Help with this mould please

[burch]

I got this mould in a trade and can`t figure it out. It`s a Lyman 429421. The sprue plate won`t stay tightened and I have to tighten it back down every time I cast a bullet with it. Also, the base of the bullet is out of round. I`ve tried a couple different types of alloy mixes and can`t seem to get a good cast with it. The bullets on the bottom in the pics are the ones i`m having trouble with. The bullets on the top are from my other mould. Any ideas ?

Burch

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_44bullets005.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=44bullets005.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_44bullets004.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=44bullets004.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_44bullets002.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=44bullets002.jpg)

[462]

burch,

There should be a set screw, on the side of the mould, that prevents the sprue plate screw from backing out. It may be loose or missing.

What does the boolit base mic? Could be previous owner carelessly lapped it. Some moulds are just out of round, too. Unless it's grossly out of round, the sizing die should make it right.

[RayinNH]

burch, like 462 said check the set screw on the side of the mould. Tighten it or put one there if it's missing. It holds the sprue plate screw from moving.

Your alloy looks like it needs more heat, the bases are not flat, they are slighly rounded...Ray

[BruceB]

When replacing the setscrew on Lyman moulds, the thread size is 10-32. I MUCH prefer getting Allen-head (socket-type) screws for this job, because they can be tightened far more than a slotted-head screw.

I usually buy several of these screws at a time, and "file" the extras somewhere for future reference. Anytime a new (to me) Lyman mould comes into my ownership, I IMMEDIATELY replace the setscrew with a socket-head type. I generally get a length that protrudes from the side of the mould a bit, but I'm not sure just why!

[burch]

burch,

There should be a set screw, on the side of the mould, that prevents the sprue plate screw from backing out. It may be loose or missing.

What does the boolit base mic? Could be previous owner carelessly lapped it. Some moulds are just out of round, too. Unless it's grossly out of round, the sizing die should make it right.

I have`nt been sizing the old mould. It ran .430 to .431. This new mould is running .435 and up.

[burch]

burch, like 462 said check the set screw on the side of the mould. Tighten it or put one there if it's missing. It holds the sprue plate screw from moving.

Your alloy looks like it needs more heat, the bases are not flat, they are slighly rounded...Ray


I`m aware of the alloy needing to be hotter. I cast these up for pictures only. I`ve tried using different alloys up to temp with good flat bases but still have the out of round issue. I`m wondering if this can be fixed or not.

[garandsrus]

When the sprue plate is not flat to the mold, you can get bases that are out of round as there is extra boolit there that should not be there. I would try casting again after you lock the sprue pivot in place with the set screw.

John

[HeavyMetal]

I to suspect you are missing the set screw that locks the sprue plate screw in place.

I also think your boolit base issue is two fold: first the plate is loose and you getting just a touch of finning. Second your mold and alloy are to cold. If everything was hotter you'd have big nasty fins on those boolits!

Your boolits shown in the top of your photo are a gas check design the 429421 is not so you will see major difference's in the two boolit base's.

I will suggest you start from the ground up here. If this mold has a lock screw pull it and set it aside, then pull the sprue plate screw and set it aside as well.

Now take a very bright light and inspect the threaded holes for both these screws. If they look good inspect the top of the mold for galling or other "disfigurements" If you find the top of the mold is imperfect tape the two half's together and put some 400 grit paper on a piece of glass and lightly sand in a figure 8 pattern until the top of the mold is perfect!

Do the same to the bottom of the sprue plate and finish off by laying the sprue plate
on the mold and looking for air gaps. There should be no gaps.

Lube the pivot point with some antisize compound very lightly and reasymble. The sprue plate screw should allow the plate to move easily but not from it's own weight. Remember when you heat the mold up everything will get tighter and I've seen sprue plate screws broken from being overtightened when cold and then snapped of because they were to tight under heat!

Make sure tightening the screw does not cause the plate to tip up on one end!

If everything is good tighten the set screw and you should cast thousands of boolits with no trouble.

[fatnhappy]

I to suspect you are missing the set screw that locks the sprue plate screw in place.

I also think your boolit base issue is two fold: first the plate is loose and you getting just a touch of finning. Second your mold and alloy are to cold. If everything was hotter you'd have big nasty fins on those boolits!

Your boolits shown in the top of your photo are a gas check design the 429421 is not so you will see major difference's in the two boolit base's.

I will suggest you start from the ground up here. If this mold has a lock screw pull it and set it aside, then pull the sprue plate screw and set it aside as well.

Now take a very bright light and inspect the threaded holes for both these screws. If they look good inspect the top of the mold for galling or other "disfigurements" If you find the top of the mold is imperfect tape the two half's together and put some 400 grit paper on a piece of glass and lightly sand in a figure 8 pattern until the top of the mold is perfect!

