Winchester NRA Commemorative 30-30

[tejano]

I bought one last week. It has a 24" barrel and was obviously shot. Since it is my first 30-30 (not sure why) and I do not yet have reloading stuff for it I bought a box of Ultramax Cowboy 30-30 Win 165gr RNFP. Supposedly the velocity is in the 1200 fps. I took it to the range this morning and this ammo shot way low. Even at the highest setting, it shot 3" to 4" low at 50 yards. This ammo was indeed disappointing but at least I have 20 rounds of brass to start out my reloading with.

Also, the factory sights are not satisfactory for my 58 year old eyes so I am open to suggestions for replacement sights from those of you who have non-AE Winchesters. I understand that Williams makes a receiver sight /front firesight combo for Winchesters, and this is already drilled and tapped on the left side of the receiver.

Suggestions/opinions please. :roll:

[HeavyMetal]

If your 94 is already drilled and tapped, and the bolt pattern match's, I'd put a Williams "FoolProof" on it in a heartbeat!

The firesight will also be easier for you to pick up as well.

1200 FPS out of a 24 inch Barrel? I had heard cowboy stuff was soft but thats really soft!

[runfiverun]

peep and dot with a changeable aperture best sight combo for a levergun out there unless you want to shoot 500 yds.

[scrapcan]

the rifle is drilled tapped for williams or lyman aperture sight. I have the same rifle tha tcame to me after firing half a box.

If you put an apreture on it make sure you leave the front sight hood on it and then take original rear sight off and put a slot blank in it.

To make it even better buy an adjustable iris for the aperture. They are a bit pricey but worth every penny. You can then adjust the opening for lght conditions.

[tejano]

Manleyjt, which sight did you put on yours, and would you pick the same one again? Also, why is it important to leave the front sight hood on? At the range, the hood obscured the top half of the target. As for the adjustable irs aperture, did you mean Merit Corporation? Thanks.

[Junior1942]

Take the hood off for hunting and target shooting. Put it back on when you're through. That's the Voice Of Experience talkin'. My rifle slipped when I put it in a corner and broke the front Fire Sight.

[runfiverun]

it also shades the front sight, so it don't pick up the sun and move your point of impact around from glare.

[pietro]

A solid hood. installed over a fiber-optic sight like the FireSight, will shade it enough to cripple it's light-gathering, and it will lose it's light & go dark - just as they do when legal shooting hours have passed.

For those who don't want the bother of on/off/on/off/etc, the trusty Dremel tool can be used to cut a moonroof into the solid hood - which will then both protect AND serve. ;)

I "adjust" my apertures via installing an aperture for zeroing/target shooting, then removing it and shooting through the resulting "ghost ring" when hunting - not pricey at all.

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[tejano]

sounds like plan. thanks pietro. A williams receiver/firesight is on it way.

[scrapcan]

I put the williams foolproof on and yes I would do it again. I opt for not using the fiber optic sight and used the factory front.

I was taught to shoot shoot target rifles with a target front and aperture rear. You can use the front hood like a target front. double circle type sight picture. For a woods gun if the double circle is full you are most likely on target. On targets if the double circle is full or an even outline of non black you are on target. It is a quick and fast sight picture for me.

If you leave the factory rear sight on the rifle it may cause sighting problems. I could see the rear sight when using the aperture.

I have my own reasons for not liking the fiber optic front, but I will not bore anyone else with that.

[Larry Gibson]

I have been using M94s since I was 12 years old. Best thing I ever did was put Lyman 66 reciever sights on them. If your rifle is D&T'd it will fit right on. I also prefer a post front sight with the hood left on. I see Midway lists a Patrirdge style front sight that should be just the ticket. I like to file them down until the tip is centered in the hood ala an aperture front sight. I've then not had problems with zeroing even the fastest light weight bullet loads and there is plenty of adjustment for the slowest cast bullet loads. The Lyman 66 is very quick and easy to adjust vs the Williams. The Williams is fine if you're using one bullet/load and won't adjust the sights after zeroing. However if you are going to change bullets and loads just playing around with the rifle the Lyman is much better.

