.45 ACP 200gr SWC load?

[VHinch]

I'd like to work up a reasonably hot .45 ACP 200gr SWC load. I'm familiar with the Cooper load of 7.3(?) grains of Unique under a 215gr wadcutter, and if I recall that load should run up close to 1100 fps from a 5" barrel, but I'd like to tweak that one a tad.

I'll be using a 200gr cast SWC, and I'm not a big fan of Unique, I'd prefer to use either Bullseye or Red Dot. I'd also like to keep the velocity around 950 or so.

I'm sure someone's already thought this one through and done some of the leg work, anyone have a similar successful load they'll share?

[zomby woof]

My Bullseye load for 200 SWC was 4.0-4.2 grns WST. It's not 950 FPS but very accurate.

[ddeaton]

3.7 grs Bullseye for me. I run this in my iron sight pistol. 4.1 grs Bullseye in my red dot pistol. Need a little more umph to run the heavy slide on that one. Of course use lighter springs to match these loads. These loads along with Mihec's 68 clone mold is a killer target load.

[Larry Gibson]

Well, if I recall the Cooper load was 7.5 gr of Unique under a 200/205 gr SWC (preferably the original FB'd H&G 68). I've shot thousands of them in numerous M1911s over the years and that load generally runs 1050 fps out of most 5" barrels. I prefer a 18 - 22 lb recoil spring and a buffere with that load. Very accurate and deadly on jack rabbits and othe critters. Would be/is a good defense load also.

However I most shoot the 200/205 gr SWCs over 5 gr of Bullseye which also is very accurate , makes major for IPSC and is a good defense/hunting load. Velocity runs right at 900 fps from most 5" m1911s and 920 fps from my 5.75" Wilson Comp barrel.

Larry Gibson

[JIMinPHX]

I've had good luck with 4.7 grains of Bullseye at around 850fps with a 200gr LSWC in a .45acp.

The hottest book data that I have for Bullseye & a 200 gr LSWC in that cartridge is in my Hornady book. They list a top load of 6.3 grains Bullseye for around 1000fps. Now that is with a Hornady LSWC that has the criss-cross pattern on the bearing surface. I don't know how well that data will transfer to other LSWC designs. The Hornady book also shows a top load of 6.8 gr of Unique giving around 1,000fps.

If you would consider going to a different powder, my Lyman book shows a top load of 10.6 grains Blue Dot giving just over 1,000fps with their #452460 200gr (#2 alloy) LSWC @17,200CUP. Lyman also shows a top load of 7.5 gr. Unique giving 980fps @ 16,600 CUP.

Edit:
I just noticed that this is your first post, so I don't know how experienced you are with reloading. The loads I listed as top loads are maximums to be approached slowly & with caution while looking for signs of high pressure. If any of this is less than crystal clear to you, then please ask lots of questions.

Thanks,
Jim

& welcome to the board. :Fire:

[windrider919]

I used Unique for 45ACP loads since 1973, 6.0gr for 200gr LSWC was THE standard load. But last year I switched to Universal with 6.3 gr. It is a full bore 1000FPS in a 5" barrel. It burns cleaner and is just a tad more accurate. I personally stear clear of Blue Dot because it has a history of erratic pressure in semi-auto pistols. In fact the manufacturer recommended in the past NOT using Blue Dot in 45ACP. Besides which in my tests it just was not as accurate as some other powders.

I use a 18lb spring and a Sprinco recoil reducer to keep down frame battering since I shoot all defense level loads, not target loads. "Shoot what you would bring to a gun fight."

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/recoilreducerspring2.jpg

[leadman]

I have used Blue Dot in the 45acp semi-auto with no problems and very good accuracy.

In a recent conversation with Alliant, the only cartridges that had restrictions on loading were the 357 magnum with 125 gr. jacket bullets and all loads for the 41 magnum. This info was also published in magazines.

I used a load in my custom Contender barrel in 45acp with the 185 gr. jacketed and a large amount of Blue Dot. Enough to push it to 1,800 fps. Not for semiautos, but was fun.