Do the same to the bottom of the sprue plate and finish off by laying the sprue plate
on the mold and looking for air gaps. There should be no gaps.

Lube the pivot point with some antisize compound very lightly and reasymble. The sprue plate screw should allow the plate to move easily but not from it's own weight. Remember when you heat the mold up everything will get tighter and I've seen sprue plate screws broken from being overtightened when cold and then snapped of because they were to tight under heat!

Make sure tightening the screw does not cause the plate to tip up on one end!

If everything is good tighten the set screw and you should cast thousands of boolits with no trouble.


I have`nt been sizing the old mould. It ran .430 to .431. This new mould is running .435 and up.


I believe you've been given very good advice so far. Based on your statement above though, I would further suggest you look at your alignment pins and handles to see if either is preventing complete closure. .435 sounds unusually large for a stock lyman. Inconsistent closure can also cause vertical misalignment of the blocks.

[462]

A boolit dropping at .435", from a 429421, sounds like it has been lapped -- that is way too large for an un-modified mould. Are the drive bands, lube groove, and crimp groove sharp or rounded? Rounded edges are a result of lapping.

[burch]

I`ve taken everything apart and the set screw was loose so that`ll take care of the sprue plate issue. Now for the other issue: I put the two block halves together and with a flashlight I can see light between the two halves. Also, they rock back and forth like their warped. Can this be fixed using Heavymetals method of 400 grit. Also, what about the alignment pins can they be removed ?

[burch]

I to suspect you are missing the set screw that locks the sprue plate screw in place.

I also think your boolit base issue is two fold: first the plate is loose and you getting just a touch of finning. Second your mold and alloy are to cold. If everything was hotter you'd have big nasty fins on those boolits!

Your boolits shown in the top of your photo are a gas check design the 429421 is not so you will see major difference's in the two boolit base's.

I will suggest you start from the ground up here. If this mold has a lock screw pull it and set it aside, then pull the sprue plate screw and set it aside as well.

Now take a very bright light and inspect the threaded holes for both these screws. If they look good inspect the top of the mold for galling or other "disfigurements" If you find the top of the mold is imperfect tape the two half's together and put some 400 grit paper on a piece of glass and lightly sand in a figure 8 pattern until the top of the mold is perfect!

Do the same to the bottom of the sprue plate and finish off by laying the sprue plate
on the mold and looking for air gaps. There should be no gaps.

Lube the pivot point with some antisize compound very lightly and reasymble. The sprue plate screw should allow the plate to move easily but not from it's own weight. Remember when you heat the mold up everything will get tighter and I've seen sprue plate screws broken from being overtightened when cold and then snapped of because they were to tight under heat!

Make sure tightening the screw does not cause the plate to tip up on one end!

If everything is good tighten the set screw and you should cast thousands of boolits with no trouble.

What is " galling " ?

[mag44uk]

Galling in this instance would probably be a build up of lead smearing. Either on mould faces or sprue plate to top of mould. Lead smearing during casting can usually be quickly wiped off with a cotton cloth.
Its also possible that the top face(s) of the mould have become "grooved" through the sprue plate dragging badly across the top. Usually more prevalent on aluminium moulds.
HTH
Tony

[burch]

Here`s some pics. If certain detail is needed let me know and i`ll add `em on.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421012.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421012.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421011.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421011.jpg)

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421005.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421005.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421004.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421004.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421003.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421003.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421002.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421002.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421001.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421001.jpg)

[burch]

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421010.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421010.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421009.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421009.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421008.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421008.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421007.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421007.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/th_Lyman429421006.jpg (http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/?action=view&current=Lyman429421006.jpg)

[TAWILDCATT]

ug thats all in bad shape.take some work but can be fixed.

[sundog]

Here's what I would do.

First, what BruceB said about the set screw. If there is room for it a piece of brass under the set screw (chip of case or ball from a lamp chain). It makes a gripping cushion as not to damage the threads on t he sprue plate screw.

Next, about the closure. Check the alignment pin HOLES for cratering. Trim and chamfer as necessary. Check all block mating edges for burrs. Chamfering with a stone usually helps a lot. Check around the cavities for burrs - might need a loupe or magnifying glass for this. If any found, CAREFULLY remove with a hobby knife or some such without damaging the cavity. Check the handle races on the mould and make sure the do not bind, especially around the handle retaining screw holes. For whatever reason, sometimes a set of handles just does not work on a particular mould. Try any set of handles.

Lastly, if the sprue plate is the old style, light weight plate, replace it. Get a Lyman mould tune up kit with the heavier plate which also comes with a set of new screws.

