.40-65 WCF Hand seating the bullets?

[Dragoon 45]

I am new to the forum and have some questions. I have reloaded for a while but recently started using Holy Black and cast bullets. Reloading both .40-65 and .45-70.

Which is better, finger seating the bullets in fire formed cases or resizing the neck and expanding then using a seater die?

How much compression should be used on the powder? Currently I am compressing about .3" in .40-65 and getting less than 18 fps varience in MV and average MV of 1153 fps.

I so far like the results I have gotten using the .408 Snover 410 grain from a Lyman mould, but have found I can seat the bullet out no farther than the 1st grease groove. Is this normal for a Cimarron High Wall in .40-65?

Also what are your opinions on the Pedersoli Goodwin Tang sight?

Thank you.

[NickSS]

I have tried hand seating bullets in a 45-70 and never got accuracy as good as I do with a neck sized case and a compressed powder charge. I do have an acquaintance who breach seats his bullets and uses a case full of powder with a card wad over the powder. This load is not compressed and he gets great looking targets with it.

[cajun shooter]

Dragoon 45, Welcome to the sight. Although you can learn a lot from the forum members on this site, I still believe in books. The BP cartridge reloading Primer book by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe, the Shooting of Buffalo Rifles by Mike are good ones to have. You also might want to check out this for a good read Introduction To Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Loading by Chuck Raithel. I send the last one to every one who is just starting wioth the BP loading.

[Doc Highwall]

You can also check out the Shiloh Rifle forum, lots of holy black and technique's over there.

[Boz330]

Welcome Dragoon 45. I have several 40-65s and have tried both methods, and I get better groups with a little neck tension (.001) to be exact. On the other hand my 38-55 likes no tension. You will find that each rifle has it's own combination that shoots best. As Cajun pointed out getting the basics down first gives you something to build on. The Garbe, Venturino book has a lot of good info but is a little dated now. Mike recomends Federal magnum primers to start and I don't know anybody using them now. I tried them and get much better groups from regular rifle primers and now I'm using Remington Lg Pistol primers with 2 newsprint wads over the primer. The big thing is don't change more than one thing at a time when you are experimenting.
If you want a boolit that leaves more case capacity you will almost certainly have to go with a custom or semi custom mould. I am using a Steeve Brooks 400gr mould that only takes up .260 of case. This allows me to get 71gr of 2F Swiss in that case with .125 of compression. I'm still playing with different combinations with this boolit. As you get to messing with different combinations and develope your techniques you will get even better velocity spreads than 18fps.

Bob

[looseprojectile]

I have the Cimarron/Uberti high wall. It has no bullet seat in the chamber. Rifling starts at the end of the case. I got the 300 grain RCBS mould. I am going to have to get a 400 grain boolit with a bore ride nose to fit the .400 bore. Grooves are .408, size to .410.
I may not be typical but this is the most tempermental gun I have ever tried to work a load up for. My loads with this boolit look like they would work well in a lever action gun,[short]. No joy. I do not use the holy black, yet. I have tried everything from hand seating to a heavy crimp and haven't hit the grail yet. I think the factory looked at a chamber in a Winchester and made the chamber like that. So many guns so little time. Everyone has a different idea on chambers. I may throat it.
I put a Lyman tang sight on mine and it works fine for hunting. If you are going to compete in BPCR shoots, it seems the more you spend for a sight the more you will like it. I believe the barrel is a little light for competetion.

Life is good

[Don McDowell]

Dragoon 45 just to follow up and confirm what Boz wrote, you'll need to experiment a bit to find what your rifle really likes. One thing I can tell you is most of the 40-65's I'm aquainted with preferr 55-60 Goex 3f express, and bullets sized .410.

45-70 is the same deal with the neck tension, but a .459 sized bullet with 68-70 grs of Goex Cartridge powder ,sparked by a regular large rifle primer, and I've even got some real good results with large pistol primers.
65 grs of Grafs 2f and a 530 gr bullet lit off with a large pistol magnum primer has been finding great favor in one of my 45-70's of late also.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks for the replies. I have most of the books mentioned.

[wills]

http://www.cisternpublishing.org/Picfile/black_powder_silhouttte.jpg

[montana_charlie]

Also what are your opinions on the Pedersoli Goodwin Tang sight?
There is an advantage to having the staff offset to allow access for wiping the bore, but flexible wiping rods work well with the other type of sights.

I don't think I would be comfortable with having the staff right in front of my nose while shooting.

The design allows a large amount of windage adjustment, but Soule sights do that, too.

CM

[Dragoon 45]

I have a Soule Tang on my Sharps and the Goodwin on my High Wall. I have found that the vernier windage scale is easier to read on the Goodwin, being that it is on the crossbar instead of at the bottom on the Soule. I also like the ability to lock the staff at a particular angle with the Goodwin, whereas I can't do that with the Soule.

Haven't shot either sight past 200yds yet, so my opinion may change.

I used to do a lot of competition shooting in the military, but am finding things are a lot different on the other side of things.


There is an advantage to having the staff offset to allow access for wiping the bore, but flexible wiping rods work well with the other type of sights.

I don't think I would be comfortable with having the staff right in front of my nose while shooting.

The design allows a large amount of windage adjustment, but Soule sights do that, too.

CM