[NHlever]

I used HS-6 for the faster loads in my last 1911, and liked it for that purpose. It seemed easier on the gun, dumped all the empties in the same place, and was accurate.

[VHinch]

However I most shoot the 200/205 gr SWCs over 5 gr of Bullseye which also is very accurate , makes major for IPSC and is a good defense/hunting load. Velocity runs right at 900 fps from most 5" m1911s and 920 fps from my 5.75" Wilson Comp barrel.

Larry Gibson

That sounds like a pretty good starting point. I'm not too terribly hung up on 950fps, 900 should serve the purpose.

My goal here is to create a do all load for .45. If it works, this would be what I practice, train, and carry with, which is why I used the example of the Cooper load as a baseline. I shoot approximately 12k rounds a year, most of it in .45, and probably 8-9k of it being my own reloads, so having one load has some appeal to me.


If you would consider going to a different powder, my Lyman book shows a top load of 10.6 grains Blue Dot giving just over 1,000fps with their #452460 200gr (#2 alloy) LSWC @17,200CUP. Lyman also shows a top load of 7.5 gr. Unique giving 980fps @ 16,600 CUP.


Not totally opposed to branching out on powders, but I load of ton of Bullseye and Red Dot already so I have large quantities of each on hand.



I just noticed that this is your first post, so I don't know how experienced you are with reloading. The loads I listed as top loads are maximums to be approached slowly & with caution while looking for signs of high pressure. If any of this is less than crystal clear to you, then please ask lots of questions.


First post here, been lurking for a while. I've been reloading for almost 10 years, but have loaded exclusively .45 and .38/.357 during that time. In .45 I have traditionally loaded only FMJ and LRN, and have just recently began working with the 200gr SWCs.

[Bull Shoals]

VHinch,
I use 5.0 grs of Bullseye and chrony that load out of my 80 series Colt 5" at 875 fps. Very accurate at 25 yds. Have not shot it at 50 yds.

[softpoint]

A load that uses a different powder, that I've had good luck with in numerous 1911's and my 625's is 6 gr. ww231. Might could work up a tad from that if you wanted

[jsizemore]

4.5 grs of Red Dot and it burns real clean.

[JIMinPHX]

W-231 was my original go-to powder for the .45acp about 20-something years ago. Then when 231 dried up for a while, I switched over to Bullseye & that has been my standard powder ever since. I had good luck with blue dot under hot loaded 230-grain HPs @ 950+fps, but that is all I ever used blue dot for in the .45. Bullseye also worked well in that same application & gave similar speeds.

Across the board, blue dot seems to work fairly well for me as long as the powder charge is kept on the warm side. When you start downloading blue dot, spooky things sometimes start to happen. Blue Dot is a bit expensive to use, as you need a lot of it to do the same job that a little Bullseye does. When my can of Blue Dot runs out, I'm probably not going to replace it. I have also seen other people get very good results from Tight Group in the .45acp.

[Dale53]

Here is Hodgdon's data:

200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR 800-X .451" 1.225" 6.9 861 12,200 CUP 7.7 958 15,700 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR SR 4756 .451" 1.225" 7.4 875 13,500 CUP 8.2 966 17,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .451" 1.225" 8.2 860 14,400 CUP 8.4 907 16,300 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester AutoComp .451" 1.225" 6.5 843 11,500 CUP 7.2 914 15,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Universal .451" 1.225" 5.8 889 13,900 CUP 6.3 962 16,800 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester WSF .451" 1.225" 6.0 870 15,200 CUP 6.7 970 19,400 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .451" 1.225" 4.4 771 11,000 CUP 5.6 914 16,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR SR 7625 .451" 1.225" 6.2 836 13,000 CUP 6.9 952 17,200 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR PB .451" 1.225" 5.2 831 12,200 CUP 5.7 915 15,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester WST .451" 1.225" 4.4 830 15,400 CUP 5.1 910 19,900 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR Trail Boss .451" 1.225" 3.5 652 9,200 CUP 5.5 816 16,100 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.225" 4.8 877 13,400 CUP 5.4 957 16,800 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC IMR 700-X .451" 1.225" 4.6 821 12,100 CUP 5.3 921 16,300 CUP
200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Clays .451" 1.225" 3.6 759 11,800 CUP 4.3 888 17,000 CUP

Keep in mind that different 200 gr SWC bullets can create serious pressure differences. As a for instance, the H&G #130 seats MUCH deeper in the relatively small capacity .45 ACP case compared to its companion H&G #68. Both run just under 200 grs in my alloy but the pressure difference is measurable (from .5 gr to as much as 1.0 gr difference).

