A CLASSIC TARGET RIFLE BY CC JOHNSON: WHAT DO i HAVE???

[woodsman1st]

I just purchased a fine old single shot target rifle made by C. C. Johnson; a famous gunsmith of the 1940s & 50s. I can go into details of the rifle later if anyone is interested.

This single shot 22-250 has a Douglas barrel on a Single Shot Mauser action. I am using once fired Win brass (fired in a different firearm); that has been full length resized; the case length trimmed to reccomended length; cases have been primed, but no powder or bullets in them yet. The barrel is marked 219 Imp Zip; above that is marked 22-250; and the barrel is marked C. C. Johnson; a famous gunsmith of the 1940s and 50s.

When I try to chamber one of these empties, most of the brass goes in with a slight pressure felt when closing the bolt. maybe a little more than I think should be felt. However, about every third or fourth brass takes quite a bit of force to close the bolt; ALL CASES MEASURE EXACTLY THE SAME! I have put Remington 91/2 Large Rifle primers in the brass. Most of these primers are showing a slight mark on them after I close the bolt; the ones that are the hardest to close the bolt on show more of the mark on the primer from the bolt face. The primers are all seated as deep as the can go; and the primer pockets were cleaned out prior to putting in the primers. The bolt face appears normal.

While looking up C. C. Johnson online I discovered his outstanding reputation as a gunsmith holding very close tolerances in all of his work. Many records were broken at Camp Perry using his firearms. So what could the problem be; or do I really have a problem?

This 22-250 has a 24" Douglas Bull Barrel; drilled and tapped for a Unertyl Scope on an unbelievably customized stock. Obviously a bench rifle; but of what twist? I tried, unsuccessfully, to figure out the twist with a cleaning rod, and new brush with a patch wrapped around it. but the darn cleaning rod would not turn so I could make a count; any suggestions?

If anyone has more info on C. C. Johnson I sure would like to have it.

Regards
Ken

[calaloo]

C.C.Johnson's grandson frequents the assra.com web site. He has ,at least, some records and will provide you with what information he has. There is a job number under the forearm as well as other info I believe.

[leftiye]

Sounds like maybe your primers aren't seated uniformly, or else maybe the primer pockets themselves vary in depth. Seated primers in all of my brass are just a hair recessed into the pockets usually, or else flush. Shouldn't be any marks on them from chambering. Given the quality of the gun there shouldn't be any sticky-outies on the bolt face??

[218bee]

You stated all cases measure exactly the same....I'm wondering about rim thickness

[Uncle R.]

I'd make a chamber cast and do some measuring. The .22-250 was a wildcat at that time and there were no SAAMI standards. Different smiths may have had different ideas about the best chamber. I'd especially watch the chamber neck diameter. Some custom rifles are chambered with very tight necks and need neck turned brass for safety. If the neck area of the case is jamming in the chamber you have a potentially unsafe situation. Don't re-cut the chamber, turn your brass instead. That's what the tight neck was intended for. (If there is a tight neck.) It's a wildcat! Get some cerrosafe and make a chamber cast!
:roll:
And oh yeah - I am Sooooo envious - I'd guess you have a VERY fine rifle there.
All cases exactly the same? There's no such thing as exactly the same...
Uncle R.

[flounderman]

were the cases all fired from the same rifle and are you sure the full length die is tightened down far enough. some presses have some spring to them and if you don't allow, you are not getting complete sizing.

[KCSO]

Remember that prior to Remington picking it up 22-250 was not standard. You may have to have dies made. I bought a batch of chamber reamers from an old gunsmith and there were 2 different 22-250's there that were differnt dimensions.

[woodsman1st]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Not meaning to ignore the other responses by any means, I appreciate all of them; but I believe that Uncle R, callaloo, and KCSO are on the right track in remembering that the 22-250 was a wildcat until sometime around 1963 to 65; unfortunately (or fortunately cuz I'm still around) I am old enough to remember those good old days of the wildcats; and now only God knows how many slight variences were done to this caliber by the different gunsmiths prior to Remington stepping in and standardizing things.

And calaloo that's a great tip about the grandson of C. C. Johnson; and the job number under the forearm; I will be sure to follow up on that.

