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View Full Version : need help with new boolit lube idea...



redneckdan
03-19-2006, 09:09 PM
I'm looking fer a source of bulk quantities of petroleum jelly and paraffin wax. any ideas?

Blackwater
03-20-2006, 03:14 AM
Dan, I hope this isn't oversimplifying, but does a jar of the stuff have the mfg's address or phone number on it? I'm too lazy to go get my jar and see right now, but it might be a start. What quantity are we talking about here?

Frank46
03-20-2006, 03:35 AM
You can get the parafin wax in most any chain food store, its used for canning food. Four slabs in a one pound box. Petroleum jelly also can be bought in one pound jars. How much of this stuff are you looking for?. Frank

versifier
03-20-2006, 04:22 PM
Parafin in large quantities can be gotten from candle making suppliers.

KCSO
03-20-2006, 04:48 PM
I have a box of 50 pounds, will that do it?

redneckdan
03-20-2006, 11:16 PM
I need only small quantities for getting the mix right, but once I get the mix, I would be ordering in 50 to 100 pound batches. I'm still working on the chemistry with my professor but I think this will work. I'll keep you posted.

jcork
03-21-2006, 09:49 AM
Don't forget to assign a good TLA (three letter acronym) to the project. And make sure you use some scarce and unusual ingredients like 'spider snot' to make it mysterious, and tie it to an untraceable historical reference like '.. based on a WW2 formula used in the Alps ..'.

Frank46
03-22-2006, 03:38 AM
Maybe using the words "vintage" or "rare" ingredients would work also. frank

redneckdan
03-27-2006, 01:22 PM
I found a whole shizz load of paraffin fer free! Here at MTU there is a yearly event called winter carneval. All the student groups build snow statues and they make title plates to go on the statues. I was wandering around campus last night and noticed some white stuff laying on one of the lawns. Upon closer inspection I relized it was paraffin, then I remembered the chunk looked like the letters on the statues. I checked every statue location and netted about 25 pounds of paraffin. now I just need to compile the rst of the ingredients.

redneckdan
03-27-2006, 01:22 PM
I found a whole shizz load of paraffin fer free! Here at MTU there is a yearly event called winter carneval. All the student groups build snow statues and they make title plates to go on the statues. I was wandering around campus last night and noticed some white stuff laying on one of the lawns. Upon closer inspection I relized it was paraffin, then I remembered the chunk looked like the letters on the statues. I checked every statue location and netted about 25 pounds of paraffin. now I just need to compile the rst of the ingredients.

BAGTIC
03-27-2006, 03:56 PM
The are many different grades of 'paraffin wax'. While most people are familiar with the paraffin wax used for candles or sealing jelly jars seeing the term 'parafin wax' on a label or recipe does not necessarily mean it is the same substance.

redneckdan
03-30-2006, 12:25 PM
they actually buy the bars of wax used fer canning, expensive but I guess it works well fer them.

357maximum
04-01-2006, 01:19 AM
In my opinion unless you are only striving for a slow pistol lube you are wasting your time with parraffin, you would be served better by using beeswax, or microcrystalline wax. I have done alot of playing with lubes and parraffin always failed as a main ingredient. Any concoction I have tried with more than 15 percent parraffin has failed to reach rifle velocities. Try mixing this one up and see if it serves you for the higher end loads:


1 lb beeswax
1 TBLSP vaseline
1 teaspoon johnson paste wax


This would be considered a hard lube, but the addition of more vaseline would make it softer to suit your desires. The johnsons might not be totally neccessary, but I think it helps to keep the bore shiny. Whatever you do do not add a penetrating oil like kroil to a lube, it must actually enter the pores of the bullet, cause it has caused leading in recipes that previously did not lead. Keep the kroil for cleaning that is where it shines.

hope this helps, just my 3.5 cents worth

redneckdan
04-01-2006, 03:48 AM
i primarily shoot .45 acp, what I'm after is a homebrew version of lee liquid alox. I'm pretty sure parraffin is souluble in kerosene, there fore a paraffin based lube might disolve into kerosene and be useable as a tumble lube.