I would suggest the #68 bullet to be a better bullet design for FULL charge loads. You can safely run that one in the above Hodgdon Data and get expected results. It is ALWAYS better to chronograph the load in YOUR pistol to make certain (if you have access to a chronograph). If you are using Hodgdon's data, Titegroup is an excellent choice for the 950 fps area as is 7625 (I have shot a bushel basket of 7625 through my IPSC guns). For slightly less velocity, Win 231 or HP38 (the same thing these days) will give you excellent results and of course with excellent metering in a progressive (as does 7625 and Titegroup). Titegroup is probably the best choice in this group (all are pretty dern good, however) as it ignites easily, measures like water, is position insensitive, and gives the desired velocity at safe pressures.

YMMV
Dale53

[VHinch]

4.5 grs of Red Dot and it burns real clean.

Have you chrono'd this load by chance?

[pdawg_shooter]

I use 8.7gr of AA #5. works great and is accurate.

[35remington]

I know you're asking about other powders, and I'll get to that in a minute-this isn't a thread hijack. However, this needed saying.

I'd advise caution with any load of 7+ grains Unique and a 200 SWC of the H&G 68 pattern.

There's no question the loadings of past years used volumes approximating this level, but I have some doubts about its suitability now, and its correctness for long term use in a 1911. The comment about bullet design variances influencing velocities is especially pertinent here.

The reason I say that is in my own 1911, 7.3 grains Unique (NEW cleaner burning labeling) produced over 1140-1150 fps with a 200 grain Lee SWC of the HG 68 pattern loaded to 1.250" OAL, and over 1085 fps in my 5 inch 625 revolver, which typically gives velocities somewhat lower than a five inch 1911.

That's not something I'd fire for everyday use in a 1911, no matter how it was sprung. FWIW, over springing a 1911 to compensate for "heavy loads" may lead to malfunctions wherein the slide starts outrunning the magazine, and bolt over base misfeeds may occur. The probability of this particular type of malfunction occurring increases with the increase of recoil spring poundage ratings, especially with notoriously undersprung magazine brands that try to cram 8 shots in a flush fit magazine. With properly sprung seven shot magazines it is much less of a problem and the heavier recoil spring weights can be used within reasonable poundages.

I'd start with lighter loads initially, and adjust after chronograph results show you which way to go. My suggestion is to start in the six grain range, and likely you'll end up in the 6.5 grain vicinity for near 1000 fps from a five inch 1911.

FWIW, 6.5 Unique, the Lee bullet above loaded to 1.250" and shot in my 4 inch Ruger P97 obtained the following velocities:
948
949
959
971
957

As for Red Dot, I find that it makes an economical 45 ACP powder that gets good velocities at low charge weights. It gets higher velocities than Bullseye with same charge weights, which seems to confirm the claim it burns faster than Bullseye in metallic cartridges.

5.2 Red Dot with the same Lee HG pattern 200 SWC mentioned above loaded to 1.250" gets the following velocities from a 5 inch 1911:
956
971
962
965
970

In the FWIW category, same bullet, charge of 4.0-4.1 grains Red Dot (my fixed cavity throws a "tweener" weight that's not a round figure):
805
821
822
819
828
837
829

On edit: Larry's recommendation of Bullseye is certainly a good one and +1 from me and no, I'm not waffling. The advantage to Bullseye is that it meters somewhat better than Red Dot, but RD meters sufficiently well for full power loads that you envision, and despite "metering" differences variations in velocity are no greater than powders that "meter better."