Really good fill of bases, as you know, is critical. With a heavier sprue plate it can be run a little looser as it will 'sit' better on the blocks, provided of course that a square and level. Also, coloring the underside of the plate and the block tops with a pencil, or using Bull Plate, will help immeasurably.

It should not be difficult to bring that mould up to temp. In fact, moulds with large cavities cut close together, your problem should be opposite - keeping them from running too hot.

[burch]

When I pinch the two halves together I can rock them back and forth. How can I fix this or should I recheck it after I use the stone ?

[44man]

The top of that mold needs flattened, there is too much damage at the plate pivot that will ruin the fit of the plate to the top of the mold. That mold has been run with the screw way too tight and no lube.
Once it is flat and the bottom of the sprue plate lapped, adjust the screw so you do not see light between the plate and mold top. The tighter you make the screw the more light you will see so it has to have just the right tension.
You can try lapping the top of the blocks once you get a perfect fit with the pins, removing any burrs, etc, so the blocks fit together better. That needs to be done first.
Lapping can be a pain though and edges always cut first making the top of the mold less then flat. The best is to run an end mill across the top with the blocks set up perfect in a milling machine. A few thousandths will not hurt anything.
I have never made anything flat by lapping and only deburr that way. I have tried to get sprue plates flat too many times and always mill them to cure a problem. Marks left by an end mill are perfect air vents too, prevent galling and hold Bullplate or other mold prep very well. A plate runs SMOOTH on mill marks!

[burch]

The top of that mold needs flattened, there is too much damage at the plate pivot that will ruin the fit of the plate to the top of the mold. That mold has been run with the screw way too tight and no lube.
Once it is flat and the bottom of the sprue plate lapped, adjust the screw so you do not see light between the plate and mold top. The tighter you make the screw the more light you will see so it has to have just the right tension.
You can try lapping the top of the blocks once you get a perfect fit with the pins, removing any burrs, etc, so the blocks fit together better. That needs to be done first.
Lapping can be a pain though and edges always cut first making the top of the mold less then flat. The best is to run an end mill across the top with the blocks set up perfect in a milling machine. A few thousandths will not hurt anything.
I have never made anything flat by lapping and only deburr that way. I have tried to get sprue plates flat too many times and always mill them to cure a problem. Marks left by an end mill are perfect air vents too, prevent galling and hold Bullplate or other mold prep very well. A plate runs SMOOTH on mill marks!

By the top of the mould do you mean where the bullet base is ? How do I remove the pins so I can get a nice flat surface ?

[HeavyMetal]

That poor mold has been rode hard and put up wet!

The galling I reffered to is present and is all around the hole the pivot screw goes in.

You have a lot of work ahead of you!

Your first concern is getting the blocks to align with no rocking. Nothing else need be done if you can't cure that problem, the mold is done!

What I would do: drive out the pins with a brass drift, do not bang on the radius'd end if you can avoid it. Once the pins are out lay each block on a piece of glass and see where they are rocking. Use a strong magnifiying glass to look for burrs, lead smears, or anything else that might interfer with the blocks closing completely.

From what I can see in the photo's it does not look like the mold was dropped but check the outside of the blocks for dents and dings particularly on the corners. You may find a "raised" area that is causing the blocks to close wrong. That can be removed with a file, applied only to the high point itself!

I would be very cautious about sanding the mating surface's of the mold. You will make the mold out of round if you take to much off and you must take off equal amounts on each half of the mold! I'm hoping that with the pins out and a good cleaning the blocks will lay flat on the glass with no rocking. Be aware that a small air gap will go away as the mold heats up.

Your goal here is to get the mold to close properly.

Now you can look at the holes the alignment pins went in. Your looking for "wallowed" out openings and burrs. If the openings on one block seem very "Oval" a simple cure is to switch the pins and put them in the other block half.. If you put them in the "bad" holes the holes they came out of are like new and your off and running.

Once the block alignment is cured you can do something with the top of the mold.

Do not try to work around the stop pin! You must remove it from the mold. In the past my experience with this has been both easy and a PITA!

From here on out the mold must be worked on as one piece. I now tape the blocks together so I won't drop them, turn them upside down in a drill press vice or mill vise and drill a small hole ( 1/8 inch) through the bottom of the mold directly under the stop pin. This allows me to used a steel drift pin to drive the stop pin out through the top of the mold.

The pin is not damaged and I have the "stock" pin to replace when finished with the mold.

Now with the mold blocks still taped together you can start sanding the top of the blocks on sand paper on a piece of glass.

Be aware that you need not remove the galling competely! You just need to smooth out the high spots. I might take a file to the galled area first, in an attempt to make the area "level" with the rest of the mold top before I started sanding. When finished the top of the mold blocks need to be flat and square other wise you will have boolits that "lean" and thats not good!