Uncle R. where can I get some cerrosafe; how do I make the chamber cast; and then what do I do with it when I have it. Also do you think smoking the case necks will help me determine if the case necks are jamming in the chamber?

Leftyie, I specifically mentioned those Remington primers because they are about 12+ years old now; maybe a little more. I still have them from when I quit reloading about 12 to 15 years ago; I reloaded from the early 50s to the mid to late 80s. While I really dont think it is likely, is there any chance that those old primers are of a slightly different size than today's; or that Winchester has changed the dimensions of their primer pockets even the tiniest little bit? The primers all still work just fine in other calibers. While seating the primers, with a hand seater, I did notice that several of them were a tad difficult to seat; noticably more so than the majority; Those may be the ones that are causing me grief now. I did clean out the primer pockets and the flash hole pretty good prior to installing the primers; plus trimming all the cases to spec. Obviously I am grasping at straws now; that's why I appreciate ALL of the answers so far; and I hope that more come in.

A brief history on this rifle. My son called my attention to it on gunbrokers.com; the seller had 26 very clear photos of this firearm and it was obvious that somebody had spent a lot of time and or money on it. On the receiver are the words "ORIGINAL HAENEL-LOREN"; some research on the internet disclosed that (by some sources) this rifle was a single shot target rifle that was made for the higher ups in the Nazi party and the aristocrats of the time. Photos of it in the military version shows a very high blue job on it. I had never heard of a single shot Mauser 98 before, and I was intrigued by the possibilitys; so I paid the "BUY IT NOW" price. I have not had the barrel off yet, but from what I see there are no proof marks of any kind; nor is there a serial number other than 4 didgets engraved that seem to be quite new. There is an ugly brand on the rear of the stock with a mans German 1st and last name and under that the word "STUTTGART". The rest of the info that I mentioned at the start of this thread I found on the barrel, and after I received it. The stock has an extremely high comb on it (an add-on piece of wood that was done by a master craftsman); with a groove cut out so the bolt can be removed; only a little bit of excellent checkering without a border around the pistol grip. I don't believe that the seller really knew what he had in this rifle; hell I dont know yet either; I only picked it up yesterday from my FFL dealer. The barrel is a Douglas and seems pristine; it has an adjustible trigger that is crisper than breaking glass; and probably more than I know at this point. Now if I can get it to shoot safely, and the groups are what I am hoping and planning on; this is one rifle that will stay in the family for a long long time. I believe I was very fortunate man; my son and grandsons are all drooling over it; but they are going to have to wait...for a long time I hope. Enough boasting; I was lucky! If anyone is interested I would be more than happy to post those pics that were on gunbrokers.com; but you will have to tell me how to do that; I am very far far away from being a computer nerd; more in the dummy class I believe.

Now if you kind people will answer the questions I just posted; and come up with some more ideas I sure would appreciate it; I will freely admit that I am in over my head in trying to figure all this out.

Again my thanks to all of you who replied to my questions.

Ken

[HeavyMetal]

Cerrosafe can be purchased at Brownell's.

I'd de prime some of those tough case's and try them again. If they chamber easily then it is high primers caused by un even pocket depth.

I started reaming primer pockets years ago because of this issue and noticed improvements in group size just in pistol ammo.

Considering the care this seems to have been put together with, and it's intended use, I'll bet the case's will fit fine after the primers are removed.

If this is the case you can get a large rifle primer pocket reamer from sinclairs.

If they are still tight smoke the necks and see if you got some rubbing. Case necks usually grow after firing, not because of brass flow, but because the expander plug pulls the neck forward when it is pulled out of the die.

It's the primise for Lee Collet neck sizing die. This die squeeze's the neck on a mandrel and does not force a piece of metal into and then back out of the case neck.

This is something I would also look into if you have a custom chamber, Lee will make a custom collet die set for 50 or so all you need to provide are two case's fired in your gun and a sample boolit and your good!

[Uncle R.]

