pressed into the
boolit) for best reliability.

Too long a boolit seating depth and not taper crimping are the biggest problems that
people have loading for the 1911 in .45 ACP.

Trust me, these two steps will have a very high probability of solving your problems.

Bill