If you know someone with a mill having then take a light pass or two across the top of the mold might be better in the long run!

Once this is done, and you've got the sprue plate cleaned up as well, you can lube this area with antisieze or bull plate lube and reasymble the mold.

Curious as to how this turns out for you, please post your results.

[burch]

I didn`t have 400 grit but I had 600 grit and used that on a piece of glass. I polished all mating surfaces all the way around the outside of the blocks except for the bullet base side because of the pin while keeping them together with the tape and holding pressure so not to move anything. I polished the inside of the bullet surface on the side without the pins. I`m not sure how to polish the side with the pins. I can see how to get the pins out with a drift punch but i`m scared to try it. After polishing the side without the pins the rocking is totally gone and it`s acting like it fits together better. I`d sure like to know how to polish the other half that has the pins. I have a stone that`ll fit between the pins but that`s not gonna get an overall flat surface. I`ve also polished the sprue plate bottom but I think i`ll take the advice and order a tune up kit as well and after all is done i`ll try casting with it until the kit gets here. The handles do seem to bind some and freedom of movement is limited when their on the blocks.

[burch]

That poor mold has been rode hard and put up wet!

The galling I reffered to is present and is all around the hole the pivot screw goes in.

You have a lot of work ahead of you!

Your first concern is getting the blocks to align with no rocking. Nothing else need be done if you can't cure that problem, the mold is done!

What I would do: drive out the pins with a brass drift, do not bang on the radius'd end if you can avoid it. Once the pins are out lay each block on a piece of glass and see where they are rocking. Use a strong magnifiying glass to look for burrs, lead smears, or anything else that might interfer with the blocks closing completely.

From what I can see in the photo's it does not look like the mold was dropped but check the outside of the blocks for dents and dings particularly on the corners. You may find a "raised" area that is causing the blocks to close wrong. That can be removed with a file, applied only to the high point itself!

I would be very cautious about sanding the mating surface's of the mold. You will make the mold out of round if you take to much off and you must take off equal amounts on each half of the mold! I'm hoping that with the pins out and a good cleaning the blocks will lay flat on the glass with no rocking. Be aware that a small air gap will go away as the mold heats up.

Your goal here is to get the mold to close properly.

Now you can look at the holes the alignment pins went in. Your looking for "wallowed" out openings and burrs. If the openings on one block seem very "Oval" a simple cure is to switch the pins and put them in the other block half.. If you put them in the "bad" holes the holes they came out of are like new and your off and running.

Once the block alignment is cured you can do something with the top of the mold.

Do not try to work around the stop pin! You must remove it from the mold. In the past my experience with this has been both easy and a PITA!

From here on out the mold must be worked on as one piece. I now tape the blocks together so I won't drop them, turn them upside down in a drill press vice or mill vise and drill a small hole ( 1/8 inch) through the bottom of the mold directly under the stop pin. This allows me to used a steel drift pin to drive the stop pin out through the top of the mold.

The pin is not damaged and I have the "stock" pin to replace when finished with the mold.

Now with the mold blocks still taped together you can start sanding the top of the blocks on sand paper on a piece of glass.

Be aware that you need not remove the galling competely! You just need to smooth out the high spots. I might take a file to the galled area first, in an attempt to make the area "level" with the rest of the mold top before I started sanding. When finished the top of the mold blocks need to be flat and square other wise you will have boolits that "lean" and thats not good!

If you know someone with a mill having then take a light pass or two across the top of the mold might be better in the long run!

Once this is done, and you've got the sprue plate cleaned up as well, you can lube this area with antisieze or bull plate lube and reasymble the mold.

Curious as to how this turns out for you, please post your results.

I`ll post results and some after pics of the mould and cast bullets.

[44man]

By the top of the mould do you mean where the bullet base is ? How do I remove the pins so I can get a nice flat surface ?
The sprue plate stop pin must be removed, not easy and you might want a new pin to replace it. Vise grips work most of the time. I have had to mill them off and drill the rest out.
Heat the mold by playing a propane torch all over it evenly and try to turn, pull the pin. Vise grips act as a heat sink keeping the pin cooler.
They usually come out.

[44man]

Drilling from the bottom works great too if you get it exact. Use a smaller bit then the pin is so the shoulder is still in the top hole.

[bootsnthejeep]

I have the same problem with my 429421! (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=64117)

I see the ridge on one side of the cavities in your pictures. That's just what mine looks like.

I just haven't remembered to bring my sandpaper to work so I can do it. Glad to hear it works.

[Bret4207]

The mating pins drive out from the rear. No biggy with a proper sized punch. If I were you I'd take care of the top side galling and cast some boolits. It may be good now.