Woodsman:
As Heavy metal said - cerrosafe can be purchased at Brownell's. To make the chamber cast you simply plug the bore maybe half an inch in front of the throat. A tight patch on a jag tip will work. Clamp/support the rifle muzzle down, melt the cerrosafe and pour it into the chamber. Be careful not to pour too much and fill the lug recesses - the slug won't come out if you do. No disaster - you simply melt it out. (Cerrosafe will melt at temperatures that won't hurt the action or barrel at all although you'll want to remove the stock first if you have to melt out a "poured too much" slug.) A small funnel with a very long (or offset)neck helps.
After letting the slug cool and shrink for 20-30 minutes you simply push it out with a cleaning rod and catch it in a soft rag. After waiting one hour the slug will have expanded to very near exactly the chamber dimensions and you can measure it as you wish - and compare to your sized cases to see where the problem lies. As for neck clearance - I'm thinking an absolute minimum of .002 for safety but more might be better. Talk to the bench rest fellas about that - they know a heck of a lot more about neck clearance and turned case necks than I do. Just realize that a case neck or case mouth that's pinched or wedged into a too tight or too short chamber can raise pressure - sometimes a lot.
A smoked case might show you where the interference is but it's not the easiest thing to read and interpret and it won't tell you how much clearance you have everywhere else - 1 thousandth or 80? I'd want a chamber cast. That half inch or so of casting that filled the barrel down to your tight patch will give you information on the throat size and shape too.
Good luck with your new treasure!
Uncle R.

[woodsman1st]

HeavyMetal and Uncle R.;
Thanks again for the great feedback. The suggestions that you both gave I will start on today; the remainder I will do as soon as I get some cerrosafe.
Today I am going to seperate the cases that caused some problems and reprime them after I check the depth of the primer pockets and measure the thickness of those old primers; I may even check all of the pockets and primers. I will also smoke the cases just to see if anything is amiss. (amiss? now where did that word come from? lol an old Sherlock Holmes movie I guess) I am also going to look for any numbers etc on the bottom of the barrel after I remove the stock as cataloo suggested.

While I have owned several Mauser 98s over the years; I have never owned one with a recoil lug; I've seen them but never owned one before; I thought they were only on the big bores with heavy recoil; but my 35 Whelan, on a Mauser 98 by PO Ackly, didn't have one I would think that in removing the stock the recoil lug would have to be removed first; is this correct? Should I drive it out from left to right with a punch like pins? Or is there a different/better way to do this?

After I find the numbers on the bottom of the barrel I will send that info to the assra.com website as cataloo suggested.

It's kinda funny in a way; it looks like I have tons of work to do, and several new things to learn, before I can ever pop a cap on this new toy. But far from being discouraged, or annoyed by all this, it just adds to the enjoyment of it all; I guess that's the "nut" part of being a "gunnut". The best part of it all is how I can become all excited about a new (to me) firearm at 74 years old.

Have a great weekend everyone.
Ken

[woodsman1st]

Regarding the recoil lug; not problem the barrel came right off.

Calaloo; you were absolutely correct I did find a job number and other information under the forearm just as you said.

Ken

[JSH]

You mentioned you were using once fired brass. Unless it was fired in that rifle I would bet it still won't fit as it should, full length sized or not. The web area will have enough spring to it that a FL won't size it enough. A small base sizer die may fix it. If tolerence are as close as it sounds you may have some work ahead of you as far as case prep. A couple of new virgin cases may answer your questions.
I am no youngster, but have done my fair share of reading and a lot of listening, rather than blabbing when I was a kid. A closed mouth gathers no foot,lol. I am going to take a shot at the 22-250 marking. The 22-250 was called a lot in the early days, but from my past readings and listenings, very very seldom was it called a 22-250. I would suspect the rechamber from the early Zipper to the 22-250, a try at modernizing it.
From what you describe I would prefer the zipper chambering to the 22-250.
I would really like to see some pics. Sounds like a very interesting project. Have fun.
Jeff

[woodsman1st]

Hi Jeff;

I appreciate your thoughts.

From the brass viewpoint even though it might be a tad more work bringing the 30/30 down to a 22, and then the neck work, I kind of agree with you; thutty thutty brass would sure be easier to come by.