Cayoot
04-01-2006, 09:30 AM
i primarily shoot .45 acp, what I'm after is a homebrew version of lee liquid alox. I'm pretty sure parraffin is souluble in kerosene, there fore a paraffin based lube might disolve into kerosene and be useable as a tumble lube.


Correct me if I'm wrong here (I usually am it seems[smilie=1: ), but it seems that just using "Johnson's Floor Wax" warmed up would make a fine tumble lube as is. That is no other ingredients needed or added.

But I'm paranoid about leading...I always size/lube, then tumble lube (with a thin coat of Liq Alox) after applying the size/lube operation. So I am not one to know how well a single lube would work against leading anyways.

Of course, I haven't tried Johnsons yet, I'm planning to try it when the current bottle of Liquid Alox runs out.

357maximum
04-01-2006, 09:18 PM
OK, I see where you are at now.....

Parraffin will more than likely dissapoint you, eventually.


I have not tried solvent based lubes other than LLA, Johnsons


If I were to do this, I personally would either buy pure alox 350 (contact LAR ) and mix it to suit with odorless mineral spirits, or

Try to cut beeswax with the mineral spirits, or microwax B845 from candle wic's website.

In my hard lubes the bwax, microwaxb845 have proven themselves time and again. Large percentages of parraffin have ALWAYS led to dissapointment. Parraffin will start to soot, then lead will adhere, and then will adhere, then lead will adhere, next thing you know you have a badly leaded barrel and accuracy goes awry. Even with properly fitted boolits.

<More than likely a generous coating of Johnsons Paste Wax will serve you well for what you are trying to do.


I am a pup compared to some here, but I have done alot of playing with lube maybe one of the old farts, ahem, more senior members can shine more light on this for you.

redneckdan
04-02-2006, 12:09 AM
ok, I'll look for some johnsons wax, I tried disolving beeswax based lube into gasoline (all I had handy) but it didn't work. I'm kinda leary of alox, seems there are some carcinogen concerns.

waksupi
04-02-2006, 03:11 AM
I remember we had discussed various waxes on the old Aimoo board. You may wish to look into microchrystalline waxes for your lube project, rather than parrafin. I don't know if the old board is still up, so you could do a search there, or not. It seems we got into it somewhat deeply.

357maximum
04-02-2006, 11:07 PM
I may be way off base here, but I believe the cancer concerns were with the old 12whatever series alox. I believe the alox 350 was produced to fix this, and is safe. Seems I read this some where, but may have pulled it out of thin air while sleeping.

redneckdan
04-02-2006, 11:26 PM
i'll have to check into it, the MTU library archive has a complete listing of all MSDS ever made.

357maximum
04-05-2006, 07:52 PM
Redneck whatcha think of this
http://www.fullcircleherbs.com/wp/?p=80

This might help you get where ya wanna go?

Just a thunkin..

redneckdan
04-05-2006, 11:45 PM
awesome, that sould help imensly. thanks.

357maximum
04-07-2006, 04:57 PM
glad to know i am not the only one with the whole I cannot turn my brain off when it gets stuck somewhere problem. My wife said I have intermittent O.C.D, but it only kicks in when it comes to my projects. She said when it comes to her projects I have amnesia, and a little dysxlexia. She may very well be right.

redneckdan
04-08-2006, 03:47 AM
glad to know i am not the only one with the whole I cannot turn my brain off when it gets stuck somewhere problem...