I passed on a NRA M94 like yours some years back and regretted it ever since. However a couple years back I found a very nice M94AE Black Shadow which is essentially the same rifle except it has synthetic stocks. I've put the Lyman 66 and a post front on it and find it works very well. I've the same set up on the M94 Carbine I got for my 14th birthday.

BTW; the Merit smaller diamter "hunting" adjustable aperture is just the ticket for old eyes when using reciever sights. You can open or close the aperture to fit light conditions and bring the front sight into focus. Any more I wouldn't be without one on any reciver sight.

Larry Gibson

[tejano]

Larry, I like your idea. I looked on the Midway website and did not see a Lyman 66, but I that is available elsewhere. However, I did see two Brockman patridge sights listed on Midway. Did you go with one of those? I prefer a skinny post.

BTW, I stopped by my favorite sin store after work today and came home with a '94 .356 Winchester AE and a box of pricey Win. factory ammo. It must be an early production (SR# 13XXX) because it does not have a cross-bolt or tang safety. It is not D&T'd on the side of the receiver so the Williams or XS are probably the only receiver sight options for it.:-D

[Larry Gibson]

tejano

Midway's product # for the M66 sight for the M94 is 716-636. Yes I went with the Brockman on my M94AE but with it's longer 24" barrel the front sight looks skinny out there. It shouldn't be too hard to thin it for the shorter 20" barrel to suit ones taste, I have done that on numerous front sights. A good sharp file with a blanck edge is all that's required., file a bit then look see. The M94AE I got has the cross bolt safety (I negated it) and was not D&T'd for the reciever sight either. I D&T'd it myself (I have the right tools) but a gunsmith shouldn't charge too much. Just make sure the gunsmith understands the base needs to be low so the lip on the base is at the top edge of the left edge of the reciever (picture attached). I've seen a couple where that detail was not adhered to and the result was a base too high.

Larry Gibson

[pietro]

The Williams top-mount peeps for the 94AE, the 5D-94AE or FP-94AE both will carry the aperture as low as a side-mount peep, w/o having to D/T the side of the AE receiver.

The reason is that the William's mounts in the top scope mount holes, and extends down the left receiver wall and also rearward - where the rear portion carries the sliding sighting bar so that it travels, and is positioned behind, the front portion, in it's lowest position.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0385.jpg

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[tejano]

I am going to try one of each. The Lyman will go on the NRA Commemorative since it is D&T'd and the Williams on the .356 Win. AE. that has the holes on top :-D

[pmeisel]

Tell us how you like each of them when you get it done!

[tejano]

I will. I placed an order with Midway for the Lyman 66A/Brockman sights last night. Since the Williams FP for the .356 and a couple of other things that I wanted are "on backorder" at the moment, I decided to not place that order just yet. I will check again next week to see when the expected "available" date is. I will post photos of each as they get done. Thanks to everyone for the hand in making a decision on these. 8-)

[tejano]

Midway order arrived by mid week--quick as always. Yesterday evening, installation of the Lyman 66A was simple. However, the head of the sight elevation screw sheared off during the first trial adjustment. This is all happened in less than 15 minutes. I think this is only the second time that I will have returned (on Monday) an item to Midway for replacement, but it is still somewhat aggravating. The Williams Firesight FP for the .356 AE is still on backorder as are the RCBS Cowboys dies in 30WCF. Patience, right? On the positive side my order for .356 brass (200) did arrive from Buffalo Arms.

:(

[pietro]

BTW - Below is what I referred to in my earlier post above, about modifying a sight hood to illuminate fiber-optic front sights.

It's a new item, the Williams FireSight Ramp Hood - $10.50,
Item #70031

This one's on a .22, but the principle's the same, and can be done to any hood with a dremel tool or a hand file.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/sheriff160/IMG_0380.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/sheriff160/IMG_0382.jpg

[wmitty]

Nice milling job! Did you do this freehand?

[tejano]

agree. well done pietro!

[pietro]

Thank you, but it's not mine.
As posted, it's a new item from Williams.

I've done the same for hoods destined for the guns of others, but not mine.

None of my rifles wears a front sight hood, as IMHO, they are great scrounge box fillers. ;) That is where every single one of mine goes as soon as I get the rifle home.
YMMV, of course.

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