In addition, you'll likely not double charge a case with about 4.5 grains or more of Red Dot due to its bulk making a double charge visually apparent. This helps reduce velocity variations too.

Of course, double charging a case with 5.0 grains Bullseye isn't likely either if you make any attempt to look at case fill before you seat the bullet, but it is possible with a target load double charge of 3.5 grains. At these very light levels Bullseye is superior to Red Dot IMO as some measure openings will bridge the charge of Red Dot and throw the occasional squib - happens with any relatively large flake powder. I never use Red Dot in charges of 3.5 grains or less, and really prefer the lightest used to be 4.0 grains or more.

That's light enough anyway.

[softpoint]

IMHO, 1000fps. is the upper level for any 200gr.SWC in the 1911 before you start to beat up your pistol. A friend and I played with the .45 Super 3 years ago, with springs up to 32lbs. We abandoned that round as being too hard on a 1911 platform. I still shoot .45 Super on occasion in my 625's. :)

[Dale53]

I would like to second 35Reminton's suggestions. They make good sense. My personal limit with the H&G #68 is 1000 fps in a .45 Auto (1911 platform). I personally know of one slide cracked in three places trying to run a H&G #130 too fast (using data meant for the #68).

Frankly, nothing you are apt to shoot with this load will be able to tell the difference between 1000 fps or 1100 fps. It's not worth the risk of damaging your 1911.

Most of my .45 ACP and Auto Rim cartridges, these days, are at target velocities (4.0 gr of Bullseye or equivalent) whether in my 1911's or my 625's.

Dale53

[VHinch]

35remington- Great post, thanks.

Couldn't agree more on keeping the velocity below 1000fps, for all the reasons mentioned. My target velocity is 950, and I think I'd be satisfied anywhere in the 900+ range.

I've rolled up several test rounds this evening, and I'll be getting to the range over the next day or so to test.

So far, I've loaded 10 each of the following for both Bullseye and Red Dot, all matching headstamps and weighing each charge to ensure precision for the sake of consistency in testing.

4.5 - I'm sure this is too light, but for starting low for safety
4.7
5.0
5.1
5.2

I like Bullseye, and I've shot a ton of it over the years, but I'm really hoping for the Red Dot to work out best, as I seem to find more accurate loads with it. I also have nice sized quantities of both it and Promo on hand, which is another plus.

[VHinch]

5.2 Red Dot with the same Lee HG pattern 200 SWC mentioned above loaded to 1.250" gets the following velocities from a 5 inch 1911:
956
971
962
965
970



This looks like exactly where I want to be. As I work up, this one is in the back of my mind.

Slightly shifting gears, anyone have thoughts on what I'm working toward here?


My goal here is to create a do all load for .45. If it works, this would be what I practice, train, and carry with, which is why I used the example of the Cooper load as a baseline. I shoot approximately 12k rounds a year, most of it in .45, and probably 8-9k of it being my own reloads, so having one load has some appeal to me.

If it works in both accuracy and performance testing, seems like having one go to load would certainly have it's merits.

[jsizemore]

Have you chrono'd this load by chance?

Chrono'd it this morning. First clip avg. velocity 835.6. Second was 862.
This is mixed headstamp brass that's been fired many times in this gun over the past 12 years. All powder dropped from a Harrell's powder measure. Practiced with my digital scale and found I got the most consistent powder drop with a double tap at the top of the stroke. extreme spread was about 39 fps in each clip and that was reflected in the accuracy of powder measure to meter Promo (Red Dot direct substitute. Meters better then Red Dot).Still less then 5% variation in exterme velocity and accurate to minute of 10" gong at 100 yards.
I used to use AA#5 but I would have numerous FTF after 50 rounds because of the combo of carbon, unburned powder and lube buildup.
I've been using Lars45's BAC and there has been absolutely NO leading and the barrel shines even around the unburned AA#5 powder.
Hope this helps.

[jsizemore]

I should have mentioned that I'm using the saeco #068 4c mold with straight WW.