I got all the info off the rifle today; including the work order number on the bottom of the barrel just like Calaloo said it would be. I also found stamped numbers on the stock in a couple of places. Also in a very small circle about 1/4" diameter, in letters so small I had to use a 30X glass, were the words in capital letters "EBLAN STUTTGART". I put that into my computer and found a family in Stuttgart that goes back to the 1700s, with the name"EBLAN"; also on another site with the same name, a 22 LR single shot rifle with an absolutely fantastic Circasian Walnut stock selling for $2,800.00. Hell researching this rifle is more fun than shooting it; of course that's just a guess since I am a ways from shooting it
yet. lol

Today my son, who is caught up in this now, called a couple of gunsmiths in the Boise area for advice. It didn't sound like they knew as much as the guys on this thread that have been giving me advice; I swear to you one of them even told my son that the "cheapest and easiest way to solve this is to buy a box of factory ammo and shoot it; that should tell him what he has". I called him up to verify what my son said, and he repeated it to me; I just thanked him and hung up. I guess as long as someone can spell the word, anybody can call themselves a "Gunsmarth". lol Unbelievable!

I will post the pics of the rifle as soon as I figure out how to do it. When it comes to computers I don't think my family tree has any forks in it.

Thanks for your interest.
Ken

[Freightman]

Yesterday I couldn't even spell "GunSmith" today I are one", anyone can call themselves a gun smith but you have to preform to be recognized as one, "the proof is in the pudding"

[atr]

Ken,
I have measured primer thickness and there is a variation between brands and the Remington's were usually the thickest. Perhaps a switch to a different primer (CCI's were the least thick), would help.
just a thought
art

another thought,,,,,if the tolerences are that tight, you may have to use a SB (small base) resizing die on the brass you are now using, which I understand was fired in another gun chamber and then full lenght resized

[woodsman1st]

atr;
That is absolutely great news to hear regarding primer thickness; I will take the most troublesome cases and change them asap today over to CCI; and if that makes the difference, I will switch them all.

I will also order a SB resizing die today; I wasn't even aware of their existance.

It is truly amazing how everyone is contributing what they know to help solve this puzzle. Without all this help I would be months, perhaps even a year or more, in putting it all together. A great bunch of guys!

Thanks for the information atr
Ken

[woodsman1st]

I just created a public photo album for anyone that would like to see my new "TOY"; the Mauser that I have been asking all the questions about. I would have posted a couple of pics here if I could have figuered out how to do it.

I also just sent an email to J. C. Johnson; Grandson of C. C. Johnson, the man that created my Mauser. The one that my youngest Grandson calls: "GRAMPA'S UGLY GUN"; and it seems that names going to stick; even my adult kids call it that now.
Hopefully Mr Johnson will find time to supply me with the history of my Mauser. If he does I will post it if anyone cares to see it.

Ken

[HeavyMetal]

I think there's posting instructions in the classic and stickies area

[Parson]

I have a "78" Sharps that was reworked by C. C. Johnson. His grandson was very helpful with just about everything except identy of the barrel. Mine is in 219 Improved Zipper. I am the third owner. The man I bought it from knew the original owner, shot with him and bought it from his estate. He claims both of them shot several thousand rounds each through it and it will still shot below an inch most days. Has the original Weaver 10X

[woodsman1st]

That's encouraging to hear Parson; I hope he does as well for me; and that mine shoots as well as yours.
How long did it take for him to get back to you with the information?

Ken

[Rockydog]

I just created a public photo album for anyone that would like to see my new "TOY"; the Mauser that I have been asking all the questions about. I would have posted a couple of pics here if I could have figuered out how to do it. Ken

Ken, Is there a link to the photo album? I'd like to see this gun. RD

[woodsman1st]

Hi Rockydog;
Well I created the photo album right here in Cast Boolits, took quite a while to figure out how; I'm really a dumbazz when it comes to computers. I know I did it succesfully; but after it was done I dont know how to find it now. I thought it would show up here so that anyone interested could look at it; other than being here in Cast Boolits someplace, I have no idea where. Man that's embarressing to write down. I am going to try to find it this morning and see if I can move it here; but as a link of some kind, rather than clutter up everything with all the pics. I wish one of my grandkids was here to do it for me while they giggle their butts off at me cuz I dont know how.
Thanks for your interest Rockydog
Ken

[Parson]

That's encouraging to hear Parson; I hope he does as well for me; and that mine shoots as well as yours.
How long did it take for him to get back to you with the information?