I have the same problem. My room mate says I engineer in my sleep, everything from snowmobile track attack angles to wildcat cartridges. Usually every morning he askes me something like "what is cutter rake angle?" or "What does 75% shift out mean?" I've been know to bolt upright from dead sleep, run to the drafting table and start cranking out drawings at 4 in the morning.

ovendoctor
04-08-2006, 09:36 AM
must be an defect in the geans, this makes 4 generations of midnight engineering:-D
:redneck:

:castmine:

felix
04-08-2006, 10:27 AM
Pick the microwax with the lowest melting point when more than one kind is offered. Microwax is typically a paraffin with smaller granules, and just how small determines the melting point. Smaller the granules, higher the melting point, and higher the viscosity. Keep the proportion of paraffin to beeswax to be as small as possible maintaining accuracy in the smallest bore that the lube will be applied. ... felix

StarMetal
04-08-2006, 11:53 AM
Felix is right about the crystals being smaller in micro wax, but microcrystalline waxes are not just pure paraffin, they have chemicals added to them to change their characteristics such as: Polywax@Polyethylene and Vybar@Polyolefin. When I worked at the Sunoco Oil Refinery in Tulsa, Ok, my unit was responsible for separatine paraffin from the oil. I remember we use to add additives to the wax from 100 lb bags. Then it went to the wax unit where they did further things to it that I don't know of.

Joe

lovedogs
04-08-2006, 11:59 PM
I read somewhere on this forum about LAR45 and his lubes. I e-mailed and called him and have a sample on the way. If his lube works I don't know why anyone would want to make their own. His prices are so reasonable I doubt you could do better. I'll comment on how it works after I try it.

357maximum
04-09-2006, 01:30 AM
LOVEDOGS

If you are willing to invest several hundred dollars in supplies and willing to test,test test you can get somewhat close to lars stuff, but that same dollars would buy a ell of a lot of lars lube.

If I had to do it again I would just buy LARS red lube and alot of it. He is getting a famous following and I cannot see how he sells it for what he does, so I think I would squirrel a bunch of it away before he makes the true big time, or realizes how good his stuff really is and or has to start paying more for raw ingredients. As soon as I can swing it I am going to buy another bunch from him, just because I cannot make my lubes for what he sells his for. He will even sell it in baggies for a discount price, those fancy tubes are kind of nice though. How he makes a profit totally mystifies me. he must buy all his ingredients by the truckload.

lar45
05-02-2006, 12:51 AM
Hi guys. I've been too busy to drop in here much lately. I do buy my stuff in BULK. My Alox 350 comes in a 55 gal drum. If you want some to play with, I have some qt metal paint style cans I can fill and send out. Don't get your mix too hot with the Alox, it will turn to a heavy tar goo on the bottom of the pan.

I'll let you guys in on one of my secrets. Cooking time. When ever you hear guys talking about pan lubeing and how it gets better every time they melt and pour?? Sounds to me like it wasn't cooked long enough the first time. I leave my lube on the heat for atleast 12 hours to ensure everything is as mixed as it's going to be. Make sure the setting is low enough that you can leave it alone without worrying.

I can buy Liquid Alox in bulk(55 gal), but the price is still more than Lee sells it for.

I've shot my Alox lubes to 2500fps in the 06 without any problems. My High Speed Carnauba Red lube has gone to 2700fps.

For melting Beeswax in a hurry, try a gas stove top. Once it gets warm and started melting, turn it all the way down to lo and it will melt without scorching. Your stove may be different, so check it often.

If your adding Murphy's oil soap to a mixture, check the temp before you start. If it's hot(200F +), the soap will boil instantly and foam all over the place!!!

The wife did stay up and keep me company while I stripped and cleaned the entire gas range. Lesson? do the final mixing outside and add the Murphy's in a little at a time.

Take care and have fun.
If you e-mail, make sure the subject line says what it's about. I get swamped and sometimes sort by subject line. idahobronco@aol.com
Glenn.

kodiak1
05-07-2006, 08:52 PM
dan just a moot point the carsonagenics you were worried about? This is going on lead is it not?
sorry just mulling that over in my mind. Ken.

redneckdan
05-07-2006, 09:03 PM
dan just a moot point the carsonagenics you were worried about? This is going on lead is it not?
sorry just mulling that over in my mind. Ken.


tis true, but I think there is more alox in the air then lead