[35remington]

jsize, if I'm reading you correctly this latest load of 4.5 grains used Promo rather than Red Dot, correct?

How do you like the Promo? I've been very tempted to get some for high volume 45 ACP shooting, but have yet to go there. The low price is attractive.

VHinch, I always thought a 200 SWC of good shape would be a better all around load than ball assuming it fed 100 percent. The Lee HG 68 copy I used in my velocity results has a meplat that's a little too small in my opinion, and jsizemore's Saeco 68 copy has a wider meplat that I think would add more smack to the load. Still and all, I shoot a lot of this Lee bullet, but I'm switching to another HG 68 copy more faithful to the original design.

On average, since I get better accuracy with the 68 pattern SWC than ball and my castboolits group buy HG 68 six cavity mould throws a better SWC than Lee's I am strongly tempted to use this Red Dot/HG pattern 200 SWC load as an all around load myself.

Oftentimes, on a trip back from the range a couple of the magazines are loaded with some leftover group buy HG SWC's "just in case" that are the last 14 or so rounds left from my day's shoot.

One advantage to using this SWC/Red Dot combination for your do it all load that I have not seen mentioned very often is a more certain assessment of their feed reliability.

I have never read (not saying it doesn't ever happen; just that it likely doesn't happen often enough) where a fellow has shot, say, two or five or seven thousand JHP's that he has settled on as a defense load, whether that be factory loaded HST, Hydra-Shok, Ranger or some store bought hollowpoint like Gold Dots or XTP's.

Almost nobody can afford that amount of shooting. Certainly not with the near 50 cent to one dollar a shot factory loads, nor with store bought hollowpoints like Gold Dot or XTP's that are now runnning near 30 bucks a hundred. With a home cast SWC of good shape like the HG 68 pattern an ordinary fellow can easily shoot thousands of them without breaking the bank, and he has a more statistically valid assessment of exactly how reliable they are. Most fellows just shoot 50 to 100 handloaded hollowpoints before proclaiming them to be reliable, or even, God forbid, only a 20 pack of the high dollar factory loaded defense ammo before deciding that's "good enough."

Not me. Shooting only a few rounds in reliability assessment makes me nervous. If I want to KNOW how reliable a bullet design is, the only way to do so is to shoot a lot of it. Given your SWC's inherent accuracy and presence of a good meplat, along with certain penetration combined with enough shooting use to absolutely know its reliability at low cost, you certainly won't get a dissenting opinion from me about your decision to go with this bullet and load.

[VHinch]

How do you like the Promo? I've been very tempted to get some for high volume 45 ACP shooting, but have yet to go there. The low price is attractive.

I've been working with it for a while now, and I like it a lot. As mentioned, the price is great, but in addition to that a lot of guys don't seem to know what it is so it doesn't jump on the shelf when panic hits. I can always find Promo locally, and plenty of it.



Not me. Shooting only a few rounds in reliability assessment makes me nervous. If I want to KNOW how reliable a bullet design is, the only way to do so is to shoot a lot of it.

Agreed. I won't carry a round until it's seen at minimum 250 rounds through the gun it's going in, and I really prefer that number to be 500. Then of course it's necessary to practice regularly with your carry load, and once you spread all that over a couple of guns you may carry, it can be a pretty hefty figure. Even more so than the cost of all this can be the hassle. Some guns like certain loads better than another, so now you're stocking quantities of multiple premium rounds and loading training rounds to duplicate those loads. In the quantities I shoot, this is all a huge headache, and working up one load to do it all starts making a lot of sense.

[jsizemore]

The reason I decided to try Promo was to load defense/hunting loads for shotgun. I started out with RedDot and liked how clean it burned in the shotguns. The skeet crowd shoots volume and swear by Rio primers and Promo powder. So I decided to give them a try and I can see why they like them. The Promo meters better then RedDot in my powder measures and sells for about $12.50/lb. Solves the search for 1 powder in shotgun and pistol.
It costs me about 10 cents/round to shoot the shotgun and 6 cents for the pistol. I like to shoot. These loads don't tear up the guns or my pocket.