Ken

Its been awhile since he helped out but seems like less than a week. If memory serve me correct, he was on the single shot forum one night and I was able to contact him direct from there. I may have his contact information but not sure where and I will be gone for a week, but if needed I will try to find it for you if needed

[woodsman1st]

Thanks for the offer Parson; but another poster in here already gave me his email addy. I sent him an email yesterday, and he has already sent a reply with partial info, telling me he will send me the rest of the info soon.
Now that you have had your Sharps for a while how do you like it? Is the 30/30 brass much of a pain to resize? The 219 zip is one that has interested me for quite a while now; I just may keep an eye open for one, or for something I can convert.
Ken

[Rockydog]

Ken, I clicked on All Albums on the toolbar at the top of this page. Guess who has the first album? That's not ugly. Actually a good lesson in "form follows function." RD

[woodsman1st]

Rockydog;
I have 3 grandsons here in Idaho; and the youngest one, Beau Jr or Bobo, turns 5 this year. His dad, my son, has quite a few rifles and shotguns (an avid Mauser man) so Bobo is pretty sophisticated regarding firearms for a 5 year old; when he first saw my Mauser he said "Grampa, that's Ugly"; and the name has stuck. Whenever anyone, including me now, refers to my new Mauser it's called the Ugly Gun. I guess it's no worse than calling it "Old Betsy" or whatever. I get a kick out of it.
I just bought a 6X24-50 scope for it online today. Once I get it mounted I feel pretty sure I am going to have to lower that comb a little to match the scope and fit my face better; it did have a Unertyl (sp?) scope with some rather high mounts on it that did not come with it. And I actually dont mind that; I have built several stocks over the years and checkered each one of them; I enjoy the work. I am very slow but the stocks come out good. When you actually hold this stock in your hands in good light, it seems like a doggone nice piece of wood (Walnut I believe) underneath all the years of oil and grime. While I would like to checker the forearm on this; I can't think of a pattern that would match the checkering that's on the pistol grip;and Im not artistic enough to think of one; so I probably won't add any checkering on it. But I probably will refinish the wood.

regards
Ken

[woodsman1st]

REGARDING MY "UGLY GUN"; THE 22-250

Two parts of my problems being able to chamber a resized brass case into my rifle have been solved.

I have been using Hornady dies for my 22-250. I have always used RCBS dies in the past; so prior to using these new (to me) Hornady dies I read the directions.

STEP #1 states "RAISE THE PRESS RAM TO IT'S HIGHEST POSITION WITHOUT CAMMING OVER".
As I have stated previously, I reloaded my own ammo from approximately the mid 1950s to the mid to late 80s; so i do have quite a bit of past experience. However many things have changed over the years and I am still learning these "new things" and remembering what I have forgotten. What I had used in the past was a HOLLYWOOD TURRET PRESS, AN RCBS JR PRESS, AND RCBS DIES. I dont believe that Hornady even made dies in the years when I was reloading previously; but I honestly dont remember and that doesn't really matter. Anyway I was unclear what the instructions meant by raising the ram without camming over; so i phoned Hornady for an explanation. The man I talked to explained that some presses now, unlike my Hollywood turret press or my RCBS Jr, the ram will actually cam over the top and drop down a tad; and they want the die adjusted prior to camming over.

So my next question was: "In adjusting an RCBS FL resizing die you are supposed to raise the ram, screw in the die until it touches the shell holder head on the ram, then back off the ram a little and screw the resizing die down 1/4 turn so that your press will cam over a little, thus ensuring the case is full length resized; do I do the same thing with your Hornady dies? He told me "NO, you never cam over with Hornady dies. I was a little concerned because this was a new concept to me; not camming over to full length resize a case; so i repeated the question; carefully and in a little more detail. He became slightly irritated with me and my apparent inability to understand something so simple; and repeated once more; "WITH HORNADY DIES YOU ARE NEVER TO CAM OVER!". Then added rather proudly "our dies have newer features than the RCBS that you are accustomed to so the directions are bound to be different than theirs".

Perhaps he was busy or having a bad day; but he was abrupt; and I feel that he should have taken more time with his explanation to me. So that was part of the problem in my not being able to chamber brass into my 22-250; BUT ONLY PART OF THE PROBLEM!

