Another Buckshot question or 2

[lead Foot]

After mastering the LEE slug in my shotgun I'm having a go at making my own buckshot. I bought a LEE round ball mould in .311 double. You can drop a lot in a short time but you use a lot per round. I have read a lot on the forum about loading buckshot but still a little in the cold. IS the cutting off of the petals - #1 to lose a bit of overall weight or #2 to fit more shot in. I have made my shot from range lead. It measures 45.5gr ave. Die .314. I worked out 10 balls = 1oz 11=1 1/8 12=1 1/4 aprox; I wound like hear from you guys on how much shot you use. I'll be using it on feral pigs. I don't mind a bit of recoil so I will slowly build up a warm load. Load data is hard to find but I do have load data for #OO. Should I load for weight?. Should I cut the petals off? Any other help or info will be appreciated. Thanks Guys.
:drinks:
Lead foot;

[klcarroll]

You cut the petals off to gain space: ......The object of the game is to get your buckshot pellets to "nest" in nice, even layers of three each. With a true 00Buck, at a nominal diameter of .330", that just isn't possible with any hull/shotcup combination I have ever seen.

At a real diameter of .314", you will probably find it necessary to trim: ....Unless you find a wad with REALLY thin petals.

Too tight a load will have an adverse affect on your pattern, and can result in elevated pressures due to increased sidewall loading.

You should be suspicious of any finished round that shows noticeable raised bumps on the outside of the shell due to pellet pressure.

Also keep in mind the amount of choke your particular weapon has! In general, buckshot patterns seem to "like" an IC choke, but anything more can deform pellets if they are too tightly "nested".

If you are "working" inside a shotcup, ....take a GOOD look at your recovered wads! Missing or mangled petals are telling you "TOO TIGHT!!"

When working up a load, remember that shotshells will not show warning signs like a metallic cartridge. Shotshells use relatively "fast" powders, and pressures can spike suddenly. Also keep in mind that in shotshells, the difference between a safe load and a questionable one may be as little as 2000 psi!! (Small change in the metallic cartridge world!)

Kent

[StarMetal]

If you are "working" inside a shotcup, ....take a GOOD look at your recovered wads! Missing or mangled petals are telling you "TOO TIGHT!!"



Kent[/quote]

That is true with new hulls, but if you're using hulls fired two or more times it may not be true. Once the hull is scorched inside from the powder burn it grips the wad with amazing strength. Load a new hull then dump the shot and try to pull the wad out. Comes out real easy. Now try that with a hull fired a few times...really hard to pull the wad out. I did lots of experimentation with the Lyman wasp waist slug that uses a finger wad. Wondered why I'd get groups that would cover leaf then go south real bad. It was the different in how many times my hulls were reloaded. On the good groups the wads found looked good. On the bad groups the wad were in various states of destruction.

Joe

[klcarroll]

@ StarMetal;

Good Point!!!!

With my Saiga, I rarely get as many as three reloads out of a hull; ....mainly because it tries to throw them into the next county! (LOL)

Still, ....perforations and serious cuts in the petals that are obviously due to excessive pellet pressure are telling you a story that you don't really want to hear.

Kent

[StarMetal]

@ StarMetal;

Good Point!!!!

With my Saiga, I rarely get as many as three reloads out of a hull; ....mainly because it tries to throw them into the next county! (LOL)

Still, ....perforations and serious cuts in the petals that are obviously due to excessive pellet pressure are telling you a story that you don't really want to hear.

Kent

How do you like your Saiga?

Joe

[klcarroll]

How do you like your Saiga?

Joe


I've only had the 12 gauge for about six months, ....but so far, I love it! (I had previously bought a .410, …..which “sold” me on the design!)

It has an 18" tube with a fixed Improved Cylinder choke: ....Originally, I was thinking of having it reamed to a true Cylinder bore, .....But right now, I don't see the need.

It has happily eaten every reload I have loaded into a clip (2 3/4 and 3 inch).

In the course of working up slug, buck, and round ball loads, I have fed it a lot of different loads, and I have NEVER had a jam!

Compared to my old "Absolute Favorite", the 1897 Winchester, the "felt recoil" with a given load is quite low, ...and fast, "telling" 2nd and 3rd shots are very easy.

Like all Kalashnikov pattern weapons, the field strip procedure is simple, and the "Parts Count" gratifyingly low!

Now, ...in the early production of these guns, the gas diversion from the barrel to the gas tube was accomplished with a pattern of two, three, or four small gas ports: ....My Saiga is a "four port" gun, .....and I have to suspect that this is the way to go; as I have NEVER had a FTE as reported by some of the earlier purchasers of this weapon.