[ShrinkMD]

I've been posting similar questions around the net, but this thread and forum appears perfect for it.

I was trying to load some warmer 200 gr LSWC, and I also have the Hornady and Lyman manuals. The bullets I have were made by Dardascastbullets.com, and they are .452 with reported Brinell hardness of 18-20. I think they use Magma molds, and they appear to be H&G 68 style.

I am confused. On page 382 of the Lyman manual, 49th edition, #452460 lists 3.5 to 5.6 for Bullseye, and bullet #452630 lists 4.9 to 6.0 for Bullseye. The data on the second one is similar to Hornady's data for their 200 gr SWC (4.6 to 6.3) The manual lists a seating depth of 1.235 or so for these. Does that sound about right? Then, Alliant's website lists a max of 4.6 of Bullseye with the Speer 200 LSWC.

I loaded some 5.2 gr bullseye, figuring I was well under the maximum loads of 6 to 6.3. Are these safe to shoot? I am using Magtech cases, Wolf Primers.

[Dale53]

The problem is not exactly simple. Bullet weight as well as seating depth play a big part in max pressures. In addition, the swaged bullets from Speer and Hornady (as an example) are soft lead and have limits as to how fast they can be driven (before leading and inaccuracy raises their ugly heads).

If you have the exact same bullet mould that Lyman uses, then the loading data should be close to correct. That is assuming that you use the correct alloy for the job at hand.

FWIW
Dale53

[dale2242]

My 1911 likes Lyman 452460 cast from #2 alloy at slightly over 800 fps.

4.5 gr Bulls Eye
4.5 gr 700X
7 gr WAP
The above loads Chrony within 5 fps average velocity from 812 fps to 817 fps.

[wiljen]

My favorite 200 SWC load has been the #68 or the Lee 200 over 6.9gr of SR 7625. All shots touching at 25 yards is not hard to do if I do my part with either of those loads.

[smith52]

My preferred .45 ACP target load is 4.5gr of Unique behind a 200gr LSWC. It has proven to be an accurate load at 25 yards in my 5" 1911's.

[morme@gte.net]

I'd like to work up a reasonably hot .45 ACP 200gr SWC load. I'm familiar with the Cooper load of 7.3(?) grains of Unique under a 215gr wadcutter, and if I recall that load should run up close to 1100 fps from a 5" barrel, but I'd like to tweak that one a tad.

I'll be using a 200gr cast SWC

Recently, I've been loading the same type bulk bullet with 4.5 grains of Red Dot. 850fps ish from the Alliant web site. I like plated bullets better just for health reasons these days. I haven't done load/accuracy workups like I have for my rifle loads, but I can hit the 12" steel at 100 yards 3 out of 4 times sitting at the rifle bench. (the hits on the freshly painted steel looked like a smiley face)

If I want a hot load, I use 10.6 grains of Blue Dot. A little over 1000fps.

The Hornady 3rd lists 4.9 grains Red Dot for 800fps. 5.2 for 850with a cast 200g bullet.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got two go to loads with a 200 swc. one is the classic load with bullseye. I usually start at 4.2 grains and go up and down a tenth or two to see where it shoots best in a particular gun. then other is with pr200 which is aa2. I run 4.4 grains for a start and vary it from there. It is probably my most used 45 powder. I got it cheap when it was available and still have 5 kegs left. It seems to give me as good of accuracy as bullseye and is a bit cleaner and a bit cheaper.

[skohler]

I recently loaded some 200gr SWC using 700x. I was given a rather large supply of it and want to work up a safe load. The powder is old and was advised to start at the lower end of the chart. I started with 4.5gr. and will chronograph it. I've always used modern vintage powders, this older stuff has me a little nervous.

Also loaded up some 150gr LRN in my 38 special with it, haven't shot it yet either. When you have 12lbs of a powder, I suspect most would try to make it work with what they reload!

[seabreeze133]

7 gr Unique w/200 gr H & G 68 and WLP primers gives 950 in the 1911's I have tried it in and is accurate. A little dirty.