Here is the other part of the problem.
STEP #2 states: "Thread the full-length die into the press until the base touches the shell holder head"; then goes on to tell you to tighten the lock ring and adjust the expander/decap assembly.

NOWHERE IN THESE INSTRUCTIONS DOES IT STATE TO CAM OVER LIKE I HAVE BEEN DOING WITH MY RCBS DIES IN YEARS PAST; AND AS THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME WITH RCBS DIES TELL YOU TO DO.

So yesterday I readjusted my Hornady dies a lot more carefully; thinking perhaps I had been careless in my previous attempt. Allthough I am a nut when it comes to taking care with every step regarding reloading.
With this newly adjusted resizing die I full length resized 6 of the cases that I could not chamber in my rifle. I still could not chamber them into my rifle using quite a bit of force. Perplexed, I finally decided the hell with it, and I reset the resizing die the way I normally do with RCBS dies; raising the ram, screwing in the die until it touches the shell holder, lowering the ram, turning the die in approximately 1/4 turn, and then checking to be sure that I was caming over just a little. I then full length resized the 6 cases that would not chamber; plus I full length resized another set of 6 cases that I could not chamber into my rifle. Well guess what; all 12 cases full length resized by camming over per RCBS instructions now chambered perfectly without the slightest bit of difficulty. I then resized all 100 of my once fired brass, and every one of them chamber without any undue force needed at all.

So what is going on here? If I follow both the written directions that came with my Hornady dies, and the verbal directions that I was given by the Hornady expert, my cases do NOT GET FULL LENGTH RESIZED so that i can chamber these once fired brass cases. But if I cam over the Hornady dies as RCBS instructions say to do, my once fired brass chambers beautifully.

I have the written directions that came with the Hornady dies right in front of me as I type this; and those were exact quotes from these written instructions that I posted above. And while the verbal instructions may not be "exact quotes" from the Hornady expert, they are doggone close to being exact quotes.

One other thing; with these newly resized brass cases I marked the primers with a marking pen, and while still wet, I chambered the rounds; approximately 80% of them came out without any signs of the primers being touched by the bolt face; and 20% had slight smudging (from the bolt face) of the wet ink from the marking pen.

So while I could have just stated that my cases were not full length resized, and that's why they would not chamber; I decided to post all of the above to see what those of you who so kindly have been trying to help me had to say. I am really surprised that Hornady would give directions like I was given verbally, and are written and included with my dies.

Any ideas or opinions on what I have posted?

I am still going to do a chamber cast as was suggested in the interest of safety.

I would really like to read the thoughts and opinions on what I have written above from those who were so helpfull to me at the beginning of this thread. And my thanks to all of you.

I received a reply from J. C. Johnson, the Grandson of the gunsmith (riflesmith as he was referred to back then); on the history of my 22-250 and the work done on it by C. C. Johnson,
the original gunsmith. I have written the Grandson, J. C. Johnson, expressing my gratitude for taking the time to supply me with this information. Here, I am publically stating my gratitude for it. I think this service he is doing for those of us who own a firearm worked on by his Grandfather is really remarkable. My thanks again to J. C. Johnson for going out of his way for a stranger.

I will make a seperate posting on the history of this rifle that was supplied to me; and what I have discovered about the original owner, and the other people that owned these single shot Mauser Target rifles that lived back in the late 1930's and early 1940's in Austria and Nazi Germany. Not everyone (if anyone) will be interested.

[HeavyMetal]

Now that you have the sizing "licked" Go ahead and make that chamber casting as suggested.

THe odds are god you will fing the chamber very close to "stock" 22-250 specs'! If they are slightly different a die set can be made, Lee will do the collet die set for 50 bucks. all you'll need to supply are two fired case's and a boolit of choice!

ONce you determine that the spec are close but not right on you can "fireform" several case's with a start load for the 22-250.

The fired case's will take the shape of the chamber and give the die makers accurate spec's for your chamber!

As to the slight smudge on the primer from the bolt face? I think you did well getting the die set right the "smudge" might be just a hint of case difference and I'd not worry about it until I did a chamber casting and knew more about what I had!

Then and only then would I seek to make additional, if any, adjustments to brass or dies!