I trust this weapon in the same way a paratrooper HAS to trust his parachute!!

I just feel a little weird liking a piece of Communist hardware this much!!:kidding:


Kent

[lead Foot]

Thanks guys I'm starting to get a handle on it now. Just a point- how important is chokes - a cylinder bore is more or less a straight pipe. A choke must have a bearing on patterning.I know with slugs every gun performs differently as far as chokes go.
Lead foot;

[klcarroll]

I have noticed that my 00Buck load seems to pattern a bit better out of my Saiga, with it's IC choke, than it does out of my cylinder bore pump gun.

.....But, ...a cylinder bore makes it a lot easier to settle on a slug or single round ball diameter.

So I guess I would suggest that if you were going to be shooting mainly buckshot loads, ......go with an IC choke: ......If you are going to be mainly shooting slugs or "pumkin balls", ...go with the cylinder bore, and accept a buckshot pattern that might be just a little "wider".

Kent

[diehard]

I have shot quite a bit of factory loaded buckshot, and I beleive that buckshot is more load specific than gun or choke specific. Some loads will give a best pattern from a full choke, while another brand from the same gun will pattern best from a modified choke. Still, a choke seems to make a big difference. All of my choked and variable choked shotguns seem to shoot tighter buckshot groups than my cylinder bore guns. Stands to reason. I beleive this is why Federal developed the "Flitecontrol" wad for its tactical LE ammo. Since this load would likely be shot in a cylinder bore shotgun, this wad clings to the shot longer out of the muzzle in order to give tighter patterns at the target. Seems to swork.


BTW... I love these threads. I have learned so much here at this site. I appreciate the fact that folks can try something and share and compare results in a friendly and supportive way. No bashing and trashing like on other sites.

I found this place because I have always had an inexplicable fascination with slugs. The slug shooters here know their stuff. Now I have a Skiesunlimited buckshot mold of my own on its way, and I'll be able to put into practice some of the thngs I've learned.

What a nice site!

[klcarroll]

I have shot quite a bit of factory loaded buckshot, and I beleive that buckshot is more load specific than gun or choke specific. Some loads will give a best pattern from a full choke, while another brand from the same gun will pattern best from a modified choke. Still, a choke seems to make a big difference........


Yes! ......I'll agree that my data on the Improved Cylinder choke is just a bit on the "anecdotal" side; .....as I have not had the opportunity to compare load performance out of a Saiga equipped with other chokes.

.....But that does give me an excuse to aquire another one with interchangeable chokes! ........"Honest Dear!! ......I need it for a research project!" (LOL)


Kent

[diehard]

:lol:


........"Honest Dear!! ......I need it for a research project!" (LOL)

You could tell her that you are buying a set of variable chokes......you don't have to mention that a new gun comes with it now do you?:lol:

[lead Foot]

Thanks guys for all your help. I loaded my first buckshot round today.[smilie=w: I found 9 balls in a wad with petals fit perfect and 12 balls in a wad without petals fit perfect too.So I tried them out. I used 2 grains less powder with the 9 balls. I sneaked up on a dead tree and let fly. The 9 balls was a bit on the light side. The 12 balls were a bit light too but one more grain should do it. It patterned were I aimed which was a good start. I was happy with the round type pattern. Now all I have to do is make it a bit smaller. This was all done with full chokes. I can now see the point in cylinder and IC chokes. I was hoping to use slugs as well so I might have to compromise. One of the recovered wads was a bit distorted mainly on the top. You can see the imprint of the balls - is this a problem. (Slightly torn). Might have to get a harder wad.
Lead foot;

[35remington]

Sometimes, just sometimes, a shotgun will surprise you.

I've a Mossberg 835 with Extra Full extended turkey choke tube sold with the gun. In using buckshot loads varying from oddball (9 ought pellets in three layers of three, buffer, Red Dot, WAA hulls and wads, approx 1 ounce) to rather full charge (15 00 buck in a three inch shell, 18 00 buck in a 3 1/2 inch shell) I was very surprised to find it threw 100 percent patterns at 40 yards, with most of the buck going into about 24 inches at that range.

With the relatively short 24 inch barrel, my friends call it the "riot gun" and it sure would make a good alley cleaner with buckshot.

Starmetal, did you ever try using motor mica on the wad or dusted with a Q tip on the roughened section inside the hull as improving groups by "slickening up" the hull again? I myself have never tried the wasp waisted slug designs yet but intend to. Meanwhile, the mica seems to help reduce petal tearing with the Lee slug IME by reducing friction and petal grabbing of the rough hull walls.

Not that getting the Lee slug to shoot is easy, mind you.