5 gr WST is excellent n and clean.

DB

[mobullets]

I fired 1000's of .45 ACP rounds loaded with 5.1gr of WW231 over the HG68 bullet, mixed brass and CCI primers in club matches. It is an exceptionally accurate round from the Colt Combat Commander I overhauled for the purpose. It's very reliable when you keep a firm grasp of your weapon with stock springs. In all the rounds I fired the only malfunction I ever experienced was my fault. I had jammed my wrist and thumb at work and experienced ONE malfunction; limp wrist shooting can cause a rare stovepipe. That load and pistol combination accounted for many rabbits over the years.

[bluejacket77]

I always liked the 200 swc with 4.0-4.5 gr Bullseye, but a friend who always cleaned my clock on the range years ago got me to using a charge of 5.0 win 231 with Missouri Bullet Company's 200 gr swc, (the 12 bh bullet) I still use it for everything. Our clocks got synched after that lol. :-)

[bluejacket77]

that is why I settled on the 5.0 win 231 load, accurate, hits hard (my shooting buddy nuked my chrony with a .380, and I never replaced it)

[bluejacket77]

I used a lot of blue dot in .357, .44 mag, and 9mm cartridges, and was never less than happy with it. I killed my first deer with a charge of Blue dot under a bulk win 158 jhp in a 6" Dan Wesson .357 love that stuff for upper end work.

[bluejacket77]

great powder for .357 too.

[bluejacket77]

I've used a lot of unique, and have a cousin who is addicted to it from .38-30-06 (seriously) I never liked it much because I could never get past the poor metering characteristics

[TCLouis]

Anyone use HS7 or Win 571 for this purpose?

[WheelgunConvert]

Yeah, I’m tagging onto a really old thread, but someone please double check me on my bullseye information.
Lyman cast book #4 shows 4.9 - 6.0 gr bullseye for the Lyman version of H&G #68 200gr SWC with 6.0 being potentially most accurate. COAL listed @ 1.235.

It seems significantly more than most of the discussion in this conversation.

My cast is HB alloy.

[eagleotto]

Holy Crow! An 8 year resurrect?!
Also, my 3rd edition lists the same.

[Thumbcocker]

5.8 of WW231

[fast ronnie]

I've been using 6.5 grains of Unique under a 230 grain lrn. I got these about 30 years ago, but the guy no longer casts and does not have the molds anymore. Accuracy was fair from a 5" barrel 1911. Not great, but fair.

I just loaded a batch of Berry's plated 230 with the same charge of 6.5 grains on Unique. The accuracy was terrible to say the least, and I was severely embarrassed, as I was qualifying for a permit. I hadn't used this load before but had felt pretty confident as only having changed from lrn to berry's plated. I also had terrible powder fouling and a lot of unburnt powder so that I had a lot of powder flakes on the shooting bench in front of me.

I have purchased some factory ammo for the first time, as I didn't have time this week to load something else for tomorrow.
I will use those, but need to find what is wrong with my combination. I have 700x and 800x available, plus 2400, Bullseye and Red Dot.
Don't have any 231 which was recommended by a friend. I have always used a VERY slight crimp, just enough to take out the bell. I'm thinking about trying a heavier crimp to see what that does, however I just got done disassembling 250 rounds tonight. I've saved a couple of hundred to try the crimp, but can't before tomorrow. Thought some of you might have an insight.

[Ed_Shot]

+1 for Promo 4.5 gr. under a 200 gr boolit. Using Lyman 452630 I chrony 838 fps (avg) with my CZ 97B. Accurate and econiminal.


Chrono'd it this morning. First clip avg. velocity 835.6. Second was 862.
This is mixed headstamp brass that's been fired many times in this gun over the past 12 years. All powder dropped from a Harrell's powder measure. Practiced with my digital scale and found I got the most consistent powder drop with a double tap at the top of the stroke. extreme spread was about 39 fps in each clip and that was reflected in the accuracy of powder measure to meter Promo (Red Dot direct substitute. Meters better then Red Dot).Still less then 5% variation in exterme velocity and accurate to minute of 10" gong at 100 yards.
I used to use AA#5 but I would have numerous FTF after 50 rounds because of the combo of carbon, unburned powder and lube buildup.
I've been using Lars45's BAC and there has been absolutely NO leading and the barrel shines even around the unburned AA#5 powder.
Hope this helps.