[Rockydog]

Woodsman, I had just the opposite experiencewith Hornady dies. Being the know it all that I am I proceeded to set mine to cam over just like all the rest of the dies in the world. I was loading 6mm TCU and was resizing .223 cases for fireforming in my TC Contender. I sized 200 once fired cases and loaded up half of them. I was on about my 10th shot at the range when I experienced a total head separation. When I inspected my other fired cases all had a bright ring around the case at the top of the head. Evidence of case stretching. By adjusting the die to cam over I had set the shoulder back too far and ruined 200 cases. I was able to at least salvage them for .223 use by renecking the very end of the case back to .223 leaving a false shoulder to bump against the chamber neck with a crush fit in my .223 bolt gun. Firing returns them to .223 specs. When I set the die as instructed the shoulder fits just right. I actually have to "snap" the contender shut to make it latch on some cases.
If your gun was cut with a tight chamber you may find this ammo, formed with the die adjusted as you have it, functions very well. Please be aware though that this ammo could fit very sloppy in a factory chamber and lead to head separations when fired in a standard .22-250. Wildcat guns (which yours evidently was when built) are really neat and fun to shoot but bring their own set of challenges. BTW, Whatever the kids call it, it's still not ugly. RD

[woodsman1st]

Hiya Rockydog;
Well I'll start with your ending comment first because it made me laugh; and laughs are good for the soul. At first glance I was a tad unsure of the radical (to my eyes) comb; I understood the need for it due to the scope that was on it; but considered the possibility of redoing it a little so that it did not appear quite so radical. I have now grown acustomed to it and will only make changes IF they are actually necessary. I orderd a 6X24 scope with a 50mm objective lens that should (hopefully) be here this coming Monday; that is what will determine if I need to modify the stock any. At present it seems as though the stock is preventing me from getting in line with the barrel so that it comes up naturally; but I won't really know until my scope is mounted on it. I don't plan on changing it just to be changing it, or because I want to modify the looks; and changes will be only what is necessary so that the rifle comes up naturally with my eye and scope in line the way they should be. I do have to do a little repair where the bolt comes back into the comb due to nicks and such; I may relieve it a tad more to prevent future nicks and scrapes. Overall I like the stock the way it is; allthough I may refinish it either partially to get rid of years of grime and oil; or completely if i detect some really good grain and figure to the wood; and I believe that I do at this point.
I don't think it is "ugly" either; but that name is here to stay now; even my adult daughters down in Arizona said "we are bringing you a surprise gift for your ugly gun when we come up Dad; so dont buy anything for it". They will be here in Aug. I am guessing a rifle case for it. The name is here to stay now; so I may as will like it.

Now Rockydog, what was it like when you had your case head seperation? I have never had one. I have seen the cases afterwards; and while working at Weatherby's and Pachmayer's as a young man I saw several rather spectacular results from rifles & handguns that had been blown all to hell and back; and more that a few bulged shotgun barrels, and shotgun muzzles that looked like peeled bannanas; but I have been fortunate so far (as I knock on wood while typing that last remark) and not experienced anything disasterous yet (knocking once more lol).
I am very concerned about the headspace on this rifle for the reasons you just mentioned; that's why I still plan on making a cast of the chamber. I really think everything would be ok now that the cases seem to chamber properly; but I still have that niggling little worry worm eating away at me.
I remember my first wildcat; a 35 Whelan back in the early 50s; I had that same little niggling worm eating away at me (fear?) over pulling the trigger on an unknown entity. So I bravely tied my rifle to a tree and pulled the trigger with a 40' string attached. Everything was fine; if you don't count the scratches on the forearm of my custom stock from the bark of the tree. My best friend of many many years still laughs at me over that one. Oh well; I've done dumber things...many of them.

HeavyMetal;
Thanks for the additonal information. I will follow all that you have suggested; since I have never made a chamber cast before, I am very interested in doing that anyway. Really curious as to what it will look like.

Thanks to you both for your time and interest.
Ken
Regarding my ammo not fitting in a factory chamber, I appreciate the heads up; but normally my ammo doesn't fit well in other rifles anyway; because I seat the bullets with the lands of my rifle and then a few thousands more with the seating die.