[Wayne Smith]

Ronnie, it sounds like you need a decent crimp on that load to get pressures up to where all the powder will burn. Bullseye and Red Dot are more easily ignited and require less pressure.

[fast ronnie]

Thanks. I re-crimped a box of them tonight but will have to wait to get back to the range in a few days to check them.

I think I'm also going to load up some with 700x and 800x to see what that does.

[3leggedturtle]

Anyone use HS7 or Win 571 for this purpose?
Yep! Been using HS7 a lot in all my pistols. Especially in 45 auto with 200 and 255 I can get you the load data if you need it. Todd

[wv109323]

I have known people to use 700X for target loads in the .45acp. I don' know about max. Loads.

[Potsy]

I've run Lee and Miha's #68 clones over 6.3grn. H-Universal in my Kimber Eclipse the last several years. Bullets are WW or WW/shot with a little tin thrown in. I do cast, size to .452, heat treat at 400deg. for an hour and dunk them. My Kimber does like them heat treated better than not.
I've run it in all makes of brass but always with CCI 300's. It does clock right on 960fps, per Hogdon's data.

I finally got a chance to see how they did on "meat" a while back. A couple trapped hogs were the target. Range was 10'. One 275lb. piggy took one right between the eyes, bullet came out his throat. The other was a smaller 100lb unit. He was broadside and I popped him through the shoulders. Went clean through. It was a little pig and he was close, but I made sure I hit a lot of bone and it sill went through (he flopped over immediately, btw). Stuff like that makes me wonder why I'd need 230's..........

[Brassduck]

my question is are u sizing & lubing or Pcing?

[Potsy]

Sizing to .452, heat treating @ 400deg for an hour and water quenching, then lubing with 50/50.

[Old Coot]

The target load that my friends and I always used was 5.5 gr.Unique with the 200 gr. SWC bullet.We never needed more than that, and I occasionally used that load in the 45ACP to shoot at 100yd targets, and even the 300 yd gong. I hit it a couple of times too.
If you want a self defense or hunting load 5.9 to 6.2 gr Unique are appropriate. Just be sure that the bullets have not been sized down too far. It is a cast bullet and will size happily and safely on its way to the rifling. Undersized lead is the primary cause of leading in the bore. Good luck: Brodie

[edward hogan]

Hornady and Speer were selling their SWC 200s long before I began loading in 8th grade. Any of their books will have info. I always used Unique for non-magnum handgun loads. Just less worrisome than a double load of bullseye in the case.

Still hard for me to believe so many don't own even one loading manual. So much great info at your fingertips. So much to learn just from comparing data.

[Rich/WIS]

I have severe arthritis in my right wrist and load down as much as I can. My bullet is the Lee 452-200 SWC clone of the H&G 68. I modded the mold by milling the top down enough to remove the bevel base and it drops a 190gr flat base with range lead. Load is 3.1 grs of Bullseye and to get function I use a 10 pound recoil spring. Before I had issues with my wrist I used the 200 gr RCBS version with 4-4.5 grs of Bullseye and the factory spring (16# IIRC). I like Bullseye as it meters well and is cheap, usually less than $19 a pound. Figure my cost is 4 cents a pop and accuracy is as good as I am capable of (reliably hit 10 inch gong at 50 yards).

[Wayne Dobbs]

4.5 Bullseye is accurate, easy on the gun and shooter with either a 200 or 230 cast or plated projo.

[Budzilla 19]

45 ACP,4.7 grains of 700X , 200 grain RNFP Lee boolit, shoot wonderful. Powder coated of course!!!! Just my .02

[Divil]

3.9 gr. Of VV-N310 under a 200gr. H&G type SWC. Shot well in my Kimber Hero and Colt Commander.